Prayer of Renunciation

zone · Apr 3, 2013

we can get down to brass tacks on Miscellaneous tomorrow, or whenever i get around to it.
i'll be sure to let you know.

first thing we'll have to do is learn to decode and decipher the NewSpeak

this will involve a history lesson.

we will wear our armour, since the fiery darts are even now being prepared.
fortunately for me, and unfortunately for you....they have no effect on me

the use of them is what will be the undoing of it all.

it`s really easy when you know how it was done.

we will name names and we will back up every single thing we say with factual, verified information.

no Wikipedia.

bye then.

damombomb · Apr 3, 2013

Jesus said you will love one and hate the other or you can't serve two masters. If you are sinning your serving that master, if you are following Jesus and walking in the spirit, you are following him. The Holy Spirit cant dwell were
the enemy is, both are not going to dwell in one house.If your eye be single then it is single, if it be dark then how dark Jesus said you can only serve one master. when you serve the Lord he will lead you into all truth, out of darkness
into his light. Yes i have seen it all, from works of the flesh to people "saying" they are christians and walking in darkness. it boils down to his word who are you gonna serve?

1still_waters · Apr 3, 2013

cfultz3 said:

No he's clear on what he means.

Link--->http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/61157-prayer-renunciation-4.html#post976629

He believes believers can be BOUND by the devil.
He believes believers can be MORE THAN oppressed.

He's very clear.

djness · Apr 3, 2013

Therapon said:

I'm pretty certain the bible took place in the real world.

eternally-gratefull · Apr 3, 2013

1still_waters said:

I am still trying to figure out how a demon can do two things.

1. Over power the HS and take over a body already possessed by the HS
2. Force the HS to leave a person, causing them to lose eternal seal of the spirit..

since when can a fallen angel overpower God himself?

Abiding · Apr 3, 2013

eternally-gratefull said:

It cant happen, but people who write the deliverance books dont hold to the clear scriptures.
And because of that cant judge biblically. So in that case a understanding of the gospel
or a profession of it to them is the same as being bornagain which it isnt. Profession isnt all
it takes to have possession of the new birth. Thats how we would know. If they are possessed
then they are not bornagain....

But when you leave scripture with the glib comment that all isnt in scripture is an attitude of those
who will be deceived, because the bible claims inside that we have all we need for living in the scriptures.
But the Holyspirit expected us to be reasonable people and not expect us to need instructions for
being somewhere or doing something we were not asked to do. Therepists nationwide are trying to help
the flood of people who are trying to get over the experiences they had in the new wave of doctrine
called "deliverance ministries". Ive councilled 2 in CC just this last year.

eternally-gratefull · Apr 3, 2013

Abiding said:

It cant happen, but people who write the deliverance books dont hold to the clear scriptures.
And because of that cant judge biblically. So in that case a understanding of the gospel
or a profession of it to them is the same as being bornagain which it isnt. Profession isnt all
it takes to have possession of the new birth. Thats how we would know. If they are possessed
then they are not bornagain....

But when you leave scripture with the glib comment that all isnt in scripture is an attitude of those
who will be deceived, because the bible claims inside that we have all we need for living in the scriptures.
But the Holyspirit expected us to be reasonable people and not expect us to need instructions for
being somewhere or doing something we were not asked to do. Therepists nationwide are trying to help
the flood of people who are trying to get over the experiences they had in the new wave of doctrine
called "deliverance ministries". Ive councilled 2 in CC just this last year.

the words, "in the last days" come to mind

danschance · Apr 3, 2013

Abiding said:

So if I understand your position....

You claim that the Holy Spirit and a demon or fallen angel can not dwell in the same place, then all we need to do is invite the Holy Spirit into the life of a person and the demons will just drop out of the person. Have you ever attempted to do deliverance this way?

1still_waters · Apr 3, 2013

danschance said:

The lengths people go to to justify the belief that BELIEVERS can be BOUND/Demonized more than simply oppressed.

You say...

We're not talking like a house, bedroom, tree house or fort.
We're talking about the heart/spirit/soul/mind/whatever pedantic term you want quibble over potentially.

Lol the assumption here is that one...We can just kinda order the everlasting, almighty Holy Spirit around with a nice handy "invitation".
Two......That the Holy Spirit being in someones heart/spirit/soul/list above that I gave, can happen by someone else's command!

When does the Holy Spirit enter in to a believer??

Ephesians 1
[SUP]13 [/SUP]In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, [SUP]14 [/SUP]who[SUP][b][/SUP] is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

danschance · Apr 3, 2013

1still_waters said:

I do agree that the believer is much more than a Holy Spirit container In fact I believe that man is tri-une in nature. Meaning we possess a body, mind and spirit. I assume that the Holy Spirit enters a believer when one believes in Jesus.

