Do doctors heal?

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Depleted

Guest
#41
If this is true, you really are an expert on the beginning of Genesis, and others "really don't know this aspect of the Bible..."
Your also dead wrong when you say our bodies were not made to last forever. Read the first part of Genesis. You really don't know this aspect of the bible.
And Ariel's "thoughts on this subject are ignorant..."
I find your thoughts on this subject ignorant. And worse yet, you post them like their fact.
And then this...
Here is her original comment. "These bodies are not made to last forever." I simply refuted that comment. It is untrue. It is patently false. So I called her out on it, and she chose to tell me I insulted her because I stated the truth. It is dangerous for her to be posting things here that may mislead other people. She is leading them astray in this area, much as a ignorant comment, or a sinful deed by a Christian may turn someone away from the message of Christ. We have a higher calling and responsibility to be a little more careful in what we say and do, and yet she is making these statements like they are fact.

And I ask her how much has she studied the bible's nutritional comments? How many books has she read on the subject?
How many times has she tried this diet so she can say that she knows it doesn't work? How often has she fasted?
She should at least be a little humble and say, hey maybe I need to investigate this. Maybe Joseph knows a little bit about this. No shame there. No one can know everything. I know when I am not well versed in a subject I keep quiet, listen, and learn. I can always fact check it later on.
But some people here just type on in blissful ignorance stating things they have not seriously meditated on.

Our bodies were made to last forever. They won't last in this form forever, because of our sin. But they were created to last forever under the right conditions. The bible states it.
Her original statement is incorrect, just like the type 1 diabetes statement, assuming that is what she meant. She never replied on that, so I am guessing she may have been referring to that.

As far as some other people posting on this thread, whose posts I don't read, if they are putting their 2 cents in regarding nutrition and diet, if you take there advice, your going doen a broken path. They are beyond clueless about this subject. I know this because I have seen their comments on this site. They are both sick, and seeing pics of her, she is obviously overweight and on a diet that can't sustain health. In fact it is a diet of death.
The proof is always in the pudding. People who eat and live like I do, and I know plenty of them, are not sick, not on meds, are active. We run and exercise, sleep well, can do just about anything we did in our mid thirties, and have blood test numbers that show us to be at the same numbers of most people in their thirties. Many of us are in our fifties and older. One of them is a man who is soon to be 87 and is healthier then most people in their late forties onward. Just a coincidence, right?

Now look at some of the posters here in their fifties or older. They are the walking dead, yet have the audacity to pontificate about how food is not this or that, or can't do this or that.

Yes, lately I have been more blunt then usual, because you guys are Christians and are missing the mark. If you practice your spiritual life and if your understanding about the spiritual is at the same dim level as what the bible says about lifestyle and diet, some of you are in serious trouble.
This is the one group that I talk to (and I have spoken publicly to many different groups over the years) who are the ones who should get it, yet your some of the dullest recipient's to this message I have witnessed. Many atheists and tree hugger's have a keener insight to this then most of you. Your lost in this area, and when I tell you the scientific truth, when I tell you the results of this, you are either ignoring me, or think I am lying, or don't believe your eyes.
It's insane.
And then you want to say I am being to blunt or insulting.
Then how come you suddenly put on the brakes and took on "could it be" with Magenta? You are the expert. Why would you not know what is true in the beginning of Genesis?
It is a disagreement which there is not a clear answer. Could it be that the tree of life was the earth itself as the garden was and the earths atmosphere, and oxygen levels? Could it be the tree of life was Jesus Christ Himself, and that while we were sinless He sustained us in a way we can't understand?
Obviously I believe that whatever it was, however it worked, we were created to live forever.
Why? Here is why. Please tell me why you may think my conclusions wrong. They may be, but I doubt it. But if you think so, then I am always willing to listen with a neutral ear.
Why do our cells replicate, and even scientists have concluded they the cycle of cell growth death and replacement should be endless?
Why if one part of the equation been proven, the dietary aspect of it, do we conclude that the other things God said regarding our immortal physical life's are untrue?
The element of higher oxygen levels and atmospheric pressure back then is more a less a scientific given, having been supported by experiments in hyperbaric chambers, and in green houses with them and adjusted atmosphere levels with human and plants.
There was a firmament around the earth back then. That is just a way of saying that a icy ring was around the planet. It protected from x-rays and other harmful rays from space. We not longer have that. Maybe its possible that in the perfect bodies God created us in and in the perfect living environment it was protecting us? There is a lot of scientific evidence we are being bombarded now by these x-rays.
Do you think God creates anything in imperfection? He created us to live forever in that environment.
Do you know that the earth was probably vibrating at a different frequency back then? Did you know that science has invented instruments which can level off the vibrational frequencies of our bodies organs and bring thme into better balance and this helps people operate on a daily physical level better and heal faster. Could it be the tree of life was somehow connected to that?
There are many people who can extraordinary physical feats, impossible for most of us. Is it possible we are but a physical (and mental) shadow of what we once were
And truthfully, I have no idea how anyone could do this much interpretation of Genesis without a lick of proof of the theories and yet still perceive yourself an expert all the while calling others ignorant.
 
