Answering some questions concerning atheism

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Dec 25, 2009
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#1
Hi, I noticed an "Ask an atheist" topic was recently locked due to the lack of maintenance by the creator. I wanted to go through and answer some of the questions that came up later into the conversation, starting with the ones that were directed at me. I'll probably move back through the other topic and answer those later as well. If anyone wants to add any more questions I will be happy to attempt to answer.
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Q: Like, how to explain the way the USA developed, back when most of government was God centered? I looks to us as if it was blessed. -RedTent
A: From the research I've done the government wasn't too God centered. A lot of the founders and members of the government took part in a lot of religious rituals; going to church, morning prayers, etc. However religion wasn't a part of there policy making. Many people in government were actually afraid of this, they thought that future generations will look back on the nation at that time I see it as ungodly. It was one of the reasons why "In God We Trust" started to be put on some coins after the civil war, people wanted to show that the nation was very religious. And the nation, as a whole, is very religious but the government of the USA was always removed from making claims about God. I think a quote from the US treaty with Tripoli expresses it best, "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion;" -1796, signed by John Adams.

Q: We believe that God is a powerful force in the world and history shows that, how do you look at history as being without God? -RedTent
A: I am not really sure how to answer this question because I don't know what it is like to look on history with belief in God. There is a lot to learn from by human behavior in the past, there is a lot of terrible things that happened but also a lot of events that when into improving the human condition. I look at history and try to see where people came from and how we got into the state that we are now. I am not too sure if that really answers your question though.

Q: God blessed the Jews for being a race of people He used to show his principles through. Even though they still do not recognize Christ as their messiah, but think Christ will still come, their history tells the Christian that God is working with them. They remain a separate race, even with way over a thousand years without a country, they have been constantly disciplined, the orthodox still worship God in how God told them centuries ago. Do you think that just happened? -RedTent
A: A lot of religions have survived for centuries without too much change happening to them around the world. I don't see the Jewish people as any special case. Religion, subcultures, and linage are powerful things around the world. They stick with people, they spread to their children, and sometimes around the surrounding communities. Art is made due about them and that makes the religious beliefs even more important to those people. I am not surprised about the survival of the Jewish people, nor am I surprised by the cultural barriers that they have to make them be seen as a different ethnic group.

Q: Would you comment, if I promised to scold any poster who said you couldn't think in your unique way?
-RedTent
A: I doubt there would be a need for that. I've been here for years and I think there has only been 2 times when people have had a very negative reaction to me expressing my thoughts here.

Q: okay... here's one. When did you become an atheist? -Mammachickadee
A: There are a different definitions for atheist, so when I became one will depend on the definition being used. I didn't grow up in a religious family, in fact I never had religion explained to me growing up. I learned about ancient Egyptian religion through books in the library but I didn't know that it was still common for people to be religious in modern times. So, if the definition is just someone who doesn't believe in a god then I have been an atheist for as long as I can remember. However, other people use the definition more specifically. I learned about Islam and Christianity when I was 10 years old and someone got in a discussion with my friend over his belief in Islam. The person asked him a lot of questions about Jesus and it got a little heated. This prompted me to learning about Christianity and Islam, which included reading the bible. Some might say I became an atheist after I studied the claims that these religions made and came to the conclusion that I didn't accept the claims that either of these religions made.

Q: Do you want the peace of knowing God to rest upon you, the love of God to reside in the extremest depths of your soul, the wondrous grace from the hand of God to touch you, Do you seek freedom from the cesspool that this world has us all drowning in, Do you want purity at it's best, righteousness at it's finest, Do you want Eternal Salvation? What you yearn for is Christ. -MaranathaSoonQuick
A: To be honest I don't know if there is anything beyond this feeble, humbling physical "container" that I call my body. I don't know if anything awaits me after my body dies, but based on what I have seen I doubt that there is anything waiting. I think that it would be great if there was I don't want my consciousness to disappear, but I don't have the evidence necessary to believe that it will live on after my brain stops functioning. When it comes to the specifics of wanting to know God, well yeah, if he exists then I would want to know that he does and I would like to understand the qualities he has and what kind of meaning that would have on my life, but I don't see that as something that is likely.

