CALLING ALL ATHEISTS TO A CHALLENGE!!!

Ramon, i'm not atheist, as a matter of fact, i'm a christian, a GOD FREAK. But i think it's unwise to post these thing about calling Atheist to bring their case.

What if they say, where does God come from?
Are we supposed to believe God loves us just bcoz the bible says so?
What is he doing while all these sufferings are going on?
Where does the bible even come from?
What was ur God doing all those times b4 he created the world.Probably having fun D)
So somebody comes and claims to be the son of God and then he dies and i'm supposed to believe dat story and be saved?

where will u get answers from?.. But d bible does explain 1 thing though in 1Cor1:18 dat to them dat perish the gospel of Christ doesn't make sense

God bless. Amen

ITS TH TH TH TH !!!!!!!!!!!

^@Tobby; and Romans 4:14
A child is doesn't have the reasoning capacity, they learn by correlating patterns.
When I see a house, I can see how a house is built, how the materials are compiled, I can call the builders up, watch them work, take a course in house building.
When I see a rock or a flower or the earth, I have no evidence it was produced by (a) God(s), just an acknowledgement of complexity. As with the snowflake-magnetix analogy, complexity does not prove causation.

An existence is proof of existence
An existance is not evidence of its causation.

Assumption: God exists and created the universe and had control to design everything within.
1) Person (complex existance) exists
2) Therefore God designed him.

No assumptions
1) Person (complex existance) exists
2) What caused it?

and just to be fair; Assumption God doesn't exist.
1) Person (complex existance) exists
2) Not sure what caused it, but it wasn't a God.

Going with the 'no assumptions' logic, I don't see how you can say existance proves God (without appealing to other evidence).

Thomas, i don't get ur point. Just as Children learn what they are taught, the same way Atheist learn what scientists teach them and the same way Christians learn what they are taught in the church... And the same way Children believe what they are taught. It's the same way, we believe what we are taught...

God bless. Amen!

...and the way to break out of that cycle is to think, question, investigation and using others to criticize the conclusions to see how they hold. If we all believed what we are taught, there wouldn't be agnostics and atheists within the bible belt and israel.. or vice versa.

i think u need to read 1Cor1:18 Thomas if u ave a bible. It's important for u.

These whole thing about God and Christ is not supposed to make sense

How on earth did that prove your point? Do you even know what your point you're trying to prove is anymore because originally it started as "Is there a God?" but your response of, "That proves my point. Christians believe," just makes your argument even more confusing. If the point you were attempting to prove was whether or not Christians believe as you seem to state here, well that was never the argument in question and no atheist or going to accuse a Christian for not believing in anything. They may question the validity of what they base their beliefs on but they're not going to accuse them of not having beliefs. As to why a non believer like myself would be here, I've said it before and I'll say it again, I come in here because there's a lot less pervs on religious sites like this, and despite conflicting beliefs I like listening to the variety of what other people have to say to gain a better understanding of what all people of all faiths are basing their every day opinions on.

Glad to see I'm not the only one who joined for the same reason.

Seriously try being a girl in your typical every day chat. It's pretty much impossible to have a real conversation that doesn't at some point deviate to the guy saying, "Hey guess what! I have what all guys have, and it functions like it's supposed to! Isn't that cool?" Seriously, they're not that impressive. At least not enough for the revelation that they exist to astound and amaze me every time they get mentioned.

And I'll be fair, I've run into women that do this as well, and I know I've heard men complain that they have the same thing happen to them only with women. Sometimes you just want an actual conversation, not someone perving on you.

Well, I think these Atheists don't have a case to begin with. They just presume, and well, I don't see how they can claim to be Atheists. But we have been challenged as to why we believe what we do, and as of yet, I have heard some very weak cases here.

I said that if they can give me a case as to why they say there is no God, then I will give my case as to why. They sound more like another religion more than Atheists. Or maybe Atheism is also a religion, they just serve the unanamed god that the Greeks did. Or maybe they serve themselves as god. Or maybe they serve science as god, I don't know which. Yeah, just sounds like another religion to me. Oh well.

You get a big DING!!! So, now you believe in the ancient Mayans or the Egyptians because their buildings are still up, but do you summon spirits of the dead to call up Pharaoh and say, ''Hey, how did you do that, or did you even build those pyramids?'' Yeah, right! No case, thrown out.

Also, at the same time you see the complexity, and would you also believe these silly scientists that assume that complexity and design happened by happenstance? Okay, if I were as wise as you I would assume this:

Cars started a a single cell organism, an over time they evolved from that into what we know as our modern cars. It started as metal in its elemental state and slowly, over billions of years it shaped itself into a complex design and organized itself into the right places, and gave itself fuel, and paint crept up on certain parts of the metal and BAM! Like you never knew it, you get cars!!

WHATTTT!??? Yeah right think again.

You also get another DING!!! Listen to yourself, and I quote:

''Not sure what caused it, but it wasn't a God.''

HAHAHA!! You said you are not sure, then you go and say you are sure it wasn't a God. HAHA DING DING DING!

Maybe I should say, I am not sure who created cellphones, but I am sure it wasn't people. DING!! And I can say, I am not sure who created you, but I am sure it wasn't someone who was intelligent, would this offend you? Anyhow. Weak as before. Try again.

