Can you accept this.......

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Tinkerbell725

Tinkerbell725

Senior Member
#61
Jul 19, 2014
4,216
1,179
113
Philippines Age 40
#61
Desertsrose said:

When the book, The Shack first came out I read it. I had 2 friends tell me how great it was. Ugh! It was anything but!

I did some research on the author and even read his blog. He wrote this book at his wife's bidding. She thought he had such marvel ideas that if he died, his kids wouldn't know what his faith was like. So she encouraged him to write it all down.

So everyday on his way to work and back, he wrote in a pad of paper all the things he believed. And it isn't what we would consider Christianity. That's why he needed to write it down for his kids because they wouldn't have been able to read the bible and come up with the way Paul Young believes.

Many Christians support this book by calling it a piece of fiction. It's not a piece of fiction, it's real, it's Paul's relationship with God - how he sees God.

He's more of a Universalist in his thinking. He was also a part of Wayne Jacobsen's group. I was a part of Wayne's online forum and at first liked some of the things that were said. I remember Paul being on there and thinking at the time that he was off in his theology.

I was also reading some of Wayne's books during that time. One of his books was on one-anothering which I really liked. He had some great insight, but he seemed to be moving more towards a more Universalist type theology after a while as well. So if this is The Shack talking, I'd stay far away from it. Wayne Jacobsen helped Young to write the book because he couldn't get it published. None of the Christian publishing houses wanted to publish this.

1 Thessalonians 5:16-22
Rejoice always; pray without ceasing; in everything give thanks; for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus. Do not quench the Spirit; do not despise prophetic utterances. But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good; abstain from every form of evil.
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We can't force our own beliefs to anyone. God reveals Himself to all in different ways. Even if you consider the book evil, God can still use it to spark some faith into someone or at least to get them start wondering about God. Some people see God as a father l, some as a friend, as a savior, as a helper l, or as how God revealed Himself. Like every relationship is unique and each one of us is unique, so is our relationship with God. Each one is different so we can't really compare how you see God and how I see Him. He is a personal God. He can chose to reveal secret out of this world things to others but not to some.
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#62
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#62
I found not one reference to anything resembling Universalism in the entire book. Jesus consistently says he wanted to redeem anyone who trusted in Him to redeem them. That is just exactly what "Whosoever will" is talking about.

I am seeing that most of the objection to the book is Young's depiction of God as other than a stern old white man with a long beard, wearing a robe. They don't even mention God being also seen by Young as an older American Indian male after he had worked through his hatred of his own father, and the guilt he had of poisoning his own drunken "child and wife beater" of a father.
 
Corbinscam

Corbinscam

Senior Member
#63
Jul 17, 2016
560
35
28
#63
Would Jesus have even been what we view as a Christian? I really doubt it.

Biblically all roads don't lead to the same place. But I believe that God is capable of leading someone from darkness and towards Jesus from any religion or lack of religion. Jesus was never about religion.

I may be way off but I see it like this. God can speak to the heart of any person....no matter who or what they know and lead them into truth. And if they're following the truth as it is revealed to them then they're doing everything they can and I simply can't see God refusing them. I don't believe it takes any certain brand of Christianity.
 
hornetguy

hornetguy

Senior Member
#64
Jan 18, 2016
6,945
1,563
113
#64
If the term "Christian" has become associated with "bad" practices, or beliefs, then, by all means don't call yourself a Christian.

I prefer to tell people that I am doing my best to be a follower of Christ.. of Jesus. This will hopefully bypass the negative connotations that "the world" has put on the term "Christianity". I prefer to have people see me (accurately, I hope) as a simple student/disciple/follower of Jesus.... NOT as the stereotypical "Christian" who has already achieved completeness...

I agree with Willie that Jesus did not want "Christians" like the stereotype depicts.... he wants followers.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#65
#65
hornetguy said:
If the term "Christian" has become associated with "bad" practices, or beliefs, then, by all means don't call yourself a Christian.

I prefer to tell people that I am doing my best to be a follower of Christ.. of Jesus. This will hopefully bypass the negative connotations that "the world" has put on the term "Christianity". I prefer to have people see me (accurately, I hope) as a simple student/disciple/follower of Jesus.... NOT as the stereotypical "Christian" who has already achieved completeness...

I agree with Willie that Jesus did not want "Christians" like the stereotype depicts.... he wants followers.
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Rather, I see it as an opportunity to explain to them what it actually means to be a Christian.
 
hornetguy

hornetguy

Senior Member
#66
Jan 18, 2016
6,945
1,563
113
#66
FreeNChrist said:
Rather, I see it as an opportunity to explain to them what it actually means to be a Christian.
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While I agree with that sentiment, in practicality, most people will believe what they "see" in all the others that profess Christianity but don't even try to actually live it.

If you are living the life Jesus wants us to live, and calling yourself a mere follower of Jesus, others will SEE your life and think "now THAT is what a Christian should be" ..... you will be approaching them from a positive viewpoint, instead of starting out with a negative viewpoint, and trying to prove them wrong in their stereotype.

Much like a Muslim, who tries to do his best to live at peace with the world, but gets stereotyped by the many violent Muslims that want to kill anyone who doesn't believe the same way they do.