Q: Who do you thank for the life and breath? Where did we come from? Where are we going? How do you know? Justice can never be achieved if there is no existence beyond the grave. -nl
A: Who do you thank for the life and breath? I don't thank any specific being for "life and breath". If I am going to thank beings for my life I would thank all of my ancestors who had to tough it out through great hardships in order to survive and have children, even though they didn't really have me in mind when they were doing it. Where did we come from? I'm guessing you are referring to people in general. I believe in evolution, not all atheists do though, so I think that we evolved from more basal apes. We made huge development in cultures over the last couple hundred thousand years and then much bigger developments do to the agricultural revolution that started more than 10 thousand years ago. The invention of writing to share our thoughts with future generations and really changed what it meant to be human. Where are we going? I differ from most atheists on this, but I think that a big part of human civilization has been to try to escape from the dangers of nature. So I think that the trend of invention will continue and human civilization will continue to have more and more influence over how the world functions. I think that the human race will continue to spread, even beyond the earth. If you meant those questions in a more spiritual way, such as "Where did our souls come from?" then my response is that I don't accept the premises. I think that "we" as people are a function of our bodies. How do you know? I believe that the scientific method is functional for finding information about the universe, and I have seen a lot of supporting evidence for evolution, and for human thoughts being a process of the brain. I think that our methods for studying history are fairly functional as well for modeling the past, so people who research these things in a manner that can be tested by other should be taken seriously and so I listen to what they say and apply it to my models of the world. Justice can never be achieved if there is no existence beyond the grave. Maybe not completely, and that is a shame but that doesn't mean that something has to exist beyond the grave. It just means that we live in an unfortunate world where justice is never fully achieved, but knowing this should drive us to try harder to get close to justice on earth because it does not seem likely that it will be automatic after death.

Q: As an atheist what is your belief about the different realms in our world? Do you believe there is a spiritual realm? -RedTent
A: I don't know much about the subject so it is difficult to comment on. I haven't seen evidence of these things and they seem like something that there would be evidence for, but unless I really know what I am looking for it is hard to make any comment on it.

Q: We see much order in the physical. Tides, how the stars operate, time, etc. What is your explanation? -RedTent
A: Because the universe seems to be based on complex interactions between simple forces. Not every in history has saw these things as having order, it was only considered to have order after we were able to recognize certain trends in the behavior. We see a lot of order in these things because of we are able to model the properties of them. I think it says a lot about the power of observation and desire to understand the world around us and less to do with the actual reality of it all.

Q: What was the first cause? -RickShafer
A: I am not even sure if there has to be one because I don't know the nature of reality when to events that happened before the kinds of interactions I am familiar with. If there is a first cause, I think, based off the trends I've seen, that the first cause would be something incredibly simple. I would not define something like this as a god, because when people talk of gods they usually refer to a complex, intelligent entity.

Q: Just one to tickle your mind I hope. As a former Atheist I do believe I had a very strict belief system, i.e. :Filling in all the gaps in the theories of evolution, cosmology, micro/macrobiology, and other areas required me to believe that one day science would come up with the answers. Do you hold these same beliefs? If you do, then don't you extend a bit of faith in what you support? -MattW
A: No, I don't believe that it is necessary for science to one day be able to answer all of these questions we have about the universe. The universe saves pieces of a lot of the information that happens in the past but it doesn't seem to do this in a manner that implies a will to be understood. It is very possible, and likely, that much of the information we would need to understand these things scientifically have been lost with the flow of time. Here is something relevant to this idea; let us imagine a galaxy that would exist several billions of years in the future. There is a planet in this galaxy that has complex life. This life develops civilization and something akin to the scientific method. They would discover a lot about the universe, but because of the changes that would have happened to the universe as a whole from now to then we are able to make a very interest claim about what they wouldn't know. Because of the universes expansion, we know that these lifeforms would never know that there are other galaxy outside there own because they wouldn't be able to observe any since the light would never reach them. It would be impossible for them to explain the "beginning" of the universe as well as we have.
Now, do I extend a bit of faith in what I believe? Of coarse, there is always varying degrees of faith and there is always new information to be gained. Right now, the beliefs that I hold about these subjects have yet to be falsified, but every piece of new evidence has the chance to disprove them.

Q: Have you read the book "God Doesn't Believe in Atheists?" -Nuns_n_roses
A: I keep it next to my computer. A Christian gave it to me for free after I talked to him for a half hour at an Earth Day fair. I find the book pretty comical.
 
Oct 31, 2011
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#2
Thanks so much for sharing with us what it is like to see the world as if God isn't in it! I have often wondered.

I wish I could share with you my world with God in it the same way you are sharing yours. It is very strange, but I can see your world but I don't think I could give you a picture of mine in your way of seeing. I hadn't realized the difference in our perception was so great!