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FlowersnJesus

Guest
#42
Its getting hot in here. I see some people are at odds with each other. A lot of history, or is it in this thread? Don't answer. I don't want to know. It was a rhetorical.
I don't know nutrition to well. I know that when I eat better I feel better and look better. That is enough to convince me that proper food and exercise is very important.
I have been here only about 3 weeks and from what I can tell and what I remember my health coach told me Joseph seems to know his craft.
No doubt he can be more diplomatic. From what I can see though it looks like he wants to help people. If he is a nutritionist like he says, then he gets paid for his knowledge. I PM'ed him about 10 days and he was free with the info and everything he told me lined up with what mt health coach said. He also told me things my health coach never mentioned or did not know.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
58,744
28,144
113
#43
Adam was made in perfection by the our perfect. He doesn't make anything less then that, or He would not be the God we know. The earths magnetic poles and the gravity is perfect for human life, as is where we are from the sun. To say God creates imperfectly is not consistent with our God.
God created us with free will. I would not call that a imperfection. We were physically perfect, perfect as God defines it.
We can get into a whole discussion about if Jesus was "plan B" or not, but that is pointless. God does not view time and events the same way we do anyway.
Suffice to say, we were created, and placed in this pristine environment that God created for us to live forever.
If we had not sinned, why would Jesus need to have come in the form of man and die a horrible death for us?
The bible makes clear sin entered the world through mans actions, because of our free will, and that event is what caused the reason for Jesus's coming. I don't know anyone who would disagree with that.
If you want to say that Jesus was with us in some way or form in the Garden I agree, but again, that is not the point of all this.

I know you replied to my post in a different manner then I asked, which is fine.
Now that I replied to you directly with what you typed, can you please reply directly to the reasons I supplied about why I believe the bible supports man living being immortal by Gods "original" plan for us.
God defined what He created as "good," not perfect. Even "very good," but still not perfect. You have defined it as perfect against what Scripture specifically says. I understand why you do that and why you think that way and it is in a sense admirable that you think God cannot create anything less than perfect but that is not what Scripture says. Our God-given self will bent us away from God and cursed all of creation.

I did not respond to some of the rest of what you put in your first post because it is immaterial to the question at hand. It also came across as a bit new agey, even though I acknowledge that some of it had a Scriptural basis. However, this world was not made to last forever, either, for it shall pass away and a new heavens and a new earth be made in its stead, so your theology is a little off there. I never contested sin entering the world through the sin of Adam, so why argue it? It is the whole reason for the second Adam, and we are only made perfect in Jesus Christ.

Anyways we shall likely never see eye to eye on this and I am not interested in arguing such particulars. I stated my views which are Biblically sound. Scripture never states that man's soul is immortal aside from the saving grace of God found in faith in Christ's atoning sacrifice on our behalf out of His great love for us, and we attain to eternal life through abiding in that, no other way. Since Jesus was purposed from before the foundation of the world, the whole idea of a plan B as you say is off theologically as well. Sorry to be abrupt but I am at work :D
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
12,500
1,078
113
#44
yeah...thats kinda their thing
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
4,313
467
83
#45
God defined what He created as "good," not perfect. Even "very good," but still not perfect. You have defined it as perfect against what Scripture specifically says. I understand why you do that and why you think that way and it is in a sense admirable that you think God cannot create anything less than perfect but that is not what Scripture says. Our God-given self will bent us away from God and cursed all of creation.

I did not respond to some of the rest of what you put in your first post because it is immaterial to the question at hand. It also came across as a bit new agey, even though I acknowledge that some of it had a Scriptural basis. However, this world was not made to last forever, either, for it shall pass away and a new heavens and a new earth be made in its stead, so your theology is a little off there. I never contested sin entering the world through the sin of Adam, so why argue it? It is the whole reason for the second Adam, and we are only made perfect in Jesus Christ.

