ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS... I THINK NOT!

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ANIOHEVTORAH

ANIOHEVTORAH

Banned
#1
Apr 9, 2013
239
6
0
#1
HEBREWS 6:4-6
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, [SUP]5 [/SUP]and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, [SUP]6 [/SUP]if they fall away,[SUP][a][/SUP] to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

There have been so many debates in the church as to whether we are "Once saved always saved" or if once we have asked Yeshua into our hearts, can we lose our salvation.

These verses here give a strong proof that we can lose it. But it's more detailed. It says those who are enlightened, have tasted the heavenly gift, partakers of the Ruach Hakodesh(Holy Spirit) and tasted the good word of YAH and the powers of the age to come.

So the big question is, how many who claim to be believers(self included) has truly had or received all these things?

Any thoughts on this?
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#2
Aug 28, 2012
21,033
3,406
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#2
Well I do believe we can fall away from our faith, but if one comes to know god a very deep and loving level and daily seeks after him and daily changes his/her heart to be like Jesus' heart i do not think they will crave anything but him for the rest of their days
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#3
Jul 2, 2011
21,554
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#3
I could never put my hand in the fire on that issue. Reading in the Word I know Yahweh, God's, mercy is fresh every morning, and I also know He has forgiven so many so much so many times as is written also. It would not be written about those who have once tasted and deliberately turned away from Him, but at the very same time I know, as Paul explained, many people do the very thing they hate, while in their hearts they worship and adore our Maker, so that makes it still open. Therefore I rest my case, my own file, on Yeshua's teaching, judge not and you will not be judged. There must be variables here.
 
D

Duckies

Guest
#4
#4
I believe that you can fall from the road, but once you have been saved and accepted Jesus Christ, you have been re-borned. We may fall from everything good and get lost out of our own will (which in this case you have choosen a different path than the one leading to salvation).
However through Jesus we find salvation, and those that understand know that only through him we will achieve this. In short, remember he tells you that he is a forgiving God, and my favorite part, no matter what, Jesus makes ALL things new! :)
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#5
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
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#5
ANIOHEVTORAH said:
HEBREWS 6:4-6
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, [SUP]5 [/SUP]and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, [SUP]6 [/SUP]if they fall away,[SUP][a][/SUP] to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

There have been so many debates in the church as to whether we are "Once saved always saved" or if once we have asked Yeshua into our hearts, can we lose our salvation.

These verses here give a strong proof that we can lose it. But it's more detailed. It says those who are enlightened, have tasted the heavenly gift, partakers of the Ruach Hakodesh(Holy Spirit) and tasted the good word of YAH and the powers of the age to come.

So the big question is, how many who claim to be believers(self included) has truly had or received all these things?

Any thoughts on this?
Click to expand...
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come.....
Click to expand...
Those who have been enlightened and are being enlightened are those who like me who have heard the Gospel message which struck a chord with me whereby my mind was illuminated in a similar way to Archimedes when he shouted Eureka, except with Archimedes his thoughts were on earthly things while for us the illumination is of the Holy Spirit which enlightens us of heavenly things. The goodness I have tasted are the fruits of the Spirit which you will know as well as I do are love,
joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.

Just my thoughts based on personal experience only for me enlightenment has taken a lifetime, and should I fall away which I have no intention of doing, my end, having experienced the good, would certainly be worse than my beginning.
 
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E

Elin

Banned
#6
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#6
ANIOHEVTORAH said:
HEBREWS 6:4-6
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, [SUP]5 [/SUP]and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, [SUP]6 [/SUP]if they fall away,[SUP][a][/SUP] to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

There have been so many debates in the church as to whether we are "Once saved always saved" or if once we have asked Yeshua into our hearts, can we lose our salvation.

These verses here give a strong proof that we can lose it. But it's more detailed. It says those who are enlightened, have tasted the heavenly gift, partakers of the Ruach Hakodesh(Holy Spirit) and tasted the good word of YAH and the powers of the age to come.

So the big question is, how many who claim to be believers(self included) has truly had or received all these things?

Any thoughts on this?
Click to expand...
Well, first of all, the letter to the Hebrews is addressing Jewish Christians who were thinking of returning to Judaism because of the ostracization and persecution from their own families.

As Christians, they had been enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift, become partakers of the Holy Spirit, tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come.

The author is warning them that if they return to Judaism, they are rejecting the sacrifice of Christ, and there is no other sacrifice by which they can repent and be saved.

We have here an example of the warnings by which God preserves the elect, and by which he separates true faith from false faith.

The true faith of the elect will heed God's warnings and be kept from falling away.
However, those of false faith will not heed God's warnings and will fall away, thereby manifiesting their false faith (1Jn 2:19).
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#7
Jun 24, 2011
11,555
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#7
I don't understand how they could fall away. To whom else will they go???

Must be why that big IF is in there...
 