Thanks, again.
 

T_Laurich

Senior Member
Mar 24, 2013
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Answer my question if you will please...

lets look at a mechanical watch... Not a digital on but a mechanical one... Now this watch is precise... It tells time to the tera-second... Never failing always on time...

So we take this watch apart and have it sit in a bag, now here is the thing... without touching or manipulating that watch in any way, what is the possibility that when we open up that bag in 6,000,000 trillion years... The watch will be back together... Not on time but just back together....

What if we do the same with an apple, and go down to the molecular structure, down to the higs... and down to the new 'god particle' down to dark energy and anti mater... We set it up in a space where the laws of nature can act... What are our chances that we will end up with a apple??? or even another earth (which if you understand: is far more probable) Or even a working sun... Or maybe a black hole??? What are the chances after trillions and trillions of years???

Does this not scream creator to you??? The fact that we can not duplicate anything with testing... That all these 'facts' (using the scientific definition of fact) That all these 'facts' are in fact based off the probability we are here.. Nothing we do can explain it or even begin to explain it but since we are here it must have happened this way EVEN THOUGH IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.

The whole objective of the atheists agenda when they talk to a christian is to prove our faith is fallible and we are ignorant... You never take into consideration that all your are doing is vomiting out information fed to you by other humans... Have you ever studded quantum mechanics? Quantum trapping? then why try to convince others that it is correct... Your selling "the best product since cornflakes" yet you have never tried out your product or the competitions...

Sorry for not being very humble about this but I find so many flaws with science... Peer review... GIVE ME A BREAK!
 
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Nuns_n_roses

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#4
Thank you for sharing your perspective! :)
 

T_Laurich

Senior Member
Mar 24, 2013
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I apologize for being so crude with my post... I really do, I honestly wish I could delete it. I even thought when posting it that I wanted to delete it but my pride and anger kept me from doing so... My apologies if I turned you further away from God by that post...
 

TheKringledOne

Senior Member
Dec 25, 2009
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I apologize for being so crude with my post... I really do, I honestly wish I could delete it. I even thought when posting it that I wanted to delete it but my pride and anger kept me from doing so... My apologies if I turned you further away from God by that post...
I didn't find it that crude, and it isn't like anything in your post attacked my character so I don't find an apology is necessary. I think it is a rather easy subject for people to have power reactions to, and I am glad that you aimed the feelings you had towards the ideas that I was expressing and not at my actual person. It is very nice to know that you do care about me as a person enough about my person to issue the type of apology you did, so I appreciate the message of it. I did start writing a response to your first message, but I will wait to finish it until I verified that you still want it answered.
 

T_Laurich

Senior Member
Mar 24, 2013
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You can answer it if you want, the argument will go on for ever... We are comparing apples to oranges... No matter which way we say things we are talking about two different things, I am talking about Henry Ford, and you are talking about the model T... No matter what your response I will not rebuke God or doubt him. And no matter what my retort; it is not me who decides your fate, that is between you and God.
 
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ddallen

Guest
#8
Answer my question if you will please...

lets look at a mechanical watch... Not a digital on but a mechanical one... Now this watch is precise... It tells time to the tera-second... Never failing always on time... Not quite - 1 tera second is approx 31,700 years long - an atomic clock won't be accurate over that length of time

So we take this watch apart and have it sit in a bag, now here is the thing... without touching or manipulating that watch in any way, what is the possibility that when we open up that bag in 6,000,000 trillion years... The watch will be back together... Not on time but just back together.... A watch is an inanimate lump of metal parts, if it did come together - that would point to a supernatural influence

What if we do the same with an apple, and go down to the molecular structure, down to the higs... and down to the new 'god particle' down to dark energy and anti mater... We set it up in a space where the laws of nature can act... What are our chances that we will end up with a apple??? or even another earth (which if you understand: is far more probable) Or even a working sun... Or maybe a black hole??? What are the chances after trillions and trillions of years??? - the universe is only ~14 billion years old. Gravitation attraction of matter and the formation of both stellar and planetary objects is quite well understood - We know how it happens - as for black holes - their formation is quite easy - gravitational collapse of a giant star overpowers the strong nuclear force.

