The end time prophesy and debate

[peterT]

You are referring to the Church both Jew and Gentile, Revelation is referring to God's future dealings with the Jews...not the Church. Take another look at these names...

Revelation 7:4-8 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

All that stems from your doctrine of a per-trib coming “Jews of the flesh” in the tribulation Not Christians. You have to put the Jews of the flesh in the tribulation to help you justify your pre-trib doctrine. So you say “Its Jews of the flesh, its Jews of the flesh” Not us Christians in book of Revelation.
You’re thinking in the carnal to help justify your pre-trib doctrine

Governor that shall rule my people Israel

Matthew 2:6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.

2000 years have passed since the Governor came, and who is the Governor ruling over? Us Christians His people Israel, Spiritual Israel, thus the 12 tribes are spiritual Israel and there is NO Jew or Greek in Christ Jesus.

The true Israel of God the church.

There is no pre-trib coming in the Bible, and if you could admit that then you would see there is NO Jew or Greek in Christ Jesus and we are all one

 

[peterT]

i click like spiritually peter.
just trim it down a bit and you're there.

all these babes trying to use the book of Revelation as the guide to anything.
no, don't read the gospels, or the Epistles.
that's too boring and there's too much Law in there and i feel convicted of my sin.

let's play end-times drama.
that's the sign of a Christian...right?

I know you are trying to say something profound Zone but I missed it.

Could you rephrase that statement ?

 

[Earlmayknowornot]

Laugh me to scorn and call me what you want. I don't care.

There are 4 Raptures

first when Jesus died on the cross it says that the graves were opened and the dead walked among them.

Second the rapture of the church and all OT saints from Adam foreword.

Third the rapture of 144,000 Jews

Fourth the rapture of the two witnesses.

Look it up.

 

[zone]

I know you are trying to say something profound Zone but I missed it.

Could you rephrase that statement ?

James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

Governor that shall rule my people Israel

Matthew 2:6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.

2000 years have passed since the Governor came, and who is the Governor ruling over? Us Christians His people Israel, Spiritual Israel....

The true Israel of God the church.

the believing remnant of the twelve tribes were the foundation.

gospel to israel first, then to gentiles.

all believers in the Vine.

all rejecters cut off.

no distinction.

that's all.

anyone claiming God has any people outside Christ is either a univeralist or just your garden-variety judaizer.

 

[peterT]

Laugh me to scorn and call me what you want. I don't care.

There are 4 Raptures

first when Jesus died on the cross it says that the graves were opened and the dead walked among them.

Second the rapture of the church and all OT saints from Adam foreword.

Third the rapture of 144,000 Jews

Fourth the rapture of the two witnesses.

Look it up.

What you call the

Second
Third
Fourth

That’s all "one" at the last trumpet, look it up

 

[zone]

Second the rapture of the church and all OT saints from Adam foreword.

Third the rapture of 144,000 Jews

ha?
the 144,000 are portrayed as in a vision....Jesus and the 144,000 ( a symbolic number) firstfruits are seen overlooking the scene on earth.

it's a VISION.

it is the last book to be studied.

why not try the Synoptic Gospels?

Matthew 13
The Parable of the Weeds Explained
36Then he left the crowds and went into the house. And his disciples came to him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds of the field.” 37He answered, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38The field is the world, and the good seed is the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the close of the age, and the reapers are angels. 40Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the close of the age. 41The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, 42and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

do you see multiple raptures?
Jesus never taught anything like that.

 

[crossnote]

All that stems from your doctrine of a per-trib coming “Jews of the flesh” in the tribulation Not Christians. You have to put the Jews of the flesh in the tribulation to help you justify your pre-trib doctrine. So you say “Its Jews of the flesh, its Jews of the flesh” Not us Christians in book of Revelation.
You’re thinking in the carnal to help justify your pre-trib doctrine

Governor that shall rule my people Israel

Matthew 2:6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.

2000 years have passed since the Governor came, and who is the Governor ruling over? Us Christians His people Israel, Spiritual Israel, thus the 12 tribes are spiritual Israel and there is NO Jew or Greek in Christ Jesus.

The true Israel of God the church.

There is no pre-trib coming in the Bible, and if you could admit that then you would see there is NO Jew or Greek in Christ Jesus and we are all one

Sorry, I just choose a more literal hermeneutic than an allegorical one .

 

[Earlmayknowornot]

Which trump are referring to. The one in Revelation that also contains the 7 bowls and 7 vials. Don't sound like the Second Coming to me.

 

[Earlmayknowornot]

ha?
the 144,000 are portrayed as in a vision....Jesus and the 144,000 ( a symbolic number) firstfruits are seen overlooking the scene on earth.

it's a VISION.

it is the last book to be studied.

why not try the Synoptic Gospels?

