"Gay-Friendly" Churches

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Churches who say homosexuality is not a sin (and some even have openly gay pastors):

  • Should not be allowed to be considered churches.

    Votes: 17 48.6%

  • They're wrong, but if they want to call themselves "churches" that's their business.

    Votes: 7 20.0%

  • There's nothing wrong with that.

    Votes: 8 22.9%

  • Other?

    Votes: 3 8.6%
  • Total voters
    35
tribesman

tribesman

Senior Member
#41
Oct 13, 2011
4,621
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#41
TheGrungeDiva said:
Do I understand you correctly that you believe polygyny is okay, but homosexuality is not?
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I wrote my input because I believe they are two different matters which can not be compared.

I believe the issue of polygyny to be complex with not an always easy "yes" or "no" (just as in the Bible) while the issue of societal approved homosexuality would be an easy "no".

As you might know some traditional church families, with missions in african lands where polygyny is not uncommon, accepts that their members are polygynous (sometimes with restrictions like allowing converts who live in such family constellations, in other cases no restrictions at all).

Here is what Luther said on the issue:

"I confess that I cannot forbid a person to marry several wives, for it does not contradict the Scripture. If a man wishes to marry more than one wife he should be asked whether he is satisfied in his conscience that he may do so in accordance with the word of God. In such a case the civil authority has nothing to do in the matter." - Martin Luther, De Wette II, 459, pp. 329–330.
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M

Moe

Guest
#42
#42
The Bible speaks of the apostate church in the end times, so we need to hold fast to the word and let the only righteous and true judge determine their out come and that is God Him self. He does not tell us to judge them, he simply teaches that we are not to have thing to do with them..Cheers
 
Deadtosin

Deadtosin

Banned
#43
Mar 18, 2011
2,540
22
0
#43
a church is a body. If the pastor is doing his job he has been a light by example, and soon the whole body is lit. If then a pastor sins and falls away from the narrow path, he and the congregation should pray for him like any other member of the body that has fallin ill. Lay hands if necessary. The light in each member of the congregation should then be enough to see the entire church through this dark time. But God forbid the flock follows the pasture's foggy view through the deception of sin.

"And if the right eye offend you, pluck it out, and cast it from you: for it is profitable for you that one of your members should perish, and not that the whole body should be cast into hell."

To address live and let live churches. We do not have the job of cleansing the whole world. The world was lost to begin with. Are there false doctrines? yes, are there false prophets? you bet. We should simply be lanterns wherever we go. Be it of God, or satans churches, I am but a light: shining where God leads me. We should all be of the same mind. God bless each of you :)
 
O

OFM

Guest
#44
#44
DEAREST SIR BROTHER IN CHRIST YOUR RIGHT ON THIS I SEE JESUS IN YOU IN YOUR WRITING AMEN 4 THAT UR A TRUE "LIGHT-BLESSING " HERE THANX 4 SHARING,BEE BLESSED ALLWAYS AMEN......
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#45
Dec 19, 2009
27,513
128
0
71
#45
TheGrungeDiva said:
I was thinking about this the other day. I know we've been arguing about this a lot lately, but it seems most of us here on CC are coming to a sort of ... well, not an agreement, but a truce. It seems that those who are more liberal, are leaning more towards "yes, it is a sin, but we shouldn't judge ... love the sinner, hate the sin," and those who are more conservative / traditional are leaning more towards, "yes, it's wrong, but it's no more wrong than any other sin, so we shouldn't pick it out for special treatment.

It seems to me that as soon as these two sides start coming together, start almost reaching a truce, someone will bring up, "Yes, but what about those churches that are ordaining gay ministers?"

And here's my thinking on that.

There are a lot of churches (denominations) out there who teach things that I think are wrong, that go against the Bible as I understand it. I could bring up a lot of examples, but probably one of the best is the churches who celebrate "closed communion." Catholics and some Lutherans say that if you are not a member of their denomination (some would even say you have to be a member of that particular parish) you may not partake in the Eucharist (communion). Now, that seems so very wrong, and not at all what Jesus would want. Jesus shared that meal with his disciples -- including one who was that very night going to betray him, and another who was going to deny him three times over the next 12 hours. If Jesus could share this meal with these enemies, certainly we should celebrate the meal with anyone who wants to come. After all, it is not "our" table to allow or deny attendance: it is God's.

