Outsider: The Truth & Why I'm Here

[Outsider]

Some of you may have already seen a few of my posts or talked to me over the chat. If you have, you probably know that I am quite opinionated, and I won't hesitate to speak my mind if I feel someone is wrong. However, it's about time I shed some light on my views and the reason why I'm here.

Outsider isn't merely an alias, it represents what I am. I am an outsider, an atheist within a theist community. The reason I bring this up is because it would be unfair for me to post under the false premise that I'm a Christian, when in reality, I'm not.

I did not come to this site to convert people to atheism. The two reasons I am here are as follows: 1.) I wish to examine different Christian views and responses to different questions and problems. 2.) I would like to offer the best advice I can to people who can use it.

About My Atheism:

I am going to briefly explain why I'm an atheist, a few of my views on religion, and I'm going to clear up potential misconceptions. As I said before, I have no intention of converting anyone to atheism. If you want to talk to me about my religious views (or lack thereof), feel free to do so here, or PM me, or talk to me over the chat when I'm on.

Some people believe atheists hate God. I want to let you know that I do not hate God, I simply don't believe in him. I did not say to myself, "I really hate God, I'm going to stop believing in him." Truth be told, I felt horrible when I admitted to myself that I was an atheist. I honestly wanted to believe God existed. But, to me, choosing to believe in God would be like choosing to believe something you know isn't true. I told myself God was real, but deep down, I didn't believe it. The day I realized I was an atheist was the day I stopped lying to myself. Some of you may feel like I'm lying to myself now, that I'm telling myself God doesn't exist when I know he does, but that's not true. I sincerely do not believe he exists.

Even though there isn't a god in my life, there is meaning to it. My belief in God may be gone, but my love for other people is still strong, and growing stronger all the time. It is the love of others that gives my life meaning. Recently, a teenager said he was going to dump his girlfriend because he realized he was loving her more than he loves God. It breaks my heart to hear this, because I believe this is the amount of love we should all hold for one another (though many of you will disagree).

I follow what is known as the non-coercion principle. I also support the free market as well as property rights. In short...
I'm a libertarian.

~<*>~~<*>~~<*>~

I normally wouldn't make a big deal about being an atheist, but this being a Christian forum, all of you deserve to know. As I said before, I'm not here to convert anyone to atheism, only to observe and to help out where I can. My advice may come from an atheist perspective, but I will never ask anyone here to sacrifice their belief in God to solve their problems.

 

[dashadow]

If you love, then you believe in God. You just don't have a fruitful relationship with God. But you'll be alright.

 

[Grey]

I honestly wanted to believe God existed. But, to me, choosing to believe in God would be like choosing to believe something you know isn't true.

I know that feeling

 

[Blain]

Some of you may have already seen a few of my posts or talked to me over the chat. If you have, you probably know that I am quite opinionated, and I won't hesitate to speak my mind if I feel someone is wrong. However, it's about time I shed some light on my views and the reason why I'm here.

Outsider isn't merely an alias, it represents what I am. I am an outsider, an atheist within a theist community. The reason I bring this up is because it would be unfair for me to post under the false premise that I'm a Christian, when in reality, I'm not.

I did not come to this site to convert people to atheism. The two reasons I am here are as follows: 1.) I wish to examine different Christian views and responses to different questions and problems. 2.) I would like to offer the best advice I can to people who can use it.

About My Atheism:

I am going to briefly explain why I'm an atheist, a few of my views on religion, and I'm going to clear up potential misconceptions. As I said before, I have no intention of converting anyone to atheism. If you want to talk to me about my religious views (or lack thereof), feel free to do so here, or PM me, or talk to me over the chat when I'm on.

Some people believe atheists hate God. I want to let you know that I do not hate God, I simply don't believe in him. I did not say to myself, "I really hate God, I'm going to stop believing in him." Truth be told, I felt horrible when I admitted to myself that I was an atheist. I honestly wanted to believe God existed

. But, to me, choosing to believe in God would be like choosing to believe something you know isn't true.