Now I am not sure if you answered my question or not. Do you think 1) the Holy Spirit and the devil can not occupy the same space?

2) If they can not occupy the same space then would it be feasible to do deliverance on an unsaved person by inviting the Holy Spirit into the person.

3) Have you ever attempted this type of deliverance? What was the outcome?

1still_waters · Apr 3, 2013

danschance said:

You're thinking of this as if it's a box.
Where maybe you can cram in some Holy Spirit and maybe a lil devil too.

The bottom line is that believers are not bound by demons or the devil.

I don't know how many Bible verses I can quote.
You seem dedicated to believing believers can be BOUND by Satan/Demons.

danschance · Apr 3, 2013

1still_waters said:

I am asking if you think it is feasible to do deliverance this way. I am not asking for loads of scriptures. Assuming a person has a real bonafide demonic possession or oppression, could it be dealt with by inviting the Holy Spirit into this person?

1still_waters · Apr 3, 2013

Maybe I need to frame this another way.

God, in the BIBLE has gone to extreme measures to tell his children that they..

1 Are transferred from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of His son...
2. Blessed with every spiritual blessing in Christ.
3. Sealed with the Holy Spirit
4. Seated in heavenly places with Christ.
5. In the light.
6. In God's hand.
7. In God's love.

GET THE PICTURE??

Yet there is a teaching, with NO foundation other than PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.......
That is trying to tell BELIEVERS that they can be more than oppressed by Satan..No this teaching is telling them they can be BOUND by Satan.....

NOW...in light of all that God tells in his word about believers.....It begs a very serious question....

Just WHO or WHERE is this teaching coming from that says believers ARE bound by Satan..??

Connect the dots folks...

1still_waters · Apr 4, 2013

danschance said:

This is kinda the problem to begin with...

You ask..

How does one receive the Holy Spirit?

Ephesians 1
[SUP]13 [/SUP]In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

You approach this as if the Holy Spirit is some sort of fluid that can be poured into the gears per our invitation.

zone · Apr 4, 2013

1still_waters said:

the lengths people go to to avoid just preaching Law & Gospel and calling SIN SIN.

no, we're going to talk to devils and alters and try to discern one form of gibbering from an "authentic" gibbering.

we're going to go on generational curses and binding this and that.

THE WORD OF GOD - full strength.

if someone is demon possessed they're unsaved and satan's house in their case has not been plundered.
if the unclean spirit is cast out of a man, and the house is swept clean and NO GOSPEL presented, you're leaving that man worse off than he was before.

this is all hack stuff, and it's deadly.

much of MPD is mentally ill people acting out, many cases are found to be therapist induced - suggested, and so on.

ellis' mentor there documented 12 cases.

supposedly.

yet ellis who received new doctrinal updates on new soteriology and he alone (with the help of a hebrew guy who disappeared) has unlocked the secrets of Daniel....has dealt with 100 or more! (online yet)

not really though....just a new form of dispie - attributing the work of Jesus to satan.

what do you expect?

the Deliverance ministries are charismatic trains of pain and they need to go away.

excorcism is a quiet affair. Christ's Name is enough.

what's all this talking to devils and junk?

zone · Apr 4, 2013

1still_waters said:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

jb · Apr 4, 2013

Therapon said:

In Luke 13v10-17, this believer was NOT possessed (ie. had a demon in her), for if you read the whole of this account it simply says that '... He laid His hands on her, and immediately she was made straight...' The Lord Jesus did NOT exorcise the demon (ie. did NOT cast it out of her, like all the accounts of demon possession in the NT), He simply laid His hands upon her and healed her by manifesting the 'gift of healing' (1Cor 12v7-11). This dear woman, like Job, had a physical affliction which had been caused by energizings of evil power directed against each of them by evil angelic beings. Eph 2v2 states: '...the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience...', 'worketh' is the Greek word 'energoúntos' from 'energeo' (Strong NT:1754) and it means to be active, efficient, work in, to energize, it is the same Greek word that we get the English 'energy' from. These kinds of energizings are directed against not only the unsaved but believers as well, for this is why Paul says that Christian's 'wrestle' against principalities and powers, not flesh and blood and need the whole armour of God to defeat them. If you read Job chapters 1 & 2, you will see that Satan could get nowhere near Job, his household or his posessions until God gave him permission, Job 2v7 states, 'So went Satan forth from the presence of the Lord, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.' Satan did NOT possess (Satan was external to Job when he operated these energizings) him, but simply energized evil power against him and this is what caused the 'burning inflamation' that Job experienced, likewise, this is the same mechanism (the energizing evil power against a person) that the woman bent over had experienced. A believer CANNOT be possessed...PERIOD!

danschance · Apr 4, 2013

1still_waters said:

I guess it is just a hypothetical question. You have made your case as to why you think Therapon is wrong and I understand your points.