Anyways we shall likely never see eye to eye on this and I am not interested in arguing such particulars. I stated my views which are Biblically sound. Scripture never states that man's soul is immortal aside from the saving grace of God found in faith in Christ's atoning sacrifice on our behalf out of His great love for us, and we attain to eternal life through abiding in that, no other way. Since Jesus was purposed from before the foundation of the world, the whole idea of a plan B as you say is off theologically as well. Sorry to be abrupt but I am at work :D
I can pull up comments from bible scholars that say when God said it was good it meant perfection. We all not God is not a boaster. I can pull up comments from many scholars that say my post is supported by biblical interpretation and circumstance. But whats the sense. We just disagree. Not only on the points but on whose interpretation is correct supported by the bible.

As far as the new age stuff, I guess it could be a little bit. But every lie has some truth in it. New Ager's believe in the stars and "the universe" (how I dislike that term). and still even if they don't want to acknowledge it, God created them. As I said in another post, sometimes atheist's and pagan's have a better grasp of certain Christian principals then Christians do. Their minds are not encumbered by some of the things Christian minds can be cluttered with.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,892
9,626
113
#48
There is a cure in nature for every disease on earth. But the doctors won't tell you that, cuz they don't want to lose all their Benjamin's to natural cures. Gotta push those death pills, ya know.. just sayin'..
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
4,313
467
83
#49
There is a cure in nature for every disease on earth. But the doctors won't tell you that, cuz they don't want to lose all their Benjamin's to natural cures. Gotta push those death pills, ya know.. just sayin'..
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,972
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#50
it's all about His Light, His Purpose, His Love-
we reap what we sow, but oh, how we must care enough
to love ourselves enough to seek and obey His ways!

for us, we have found that to ride and float on His River of Life,
it reaps so many benefits, no matter the heartache, pain, despair. -
His River will take you where you need to go and give you His special peace, and healing
if you are willing to give up this evil world's enticements and lies...
 
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Deepdistress21

Guest
#51
Yes they do based on knowledge and experience and practice. it's not like they just magically heal you. They use education and tools and science to help/try to heal/fix whatever your body.
Same with anything else, like a really good artist. God isn't necessarily the one painting it but he's given you the ability and passion and designed you for that task/passion. What you chose to do with it is where free will comes in.
 
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FlowersnJesus

Guest
#52
Doctors are like Frankenstein, or is it Frankensteen? Whatever. Some movie fans may get that one.
Point is they try to one up God and just end up creating abominations.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#53
You Joseph know nothing of my beliefs, yet assume much and in your ignorance and pride you belittle my words.

I will entrust you and your attitude to God because i have no need to defend against false accusations.

But I will answer some of your inquiries so if you do decide to address me in the future, you will not be so ignorant.

Have I fasted?

Yes whenever God leads me to. Often enough my husband has made it his and the kids responsibility that I remember to eat.

Food is not one of my vices. When I was young, we were lucky to have a handful of rice a day. Today I eat whatever anyone places before me or asks me to cook for them with thanks to the Lord above for providing His love and substance.

When I first met my in-laws their concept of veggies was potatoes and green beans with bacon, since then they have included more salads and healthy meal choices.

See my flag...it's Cambodian. One of the most,healthy ethnic foods you can get...maybe a little spicy but mainly consists of rice, fruits, vegetables and fish...chickens were raised for eggs more than meet. Cows were for milk and plowing rice fields...that's how my mom grew up. That's the food i are growing up. Home raised veggies because we were too poor to buy them and my mom had a green thumb.

So you can continue in your pride and ignorance, but this thread was started to point out how God should be given thanks to our healing.

It was meant to point out that our ability to heal from the cuts and bruises we get from the world (sometimes by our own stupid mistakes, sometimes by violence from others)...either way, the healing ability of our bodies is an example of God's grace.

He didn't need to make us able to heal..a cut could have just killed us. We could have bleed to death. However, God's grace allows us to clot and heal.

The thread was suppose to point out God's love for us in His design of the human body.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#54
It is a disagreement which there is not a clear answer

1. Could it be that the tree of life was the earth itself as the garden was and the earths atmosphere, and oxygen levels?

2. Could it be the tree of life was Jesus Christ Himself, and that while we were sinless He sustained us in a way we can't understand?

3.Obviously I believe that whatever it was, however it worked, we were created to live forever.

Why? Here is why. Please tell me why you may think my conclusions wrong. They may be, but I doubt it.
4. But if you think so, then I am always willing to listen with a neutral ear.

5.Why do our cells replicate, and even scientists have concluded they the cycle of cell growth death and replacement should be endless?

6. Why if one part of the equation been proven, the dietary aspect of it, do we conclude that the other things God said regarding our immortal physical life's are untrue?