But Catholic and Lutherans teach differently, and have very good reasons for teaching so. (They believe that if you partake of the sacrament without "right understanding" you do so to your own damnation, so it is really out of love for the non-member, that they don't want that person unwillingly damning themselves ... maybe one of my Catholic or Lutheran friends can explain it better than that.) I disagree with them, but I'm not about to tell them that they're "not allowed" to have their own rules in their own denomination. When I worship at a Catholic Church, or at a Lutheran church that has this rule, I abide by their guidelines, and out of respect for them, do not partake in their Eucharist. I might grumble a little, but ultimately, I have no right to tell another church what to do.

I wonder if we can be the same with these churches that allow for gays -- even openly gay ministers? I could even see saying, "Well, they certainly aren't Christian," -- but then, Unitarians aren't Christian, and they have churches, so I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Can we "live and let live," knowing that these denominations may be completely wrong, even grumbling about it, but in the end allowing them to operate as they see fit?

Open to hearing what others have to say.
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It is not my wish to harass homosexuals, but I do get upset when churches give their blessing to sin, and homosexuality clearly is a sin.
 
O

OFM

Guest
#46
#46
WE NEED TOO ALLWAYS GO ACCORDING TOO GODS HOLY TRUE PURE WORD SPIRITUALLY AND ALLWAYS LIVE ACCORDING TO ALL OF IT ALLWAYS.JESUS IS NOT A LIBERAL AT ALL,
 
tribesman

tribesman

Senior Member
#47
Oct 13, 2011
4,621
281
83
#47
tribesman said:
...As you might know some traditional church families, with missions in african lands where polygyny is not uncommon, accepts that their members are polygynous (sometimes with restrictions like allowing converts who live in such family constellations, in other cases no restrictions at all).
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I will add that the lutheran church of Liberia not only admit pologynous families as members, they also perform such marriages.
 
ChosenbyHim

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
#48
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
114
63
#48
TheGrungeDiva said:
I was thinking about this the other day. I know we've been arguing about this a lot lately, but it seems most of us here on CC are coming to a sort of ... well, not an agreement, but a truce. It seems that those who are more liberal, are leaning more towards "yes, it is a sin, but we shouldn't judge ... love the sinner, hate the sin," and those who are more conservative / traditional are leaning more towards, "yes, it's wrong, but it's no more wrong than any other sin, so we shouldn't pick it out for special treatment.

It seems to me that as soon as these two sides start coming together, start almost reaching a truce, someone will bring up, "Yes, but what about those churches that are ordaining gay ministers?".
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Well the phrase "love the sinner, hate the sin" is not Scriptural. We are to tell the truth in love (Eph. 4:15). Which means we cannot compromise with the sodomites. Sodomite friendly churches are apostate churches that have compromised with the wicked.

You see if you had a visiting minister come to a modern church and preach the truth to them from the pulpit. Probably about 90% of those sitting in the crowd would get infuriated at him and would want him to leave and to not come back because they don't want the truth. They want to hear smooth preaching where there is no condemnation and no preaching of judgment on sin.

And that's what you have today. Also while all unrighteousmess is sin (1 John 5:17), not all sin is treated the same. Just like not all sin is called an abomination. Sodomy is a very serious and grievous sin. What other sin in the Bible brought such a serious judgment on a whole city like the sin of Sodomy did?

Read the account of Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis 19.

Read Romans 1 and you'll see that Sodomy is one of the major sins that a whole nation gets turned over to when a nation forsakes God and His word. And that's exactly what is happening to America right now. Also Sodomy is the sin both men and women turn to when they are given over to a reprobate mind (again read Romans 1).
 
Nautilus

Nautilus

Senior Member
#49
Jun 29, 2012
6,488
53
48
#49
im pretty sure sodomy in a marriage isnt the cause of a reprobate mind but rather because it feels good.
 
R

reject-tech

Guest
#50
#50
Food for thought -

Was Judas openly gay, and yet still hand picked to be a disciple?
Was his betrayal to make the crowd think Jesus was also gay?
What if it wasn't so much a problem that Jesus claimed to be the son of God, but rather the idea that a gay man would claim it? And Judas suddenly gave them a new false persona of Jesus and new ammo to accuse?

Because by no stretch of sensible imagination is it conceivable that this crowd would not have known Jesus on sight.
What if the betrayal by way of kiss was not to identify Him, but to falsely re-identify Him?

That's why I'm very careful not to condemn gay people. They need to have exposure to the gospel, and most churches cut them off at the door, when I know for a fact that some "straight" members go home and sodomize their willing wives and both somehow think it's ok.
 