I told myself God was real, but deep down, I didn't believe it. The day I realized I was an atheist was the day I stopped lying to myself. Some of you may feel like I'm lying to myself now, that I'm telling myself God doesn't exist when I know he does, but that's not true. I sincerely do not believe he exists.

Even though there isn't a god in my life, there is meaning to it. My belief in God may be gone, but my love for other people is still strong, and growing stronger all the time. It is the love of others that gives my life meaning. Recently, a teenager said he was going to dump his girlfriend because he realized he was loving her more than he loves God. It breaks my heart to hear this, because I believe this is the amount of love we should all hold for one another (though many of you will disagree).

I follow what is known as the non-coercion principle. I also support the free market as well as property rights. In short...
I'm a libertarian.

~<*>~~<*>~~<*>~

I normally wouldn't make a big deal about being an atheist, but this being a Christian forum, all of you deserve to know. As I said before, I'm not here to convert anyone to atheism, only to observe and to help out where I can. My advice may come from an atheist perspective, but I will never ask anyone here to sacrifice their belief in God to solve their problems.

Oooooo I'm telling God on you;]

 

[Blain]

If you love, then you believe in God. You just don't have a fruitful relationship with God. But you'll be alright.

 

[Duckies]

Hi and welcome

One thing i can suggest, is to give him the chance. I would talk to him and put him to the test without expectation..you might be surprised for he is always on the look out for those who seek him.

God Bless You!

 

[dashadow]

I know that feeling

That was a good piece of quote to select because it makes a great point. One who doesn't believe in God because it isn't true to them is just unaware of the Truth. But that's okay. One day we all shall no the Truth. Can I get an "Amen!" ?

 

[Grey]

That was a good piece of quote to select because it makes a great point. One who doesn't believe in God because it isn't true to them is just unaware of the Truth. But that's okay. One day we all shall no the Truth. Can I get an "Amen!" ?

I could say the same of yourself.

One who does believe in a god because it is true to them is just unaware of the indoctrination and fallacy. One day the truth will be known.

 

[Tintin]

Outsider, that's all well and good but you've insulted several members and told people not to listen to their advice. Not cool, mate. Not cool at all.

 

[sunnygurl]

Nice to meet you outsider offically, I read your profile today and I appreciate your honesty and your seeking heart. God will reveal Himself to you just giving ya a heads up.
Welcome to CC.

Just a suggestion for your future postings please try not to read into things that have not been written by others and draw a conclusion based on what you believe you read, if you need clarity please ask. Most of us here dont have an issue with honest seeking questions and clean heathly debates.

Be blessed Outsider

 

[Outsider]

Outsider, that's all well and good but you've insulted several members and told people not to listen to their advice. Not cool, mate. Not cool at all.

The advice I told people to ignore was advice I felt was destructive. However, I realize just how different my ideas truly are from others around here, so I'll stop telling everyone to ignore certain people's advice.

Just a suggestion for your future postings please try not to read into things that have not been written by others and draw a conclusion based on what you believe you read, if you need clarity please ask. Most of us here dont have an issue with honest seeking questions and clean heathly debates.

I'll try to be more careful in both interpreting what I read and responding.

 

[PrettyBelle]

I could say the same of yourself.

One who does believe in a god because it is true to them is just unaware of the indoctrination and fallacy. One day the truth will be known.

Yes and on that day when the TRUTH is revealed, every knee will bow and every tounge confess that Jesus is Lord. I hope that Jesus reveals Himself to you in a mighty was before that day. God Bless you.

 

[emmanuelgodwithyou]

Hi i just want to say god bless you my brother and that god has a plan for all of us and it was only 3 years ago i was saying
the same things as you but look at me now god gave me a calling and i came running and the way i see it is god has just not called on you yet but he will. God bless and shalom

 

[moretalman]

Outsider: It's Ok I didn't used to believe in God either. Let me just say one thing.