Does this not scream creator to you??? The fact that we can not duplicate anything with testing... That all these 'facts' (using the scientific definition of fact) That all these 'facts' are in fact based off the probability we are here.. Nothing we do can explain it or even begin to explain it but since we are here it must have happened this way EVEN THOUGH IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE. No - we are here and we observe the universe, make up hypothesis as to how it formed, how life evolved, then we try to prove/disprove our hypothesis. From this we learn. To ascribe everything to a supernatural being is a lazy way to explain the wonders of the universe, and makes less sense. Something that existed before anything created everything from nothing

The whole objective of the atheists agenda when they talk to a christian is to prove our faith is fallible and we are ignorant... You never take into consideration that all your are doing is vomiting out information fed to you by other humans... Have you ever studded quantum mechanics? Quantum trapping? then why try to convince others that it is correct... Your selling "the best product since cornflakes" yet you have never tried out your product or the competitions...

Sorry for not being very humble about this but I find so many flaws with science... Peer review... GIVE ME A BREAK!
See above in red
 

T_Laurich

Senior Member
Mar 24, 2013
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#9
Not quite - 1 tera second is approx 31,700 years long - an atomic clock won't be accurate over that length of time
Is that not the 'irony' in my point???

A watch is an inanimate lump of metal parts, if it did come together - that would point to a supernatural influence
The watch represents the universe, never failing, always 'on time', beautiful... The illustration was to show you your own scientific laws could not be put on something else, yet they work for our universe...

the universe is only ~14 billion years old. Gravitation attraction of matter and the formation of both stellar and planetary objects is quite well understood - We know how it happens - as for black holes - their formation is quite easy - gravitational collapse of a giant star overpowers the strong nuclear force.
No... No... No... We don't know how it happens... Okay for this universe to work, and for everything to work as we see, scientists realized, 'Wait our math and logic is off' so they came up with this theory... It is called the Multiverse theory, it states that for the universe to be even remotely possible, not likely but remotely possible... we would have to have 10^10^10^7 universes out there... You know how many that is? That is more than there are atoms in this universe! So your theory on how gravitation and everything else is a 1 in a 10^10^10^7th guess (and that is your best odds). Unless your just shooting for a black hole (which is not a star that is collapsed it is super condensed mater) but if you are shooting for that, then your odds go up a bit :)

No - we are here and we observe the universe, make up hypothesis as to how it formed, how life evolved, then we try to prove/disprove our hypothesis. From this we learn. To ascribe everything to a supernatural being is a lazy way to explain the wonders of the universe, and makes less sense. Something that existed before anything created everything from nothing

And that is your problem, you ruled out a hypothesis because it seems to simple... Its like your in class and the teacher asks "if Suzie gives me 2 cookies and I already have 2 cookies how many do I have" then this kid you hate in the back blurts our 4 cookies without raising his hand... You go NO! NO! NO! and you set out to try to find ways to make that kid wrong, your envy towards him clouds your perception on what your talking about! Honestly read the bible and look at science... I know you hear red necks like me spurt out that you guys are just rediscovering what God wrote down... But look at it for yourself...

In reality I have a southern-ish accent... I am a skinny kid who is the average height of a women... I graduated highschool in the summer due to I failed a few classes... And when I talk I tend to stutter... All these things would in reality make you not listen to me more, why? Because we are in a mode where if your not this exact type of person sit down, shut up, let the 'adults' speak... Just look at your life with fresh eyes... please man... Don't read my message with a closed heart and if you do, please read it again with an open one...
 
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T_Laurich

Senior Member
Mar 24, 2013
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#10
Sorry for posting twice but your tera-second Idea is incorrect, how can a unit radically smaller than a second be longer than a year??? I read that for the second time and went, wait a minute... A tera means there are 10^12 units of measurement to each second. Now there are 31536000 seconds in a year so we multiply 10^12 by 31536000 to get 3.1536e^19 teraseconds in a year...now we multiply that by 31,700 and get 9.996912e^23 tera seconds... Not 1 but 9.996912e^23... I personally dont understand how you got one???
 
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ddallen

Guest
#11
Sorry for posting twice but your tera-second Idea is incorrect, how can a unit radically smaller than a second be longer than a year??? I read that for the second time and went, wait a minute... A tera means there are 10^12 units of measurement to each second. Now there are 31536000 seconds in a year so we multiply 10^12 by 31536000 to get 3.1536e^19 teraseconds in a year...now we multiply that by 31,700 and get 9.996912e^23 tera seconds... Not 1 but 9.996912e^23... I personally dont understand how you got one???
I see the misunderstanding. Tera is 10^12. You are referring to Pico 10^-12. there are 10^12 pico seconds in one second