C

Christaly

Guest
#51
#51
Homosexuality IS a sin. It is written in Leviticus "If a man lie with mankind as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. Now, because Jesus death on the cross for our transgressions, man has the chance to repent of their sins instead of being put to death. Yes homosexuality is wrong in the eyes of God. And that's exactly the reason why we as Christian should know good from evil, having the Holy Spirit as our helper makes this even better.
A church is a place of God. Christians should make sure God is welcome in that church, the Holy Spirit. Agreeing with things of this world makes you the same as the people of the world. It is written in Romans 12:2 "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is the good, and ACCEPTABLE, and perfect will of God. "Grater is he who is in me, than he that is in the world. We should make sure that Christ is in us. We can do so by abiding in his world, by knowing what wrong is from right.

Last but not least, it is important that the truth is not changed to satisfy the mind, Romans 1:17-32. And it is written in verse 18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness. In the rest of the verses it is written that God leaves us go if we refuse to repent of our sins. It also says that some Christians know the truth, but still turn that which is wrong into good making it possible to commit their sins. in the scripture homosexuality is also mentioned under "unnatural affection" KJV (Verse 31).
In verse 32 death is described as the separation between God and man because of sin. But the most saddest thing, is that man often do not repent of their sins and there for stay separated from God.
It's simple, gay ministers are sinning against God. Homosexuality is a abomination in the Lord eyes and churches should not agree to such things. But this sin isn't to big for Jesus Christ to wipe away, just repent as a Christian.

God bless
 
L

letti

Guest
#52
#52
Love,the sinner,hate the SIN.
 
L

letti

Guest
#53
#53
Yes,it is,you have no hope to change them if you don't maintain love in your heart.That does not mean this is to be accepted,rebuke,pray if you can do nothing else.
 
ChosenbyHim

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
#55
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
114
63
#55
letti said:
you have no hope to change them if you don't maintain love in your heart.That does not mean this is to be accepted,rebuke,pray if you can do nothing else.
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Well, of course we are to have love in our heart. We are to care and have a love for the lost where we tell them the truth. Which means letting them know that their sin will land them in Hell if they do not repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
L

letti

Guest
#56
#56
In Matthew=44 thru 48,love for all,enemies,and otherwise,NO IT DOES!
 
L

letti

Guest
#57
#57
Hate,the sin not the sinner,For Christs desire is all would repent and be saved,so none shall perish.I'f possible to lead all to him showing love as a christian shows he is love ,that even a gay person can be given Christs forgiveness.I'f they will be led to repentance,and do this no more.
 
ChosenbyHim

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
#58
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
114
63
#58
Well yes Letti, a sodomite can indeed be led to repentance and can trust Christ. Repentance is key though. That person needs to repent first. Repentance is when a person realizes that they are a sinner and that they cannot save themselves. And then he needs to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for Salvation.

Also, Remember Letti, the wrath of God abides on those who reject the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
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Praus

Praus

Banned
#59
Dec 21, 2012
2,982
40
0
#59
ChosenbyHim said:
Not it is not. Show me where that phrase appears in the Scriptures.
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Matt 6:15 But, if yee forgiue not men their trespasses, neither will your father forgiue your trespasses.

Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Uengeance belongeth vnto me, I wil recompence, saith the Lord: and again, The Lord shall iudge his people.

Rom 2:1 Therefore, thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoeuer thou art that iudgest: for wherein thou iudgest another, thou condemnest thy selfe, for thou that iudgest doest the same things. 2 But wee are sure that the iudgement of God is according to trueth, against them which commit such things. 3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that iudgest them which doe such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the iudgement of God? 4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodnesse, and forbearance, and long suffering, not knowing that the goodnes of God leadeth thee to repentance? 5 But after thy hardnesse, and impenitent heart, treasurest vp vnto thy selfe wrath, against the day of wrath, and reuelation of the righteous iudgement of God:
 
Praus

Praus

Banned
#60
Dec 21, 2012
2,982
40
0
#60
ChosenbyHim said:
Well yes Letti, a sodomite can indeed be led to repentance and can trust Christ. Repentance is key though. That person needs to repent first. Repentance is when a person realizes that they are a sinner and that they cannot save themselves. And then he needs to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for Salvation.

Also, Remember Letti, the wrath of God abides on those who reject the Lord Jesus Christ.
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The Apostle Paul wrote to accept Jesus first.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confesse with thy mouth the Lord Iesus, and shalt beleeue in thine heart, that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saued.
 
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