Matthew 13
The Parable of the Weeds Explained
36Then he left the crowds and went into the house. And his disciples came to him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds of the field.” 37He answered, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38The field is the world, and the good seed is the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the close of the age, and the reapers are angels. 40Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the close of the age. 41The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, 42and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

do you see multiple raptures?
Jesus never taught anything like that.

Hi, Zone good to see ya

What about Daniel when the Antichrist has them pinned in Petra which is in Jordan or that is to say Moab, Edom, and Ammon. Then he has to leave to fight news of the north and east. This is when the 144,000 are saved either by the witness of the two or some other means. Then AC returns to finish the deed, that is when they are translated, then the two witnesses then the return of the Lord.

 

[Earlmayknowornot]

Daniels visions are very detailed of the wars between Syria and Egypt concerning Berenice and Cleopatra. I don't see why they can't be accurate about this.

 

[zone]

Hi, Zone good to see ya

What about Daniel when the Antichrist has them pinned in Petra which is in Jordan or that is to say Moab, Edom, and Ammon. Then he has to leave to fight news of the north and east. This is when the 144,000 are saved either by the witness of the two or some other means. Then AC returns to finish the deed, that is when they are translated, then the two witnesses then the return of the Lord.

hi earl.

are you looking for a 7 year peace treaty or summink?

let's start there.

if i can prove to you there is no 7 year peace treaty, will you reconsider what you've been taught?
zone

 

[Blain]

this is funny

? What do mean? Funny in a good or bad way?

 

[peterT]

Which trump are referring to. The one in Revelation that also contains the 7 bowls and 7 vials. Don't sound like the Second Coming to me.

Which last trumpet ? the last one obviously, as the last trumpet is the last trumpet .

Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

1Thess4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1Cor15:5 1Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

The two end time witnesses are dead and raised at the sound of the seventh angel sounding the (last trumpet)


And we are in the heavens or some place when the seven last plagues come "AFTER" getting the victory over the beast and his mark


There we are stand on the sea of glass AFTER getting the victory over the beast AFTER the last trumpet Then the seven angels having the seven last plagues pour out the wrath of God upon the people that have the mark of the beast.

Rv15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.

8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

As you can see we are in the heavens or some place AFTER getting the victory over the beast and his mark and before the wrath is poured out on the people that have the mark of the beast


Rv16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,

There is only one last trumpet and the dead rise first, and we are in the heavens at the last trumpet AFTER getting the victory over the beast and his mark and before the wrath is poured out

 

[peterT]

? What do mean? Funny in a good or bad way?

It made me laugh, I could see her with her sleeves rolled up getting tuff ,and it cracked me up

 

[Earlmayknowornot]

Thats Good, but the vials happen after the angel blows the seventh trump. The trump that Paul is referring to is the trump that signals the end of the church age or the dispensation of grace. Why would God pour out His wrath on people that trust and believe on Him for everything. He didn't do it to Noah. He didn't do it lot. He didn't do it to those who went willing into captivity by the word of Jeremiah. So why would He do it to us. Persecution is one thing but, this God pouring out His wrath on the wicked.

 

[zone]

The trump that Paul is referring to is the trump that signals the end of the church age or the dispensation of grace.

what's the "church age"?
is there something that comes after it?

what's the "dispensation of grace"?
(i already know....sigh)

 

[Earlmayknowornot]

Glad you know Zone. Love ya

 

[Earlmayknowornot]

what's the "church age"?
is there something that comes after it?

what's the "dispensation of grace"?
(i already know....sigh)

Yes, the Tribulation and the Millennium reign and who will reign over I wonder.

 

[Earlmayknowornot]

I got to go for and I hate to because I love talking about this stuff and have more. But my Honey says it times to go. Have a meeting tonight. love y'all

 

[peterT]

Thats Good, but the vials happen after the angel blows the seventh trump. The trump that Paul is referring to is the trump that signals the end of the church age or the dispensation of grace. Why would God pour out His wrath on people that trust and believe on Him for everything. He didn't do it to Noah. He didn't do it lot. He didn't do it to those who went willing into captivity by the word of Jeremiah. So why would He do it to us. Persecution is one thing but, this God pouring out His wrath on the wicked.

The last trumpet is the last trumpet otherwise the last trumpet wouldn’t be the last trumpet.

1Cor15:5 1Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

He is not pouring out his wrath on them that trust and believe on Him for everything (where did you get that?)he is pouring it on the wicked the people that have the mark

We are in the heavens at the last trumpet AFTER getting the victory over the beast and his mark.

There we are stand on the sea of glass AFTER getting the victory over the beast AFTER the last trumpet Then the seven angels having the seven last plagues pour out the wrath of God upon the people that have the mark of the beast,NOT the people that trust and believe on Him for everything

Rv15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.

8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

As you can see we are in the heavens or some place AFTER getting the victory over the beast and his mark and before the wrath is poured out on the people that have the mark of the beast


Rv16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,

So were you got God poured out his wrath on them that trust and believe on Him for everything I don’t know