Still my question remains. Under what circumstances can demons be cast out?

Now i understand where Therapon is coming from also. What do you do when all of a sudden you are faced with the reality of dealing with a demon? This is not an academic dispute but a real occurrence.

Also I think you have underestimated the person's ability to choose sin. No one can ever separate us from God, except ourselves as we choose sin over serving God.

So I just think there are many facets to consider is all I am saying.

Therapon · Apr 5, 2013

danschance said:

Hi danschance,

I'm not in the forum much anymore. People here tend to deny realities that we have seen with our own eyes, touched with our own hands, heard with our own ears and I hate endless debates on whether my doctrine is better than your doctrine, sheesh.

Boots on the ground servants of Jesus (in foreign countries) are in a totally different world than theoretical theologians in chat-rooms. My friend Dr. Bob W. used to take teams of five doctors into Islamic countries. The Muslims knew those doctors were all Christians, but needed their services so badly that they overlooked them being infidels. Since Dr. Bob was team leader, the imams would follow him around town to make sure he didn't proselyte anyone. That suited Dr. Bob just fine because the other four doctors could then do their medical thing unhampered, and most importantly, lead their patients to Jesus. With all the imams in tow, out of the corner of his eye Dr. Bob would see one or another of the doctors “leading a bunch of young people to faith in Jesus, literally in the shade of their own mosque." The following is a short quote from his book, “Scary”.

"Dr. Edwards asked me to take a bus full of new believers in Jesus down to the Adriatic Sea to baptize them. This was a high privilege. On the way down, we passed a cemetery and one of the new believers had a demonic fit of screaming and shouting. Two of our lady missionaries took her aside and got her delivered from those demons. It was scary, but I was so proud of how they handled this while I just sat there and prayed for them.”

The above is a fairly common occurrence on the foreign field, but hesitate to mention it here because we all “know” Christians can’t be demonized. I personally have worked with dozens of demonized Christian multiples and by the grace of the Lord Jesus have led many to freedom. If you've read “Demons in the Church,” or my later book, "The Shining Man," you've seen examples of Christian multiples who had demons in their system. Oh, Scripture can be interpreted to show that the condition doesn't exist, but when working with a spiritually disturbed Christian, you soon discover that demonization is a reality with which you have to deal. Dr. Anderson in “The Bondage Breaker,” states that up to 85% of all Christians are under some degree of demonic influence and I tend to concur. What’s really sad about all this is that brethren under demonic oppression don’t get the spiritual help they need because in the minds of some, the condition doesn’t exist.

RedTent · Apr 5, 2013

Therapon said:

Hi danschance,

I'm not in the forum much anymore. People here tend to deny realities that we have seen with our own eyes, touched with our own hands, heard with our own ears and I hate endless debates on whether my doctrine is better than your doctrine, sheesh.

Boots on the ground servants of Jesus (in foreign countries) are in a totally different world than theoretical theologians in chat-rooms. My friend Dr. Bob W. used to take teams of five doctors into Islamic countries. The Muslims knew those doctors were all Christians, but needed their services so badly that they overlooked them being infidels. Since Dr. Bob was team leader, the imams would follow him around town to make sure he didn't proselyte anyone. That suited Dr. Bob just fine because the other four doctors could then do their medical thing unhampered, and most importantly, lead their patients to Jesus. With all the imams in tow, out of the corner of his eye Dr. Bob would see one or another of the doctors “leading a bunch of young people to faith in Jesus, literally in the shade of their own mosque." The following is a short quote from his book, “Scary”.

"Dr. Edwards asked me to take a bus full of new believers in Jesus down to the Adriatic Sea to baptize them. This was a high privilege. On the way down, we passed a cemetery and one of the new believers had a demonic fit of screaming and shouting. Two of our lady missionaries took her aside and got her delivered from those demons. It was scary, but I was so proud of how they handled this while I just sat there and prayed for them.”

The above is a fairly common occurrence on the foreign field, but hesitate to mention it here because we all “know” Christians can’t be demonized. I personally have worked with dozens of demonized Christian multiples and by the grace of the Lord Jesus have led many to freedom. If you've read “Demons in the Church,” or my later book, "The Shining Man," you've seen examples of Christian multiples who had demons in their system. Oh, Scripture can be interpreted to show that the condition doesn't exist, but when working with a spiritually disturbed Christian, you soon discover that demonization is a reality with which you have to deal. Dr. Anderson in “The Bondage Breaker,” states that up to 85% of all Christians are under some degree of demonic influence and I tend to concur. What’s really sad about all this is that brethren under demonic oppression don’t get the spiritual help they need because in the minds of some, the condition doesn’t exist.

Thank you, I needed this message today.

Prayer of Renunciation

zone

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