Everything created has a creator. Like a painting or whatever, somone painted it.
The creation longs to know its creator. At least some of it does. I'm told I have a creator and not only did he make me but he took the time to come and find me.
I believe in the God of the Christian bible because I have prayed to the God by that name and no other and he has responded. Sometimes immediately sometimes only later would I realize he answered when I thought back on a situation.

More and more I feel him inviting me to come and search for the relationship with him that he desires from us.

I would agree with the people who say they don't need to prove he doesn't exist. But I would say you are here and no matter how you show your defense you do at some level want to know.

I often used to think I was very right about the incorrect things I thought about God but I would secretly say to him "Please prove me wrong".

Edit: I'm listening to a CD by Ed Dobson called God is There. When Adam and Eve sinned against God int he Garden he didn't summon them up to heaven to stand trial, he got off his throne<figuritivly> and went down into the Garden and said "Where are you"?

We have evidence of the tools available in the era of ancient egyptians, fossilized, hyrogliphs pictures of that process, and even have an explanation for how such a process could be performed.

The difference between Cars and Biology, buildings and trees etc is biological organisms self-replicate by themself with imperfections leading to variation.
Lol, do you even know what an assumption means? then declare it to be a claim of myself? Your just a one-man strawman, but you probably won't know what that means either

Perhaps its you who should listen to yourself.

Pfft. Your case is falling through the cracks. You say that these things you see that the ancient Egyptians left are proof that pyramids were build by Egyptians. Hmm, then can I say that the fact we have trees and fruit and our own selves is proof that God made us? Do you see your double standard?

As for cars and biology, you claim to deny what you haven't seen, so, I can say this:

(I am being foolish) Well, I didn't see the guy who made the car so I don't believe he exists. I don't care how detailed it is, and the evidence, unless you show me him, I will not believe you. Don't I sound like a fool? Indeed, I sound like a fool. HAHA DING!! I should be slapped for my foolishness.

That is how I say a child would put you to shame. Because a child simply would believe and clearly see the evidence. And a child has more sense then all your reason can muster up. Indeed, trees do self-replicate, but who created the first tree? DING!!

If everything has a creator what created God ?

Forlon, he is a God, so he is not meant to be created!!!. That's what makes all the other small gods stupid and irrelevant, it's bcoz they were created by those who serve them..Can u create or make something and then become a slave to that thing or worship it Forlon? that is a question thrown to you...

Have u ever bothered to check the definition of God in the dictionary, God is defined as a Supreme, Spiritual being. The fact that he wasn't created Forlan. Makes him even better, and worthy to receive our praises forever and ever. Amen!

Thats not even circular logic thats just contradictory you believe that everything created needed an intelligent creator. Then God had to be created like everything else. Im fully aware of what the definition of a God is, which is why I don't believe or worship one.

Forlorn, you're still 16 if this is right, u still have a lot of time in ur life to be saved.

So i'll just pray one simple prayer for u, that you don't harden ur heart till you make God does harden it more for you like the case of Pharaoh. God loves you bro Forlorn, and you deserve more than this darkness that you've decided to put yourself..

Haha. Come on man. Seriously. Should the T.V say to the creator of the T.V. If I was created by you, then who created you? It is a question, but a pointless one. And I will tell you this God created you, and he is the creator of everything, WHAT ARROGANCE!

Well I wouldn't focus on design, I would go for the primum moven arguments of Aristotle or Aquinas:

The universe is comprised of cause-and-effect relationships; since an infinite causal loop throughout all eternity is impossible, there must at some point have been an object or entity that is or was not subject to this cycle.

For instance, if you take Aristotle's argument, he relates it to movement:

a) Things in the universe are moving.

b) Many (if not all) things or events that move/take place were set in motion by something else.

c) If everything that moves or takes place was caused by something else moving, there would be an infinite loop or chain of cause-and-effect relationships.

d) Since (c) is impossible, there must be something that independently caused the very first movement without exterior influences, hence the "unmoved mover".





So there is the supposed "unmoved mover", or the first cause. Whatever he/she/it is, we assign it the title of "God" (intelligence/design is a separate issue). "God" does not require a creator because that is his fundamental feature, and many would simply define God as that which does not require creation.

It's not an argument in favour of the specific Christian notions of divinity, but there it is.

I will challenge your Aristotle. Your Aristotle has no knowledge at all. Is he great because he says, thing in the universe are moving? HAHAHAHA. That is funny. LOL! Some great man because he used his eyes like we all can, to see that things are moving. PFFT

And he is not so great now, because he is using presumption to assume all things were set in motion by something else. That means he knows all things. Oh, but he said many, because he doesn't know all things. So already we know he is limited in his knowledge. DING!!

So now he is limited and he adds superfluous words and complex ideas to make up for his limited knowledge. DING!!

And now he ends up crediting God, accept he doesn't acknowledge him as God, because then that would mean he doesn't know everything, which he admits. AHHH DING DING DING!! So people assume when they look like fools because they don't know. And you might ask then how do I know. Because I have seen and heard. But you are like little children that stick your fingers in your ears and close your eyes tight when he is trying to speak to you, and show himself to you.

Try again. I thought there might be some competition. Oh well, next!