7. The element of higher oxygen levels and atmospheric pressure back then is more a less a scientific given, having been supported by experiments in hyperbaric chambers, and in green houses with them and adjusted atmosphere levels with human and plants.

8.There was a firmament around the earth back then. That is just a way of saying that a icy ring was around the planet. It protected from x-rays and other harmful rays from space. We not longer have that. Maybe its possible that in the perfect bodies God created us in and in the perfect living environment it was protecting us? There is a lot of scientific evidence we are being bombarded now by these x-rays.

9. Do you think God creates anything in imperfection? He created us to live forever in that environment.
10. Do you know that the earth was probably vibrating at a different frequency back then?

11. Did you know that science has invented instruments which can level off the vibrational frequencies of our bodies organs and bring thme into better balance and this helps people operate on a daily physical level better and heal faster.

12. Could it be the tree of life was somehow connected to that?

13.
There are many people who can extraordinary physical feats, impossible for most of us. Is it possible we are but a physical (and mental) shadow of what we once were
Doubt you want to listen to anything I have to say, but for those who are interested. I will give you a little more science and Bible and less new age mysticism....some of the science will be based on studies in Eastern medicine and some western.

1. Highly unlikely without twisting alot of scriptures.

2. Possible, especially if you look at scriptures about the tree of life in Revelation.

3. No "we" were not. Adam and Eve were.

4. Doubtful, you hold a grudge against me because I don't buy into how everyone would be healthier if they have up eating meat. Personally I could go vegetarian easily, but I don't think God demands it or the Bible says we must. Jesus ate fish and meat and He was perfect and sinless.

5. You should re-read the scientific papers of telomerase and how the copying of the DNA is not perfect. Its believed to cause aging. I have been spending more time reading the Bible and praying, but do remember the basics of it. I believe it's one of the things about our bodies that changed after the fall. Haven't read many papers by Christians knowledgeable in the subject, but I have developed a theory that many of the diseases and illnesses were introduced to the world after the fall. In my microbiology class, my teacher said we had a immune response receptor for ever known pathogen out there. God had already put that blueprint in our bodies. We get "sick" because our bodies are fighting off the invaders and sometimes our life style choices or previous illness can weaken our immune defenses.

Health and illness is more complex than a post on an internet forum. I just think it's worth noting the link between God's providence and our ability to fight off diseases.

6. Unless you are eating Kosher, it's not proven in a Biblical sense. But don't really care to debate the merits of vegan eating as measured by physical world standards versus the freedom given in the Bible to eat anything with thanksgiving.

7. ??? More plants, less people, more oxygen? You could go into how trees have been torn down for parking lots too but how does this relate to the OP?

8. We have a magnetic forcefield that reaches from the north and south poles that keeps alot of radiation from entering the troposphere. The mesosphere is cold and the gases help to break up meteorites before they hit the earth. All of it wonderful examples of God's grace and how He made this world able to support life. However your words about the garden of Eden is just conjecture and not really based on the Bible or science.

9. Read revelation 21 & 22 about how God will destroy and replace this earth and heaven with a New one

10. Nope, but sounds new agish

11. Eastern medicine knows more about the mind and the,nervous system....it's not magic, it's science the west has not yet had time,to experiment with...electricity, magnetism, sound waves carrying energy, brain synapses, etc.

12. No, not unless you buy into kundalini practices, which may be mysticism and demonic knowledge.

13. Its true the human body is capable of much.

Some can be accomplished by training and self control like Olympic athletes. Unlocking what God has given us. For example, yoga if it's just stretches to remind your body of how it used to move as a baby is not evil.

Some are the signs and wonders accomplished by demonic powers. For example, yoga where you are told to say mantras and worship false dieties by inviting them into your body in addition to stretchs, is evil and demonic


Anyway,,those are my thoughts on the topic. Research, pray, read your Bible and come to your own conclusions.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#55
There is a cure in nature for every disease on earth. But the doctors won't tell you that, cuz they don't want to lose all their Benjamin's to natural cures. Gotta push those death pills, ya know.. just sayin'..
It's called being resurrected in New bodies when Jesus comes.

Why such animosity towards doctors and medicine/pills? Or is that sarcasm? Sorry can't tell over the internet,

*****

Many of the pills are made from extracts of plants found in nature.

I remember a Magic School bus episode when Ralph was sick....the medicine was reinforcements in the battle and helped stop the germs from multiplying too fast.

Like a broken bone, doctors can help fix what is broken by setting it where it's suppose to be and stabilising it..however it's up to their person's body to actually heal.

Doctors should not take the place of God anymore than pastors or spouses...when you worship and have more faith in any person than you do God, then you have bigger issues than physical illness.