Some things are to small to see, so you need a microscope. But God is to big to see, unfortnately you just can't back up far enough to see God. I'll leave you with this for now - until... in the famous words of Arnold - I'll be back.

One other thing, I know you promised us you wouldn't try to convert us (though I wouldn't mind if you did, I believe in freedom of speech) but we can't promise you we won't try & convert you, in fact I promise you we will try & convert you - it's our job.
1 Corinthians 1:18
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

 

[Grey]

Yes and on that day when the TRUTH is revealed, every knee will bow and every tounge confess that Jesus is Lord. I hope that Jesus reveals Himself to you in a mighty was before that day. God Bless you.

Once again I could say the same thing about you, you haven't shown any evidence to validate your claim over own disbelief.

And on that day when the truth is relieved when each one of us dies and likely sees that nothing is there all will be well acquainted with the sham.

 

[Outsider]

One other thing, I know you promised us you wouldn't try to convert us (though I wouldn't mind if you did, I believe in freedom of speech) but we can't promise you we won't try & convert you, in fact I promise you we will try & convert you - it's our job.

It's interesting you say this. Freedom of speech, when referring to the first amendment, only applies to the government. But it can refer to moral principles as well. But that's a philosophical discussion for another time. These forums have every ethical right to censor whomever they want. : P

There are two reasons why I'm not trying to convert people on this forum to atheism.
1. This is a forum for Christians, not atheists. Therefore, I feel I should act as a guest.
2. I want to try and help people here the best I can. Trying to convert people to atheism as a solution to their problems won't really fix anything. They aren't here to question their faith, they're here to get their problems figured out.

I will defend atheism if I feel someone is misrepresenting atheist views. I will also discuss atheism if someone asks about it. Otherwise, it's just not my place to debate the existence of God in this forum.

I definitely don't mind if people try to convert me to Christianity. If you honestly believe someone is going to burn in hell, you should try to convince them to accept God!

[video=youtube;ZhG-tkQ_Q2w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhG-tkQ_Q2w[/video]

 

[moretalman]

Outsider: Yea I appreciate what your saying about being a guest & all. In fact I do believe it is in the "rules of use" which you had to agree to before joining the forum, so your honoring these, which is good & right. I was just expressing my convictions that it wouldn't be a problem for me personally.

As far a freedom of speech, this applies to all the citizens of the United States, some how I think we're on the same page here. But while we are at it, another provision of the 1st amendment is "Congress shall make no law with regard to the establishment of any particular religion, nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof. Thought I'd throw that in for good measure.

As far as hell is concerned. This will probably ruffle the feathers of many of my fellow believers but a belief in hell is not necessary to salvation or to having standing with God. Standing with God comes thru faith in Jesus Christ. I personally don't use a fear of hell in an effort to lead people to faith in God. I use the truth that I've become convinced of & that is that we (all of human kind) were created to be God's daughters & sons & if we live our life as if this is not so we've missed out on our very reason for being.

I personally cannot currently reconcile a belief in a place of eternal suffering with the concept of a just God. I'm not convinced that a "just God" could even allow for such a place, much less place someone there as a punishment for rejecting Him.

There is a doctrine known as "The immortality of the soul" that is used to "justify" such a place. It simply asserts that the human soul is immortal by it's very nature & will exist forever - somewhere. And if God were to allow a person who was evil into heaven, all of heaven would be contaminated by this evil persons presence. Then we would be right back where we started from. So God had to prepare a place where all who would reject him & his will could spend eternity, without having a deleterious affect on those of us who have become convinced that submitting to the creator of the universe was in their own best interest.
As far as I know this doctrine is not found spelled out in the Holy Scriptures. Instead it found it's source in the teachings of Aristotle & Plato. A man known as St.Augustine of Hippo 354 - 430, studied the works of these 2 philosophers in combination with the study of the old & new testament & Apocrypha. Another man known as St. Thomas Aquinas 1225 - 1274 also impacted the development of this doctrine, I believe to an even larger degree than St Augustine. I personally have not done research of significant enough depth to articulate any further. Undoubtedly there is a great deal more to discover about this matter before any valid conclusions could be drawn.