It's difficult to get past a widely held stereotype.
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#67
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#67
FreeNChrist said:
Rather, I see it as an opportunity to explain to them what it actually means to be a Christian.
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And therein lies one of the difficulties we have created. (Just the fact that we feel we have a set of extraneous criteria that supposedly defines being a Christiaan)

What would your "list" be? Ya see?........ It will vary so greatly, depending upon whom you ask. Some will actually begin by talking about a required 'uniform', so to speak.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#68
#68
hornetguy said:
While I agree with that sentiment, in practicality, most people will believe what they "see" in all the others that profess Christianity but don't even try to actually live it.

If you are living the life Jesus wants us to live, and calling yourself a mere follower of Jesus, others will SEE your life and think "now THAT is what a Christian should be" ..... you will be approaching them from a positive viewpoint, instead of starting out with a negative viewpoint, and trying to prove them wrong in their stereotype.

Much like a Muslim, who tries to do his best to live at peace with the world, but gets stereotyped by the many violent Muslims that want to kill anyone who doesn't believe the same way they do.

It's difficult to get past a widely held stereotype.
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All the more reason to explain to them what a Christian actually is. And I would add, what a Christian is not.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#69
#69
Willie-T said:
And therein lies one of the difficulties we have created. (Just the fact that we feel we have a set of extraneous criteria that supposedly defines being a Christiaan)

What would your "list" be? Ya see?........ It will vary so greatly, depending upon whom you ask. Some will actually begin by talking about a required 'uniform', so to speak.
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Christ defines me.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#71
#71
Willie-T said:
Now, "see?" That might be a little confusing in doing that 'explaining' you first talked about.
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Why? What's confusing about telling others about Jesus?
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#74
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#74
Willie-T said:
We tend to beat a lot of phrases to death. One of those is "THROUGH Jesus Christ."

Just what does that mean? How did YOU (anyone) go THROUGH Christ? I did no more than believe that trusting in Him would somehow restore me to God.
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Willie - To find God through Jesus is more than trusting in Him would somehow restore you
to God.

A long time ago you expressed the point why did Jesus have to die upon a cross, why
not anywhere and even not on earth. Do you still feel you have not got an answer
to this question?

There is no other way to God and becoming a child of God except through Jesus and
the cross and all it represents.

You also stated you thought I had just got brainwashed into dogma.

My suspicion is you have lost your faith. You are showing all the signs yet
have in the past been so keen to put me straight on spiritual realities.

Possibly you have missed something very important in your spiritual journey.
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#75
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#75
PeterJens said:
Willie - To find God through Jesus is more than trusting in Him would somehow restore you
to God.

A long time ago you expressed the point why did Jesus have to die upon a cross, why
not anywhere and even not on earth. Do you still feel you have not got an answer
to this question?

There is no other way to God and becoming a child of God except through Jesus and
the cross and all it represents.

You also stated you thought I had just got brainwashed into dogma.

My suspicion is you have lost your faith. You are showing all the signs yet
have in the past been so keen to put me straight on spiritual realities.

Possibly you have missed something very important in your spiritual journey.
Click to expand...
Perhaps. No, I KNOW I long ago lost faith in believing in religious requirements. I once was like a lot of people here, believing belonging to a certain group would do me any good.
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#76
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#76
Willie-T said:
Perhaps. No, I KNOW I long ago lost faith in believing in religious requirements. I once was like a lot of people here, believing belonging to a certain group would do me any good.
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I suppose we are fairly different. I take the view I will believe people unless I
have a good reason not to. I also like to understand the why and how people come
to their positions, and not just accepting them.

So belonging has meant less to me than following and understanding. Maybe deep
down I am just very insecure or I discover actually everything is an approximation
of many peoples experiences and without a proper grasp of the why and how one
can get it very wrong.
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#77
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#77
PeterJens said:
Willie - To find God through Jesus is more than trusting in Him would somehow restore you
to God.

A long time ago you expressed the point why did Jesus have to die upon a cross, why
not anywhere and even not on earth. Do you still feel you have not got an answer
to this question?

There is no other way to God and becoming a child of God except through Jesus and
the cross and all it represents.

You also stated you thought I had just got brainwashed into dogma.

My suspicion is you have lost your faith. You are showing all the signs yet
have in the past been so keen to put me straight on spiritual realities.

Possibly you have missed something very important in your spiritual journey.
Click to expand...
I think I have always known the answer to that question. I don't remember the post, but I imagine I was being rhetorical in the asking.
 
G

Galatea

Guest
#78
#78
Willie-T said:
And therein lies one of the difficulties we have created. (Just the fact that we feel we have a set of extraneous criteria that supposedly defines being a Christiaan)

What would your "list" be? Ya see?........ It will vary so greatly, depending upon whom you ask. Some will actually begin by talking about a required 'uniform', so to speak.
Click to expand...
Why yes, there IS a required uniform. Matthew 22:11-12.
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#80
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#80
Galatea said:
Why yes, there IS a required uniform. Matthew 22:11-12.
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And how many people do you check out when you walk into church to see if they are wearing the right clothes? LOL

You.......... probably no one. But some "Christians" actually do look at people not wearing a coat and tie with disdain.
 
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