WomanLovesTX

WomanLovesTX

Senior Member
#8
Jan 1, 2010
1,390
38
0
#8
ANIOHEVTORAH said:
HEBREWS 6:4-6
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, [SUP]5 [/SUP]and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, [SUP]6 [/SUP]if they fall away,[SUP][a][/SUP] to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

There have been so many debates in the church as to whether we are "Once saved always saved" or if once we have asked Yeshua into our hearts, can we lose our salvation.

These verses here give a strong proof that we can lose it. But it's more detailed. It says those who are enlightened, have tasted the heavenly gift, partakers of the Ruach Hakodesh(Holy Spirit) and tasted the good word of YAH and the powers of the age to come.

So the big question is, how many who claim to be believers(self included) has truly had or received all these things?

Any thoughts on this?
Click to expand...
First the question and answer to "Just what is Salvation?" must be asked and scripturally answered. The first verse that comes to mind is Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

Then we may ask, is this all there is to "being saved"? Other scriptures come to mind, like Romans 8:14 "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God."

What else? Is this all there is to "being saved"? What about Acts 5:32 "And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him."

OBEY HIM? Now we are right back to the LAW versus GRACE. What does the Word say? It says "you must endure". Christ said, “But he that endures to the end shall be saved” (Matt. 24:13; 10:22).

So it is not "immediate and permanent"?

No one is permanently saved at conversion. Christ said (twice) that His servants must “endure to the end” of their lives. What is the point of this statement if salvation is automatic upon accepting Christ?
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#9
Nov 24, 2012
30,783
3,684
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#9
This matter is about God not us. Sure if it up to us we would drown but a strong Life Guard will save.

For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. (Rom 5:10)

Salvation is His doing, but if you insist on limiting God's ability and faithfulness then...what can I say?
 
M

moretalman

Guest
#10
#10
ANIOHEVTORAH : Here's how I address this issue. Have you confessed with your mouth the Lord Jesus? Do you believe in your heart that God has raised him from the Dead? If you can answer Yes to these questions, Your saved. Salvation comes thru faith in Jesus Christ & that alone. But this doesn't mean that it's impossible to stop believing or to "discard your faith". There are many who have this testimony " I was a believer but I'm not a believer any more".

I believe there is such a thing as apostasy. But we do have the power to "keep" our faith. Satan can't steal it from us. But nor will God stop us from abandoning it. My admonition to all believers is "Keep on believing !"
 
C

CDavid

Guest
#11
#11
index.jpg
OSAS = I Do What I Want
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#12
#12
Well, if you choose to do what you want once you're saved, you cheapen grace and aren't walking in God's Will. We obey the one who made us out of thanks for who he is and the grace he has shown.
 
E

Earlmayknowornot

Banned
#13
Feb 17, 2013
1,034
9
0
#13
well, when Peter saw jesus walking on the water. He said Lord may I come to you and He said yes and Peter walked on the water. But, when he took his eyes off Jesus, he sank. Then cried Lord save me and Jesus lifted him up and they walked on the water back to the boat.

If we take our faith off the cross, we sank. It is the work of the cross that saves and sanctifies and justifies and nothing else. We look at the cross or we fall. It's that simple.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#14
Nov 24, 2012
30,783
3,684
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#14
Simpler, it is not a matter of our holding His hand but His holding ours.
 
U

Ugly

Guest
#15
#15
Wow, this topic must get a new post AT LEAST once a week. And its always the same people making all the same arguments. Doesn't it get old arguing the same thing constantly?
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#16
Jul 2, 2011
21,554
6,791
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#16
Ugly said:
Wow, this topic must get a new post AT LEAST once a week. And its always the same people making all the same arguments. Doesn't it get old arguing the same thing constantly?
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Golly, do you think it has anything to do with the fact that those who respond receive automatic notifications when they have had a reply? It is only proper to attempt to relate what is believed to be in the Light of Jesus Christ, otherwise we would be errant in the Way given each of us. Please forgive us if we persevere.
 
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T

Tintin

Guest
#17
#17
I think he meant 'thread', not 'post'. A new post makes sense. Countless threads on the same topic, do not.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#18
Jul 2, 2011
21,554
6,791
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#18
As long as there are guests and students of the Word, the same topics will always be treated in threads and posts..... Just like movies and songs, the themes are almost never new, but they are new to the participants, and if not, interesting enough to call them back.
 
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crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#19
Nov 24, 2012
30,783
3,684
113
#19
Ugly said:
Wow, this topic must get a new post AT LEAST once a week. And its always the same people making all the same arguments. Doesn't it get old arguing the same thing constantly?
Click to expand...
It gets old reading the same misapplication of Scripture too. What are we supposed to do, make up new truths for our answers?
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#20
Jul 2, 2011
21,554
6,791
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#20
You love the Lord, so you gotta keep pluggin' away! And you will!


QUOTE=crossnote;997582]It gets old reading the same misapplication of Scripture too. What are we supposed to do, make up new truths for our answers?[/QUOTE]
 
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