My studies on the matter have yielded this. The 1st thing I did was to determine the meaning of the word "ever" as used in the scriptures. I think my findings were telling. I learned that the English word "ever" has its origin in the Greek word "aeon", which is where we get our English word "eon". I learned that this Greek word aeon could be rendered in a number of different ways depending on the context in which it was used, it could be rendered: World, Age, indefinite period of time, lifetime & eternity. From this brief study we are left with a lot of room for interpretation. I also thought it interesting that the scripture use the phrase "for ever & ever" quite often. If "for ever" always meant "eternity" why would it be necessary to say for ever & ever? For eternity & eternity. This doesn't add, up does it?
Having said all of this let me add that my personal convictions are that there is indeed a place of extraordinary suffering & this place is what we call hell. I believe the scriptures make it unquestionably clear that there is such a place but I'm not convinced that they are as clear on it's duration.


There are some Christians who contend that all human beings are foreordained from the foundation of the world to eternal bliss & others to eternal torment. God willed it that settles it. My conviction that God is just & not only, but that it's absolutely impossible for him to commit any act of injustice won't allow me to hold subscribe to this. In fact I find this belief monstrously preposterous.


As I stated earlier "I personally cannot currently reconcile a belief in a place of eternal suffering with the concept of a just God." But I cannot & will not assert that such a place does not exist. Just because I can't reconcile it with justice doesn't mean it cannot be reconciled, it could me that there are truths I am not currently in possession of that do indeed reconcile them. I am a man possessed of a fallible & finite mind, in fact all of my faculties are such. I must undertake further studies, in the mean time I will emphatically state this: I believe there is a place called hell & it's a place no person wants to go to, avoid it at all cost.
In closing let quote this passage of scripture: John17:3 Life eternal is this: To know the only true God & His son, Jesus Christ, whom he has sent.
Outsider, my convictions concerning the justice of God are so passionate that I can say emphatically, that if you go to God with an honest heart & ask him to reveal himself to you He must. (Romans 10:13) If he doesn't on Judgment day you'll be in the clear. Place it all on his shoulders, he created the universe, he's knows exactly how to bring himself to your attention, if he doesn't then he wouldn't be worthy of your worship. You'd be right, there is no such thing as God. But I contend that there is & that he loves you passionately, he loves you so much that he came to earth in the person of a man, suffered the death of the cross (to satisfy his own justice) to reconcile himself with you, so he could send eternity in fellowship with you.
Roman 5:19 For by one mans disobedience (that is Adams) many were made sinners, so then by the obedience of one (that is Jesus) many shall be made righteous. Thru faith in Jesus Christ you can have assurance of eternal life.
Romans 10: 8 - 9 If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus & believe in your heart that God has RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD you shall be saved. For with heart man believes unto righteousness & with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Take your rightful place by God's side as his son, it's where you belong. Who more than him could unfold to you the mysteries of the universe? Gain access to the divine mind, one not capable of error or miscalculation. He's waiting, place your trust in him. Father I pray that you evidently manifest your reality to Outsider even now as he reads this, in Jesus name! AMEN ! Say AMEN .

 

[Outsider]

As far a freedom of speech, this applies to all the citizens of the United States, some how I think we're on the same page here. But while we are at it, another provision of the 1st amendment is "Congress shall make no law with regard to the establishment of any particular religion, nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof. Thought I'd throw that in for good measure.

Yeah, I think we're on the same page to. When I say the 1st Amendment applies to the government, I mean that the government isn't allowed to censor people. However, as a citizen, you're allowed to censor whomever you want as long as they're on your property. Outside your property, however, and they're outside your jurisdiction. : P

Anyway, glad to have run into you on this thread.

 

[ProphetExcalibur]

Wow! What a smart guy!

 

[Hungry]

Outsider, can I ask what your "religious" history is? It sounds like you grew up in some religion.