Have we done something wrong?

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GuessWho

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
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#1
OK (one of the most used words on earth :p).

So, I want to talk about something which happened to me yesterday. But before talking about that I will post a funny commercial to Sprite which, I believe, reflects very good my topic.

Here it is:

Sprite - Have We Done Something Wrong?

Now, after you saw the commercial, here is what I will talk about:

1. Different education (or background).
2. Terribilism (revolt) in teen-age.

Yesterday, I had Mexican guests (my husband's work colleagues) in my house because it was the Independence day of Mexico. Among my guests there was this 15 year old boy who was introvert and after talking with him I learnt that he composes rock and metal music and also...that he is "bisexual". He confessed that to me after I asked him what does he write about in his songs. His mother, a very hard worker, was sitting right next to him. But we were talking in English and not too loud so that the others don't pay attention to our conversation.

What stroke me the most was not so much his "bisexuality" (which I couldn't take seriously), but his mental and ideological affiliation with the LGBT community. He didn't tell straight ahead "I'm gay", he said he and his band were "different" and then he showed me a multicolored bracelet he was wearing and told me it symbolizes the LGBT. He also told me that he cannot tell his parents because they would never accept that and they would never understand him.

So, I will tell you later what I answered him. I would like first to hear what would you have told him.

Do you believe the bisexuality of this boy is a sort of revolt against his family's catholic values similar to the revolt of the boys in the Sprite commercial against their parents values?

What do you think?
 
Feb 1, 2015
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#2
Lack of a real male model in his life, I'm not talking about how to be a heterosexual male (sexual aspect) exactly , but that too, but God's role that God, in his wisdom, designed him to be.

A sense of God's order in the house.

Absence spiritual guidance and leaders in his life.
 

GuessWho

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
1,227
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#3
Thank you passing-through for your input.

Now...it's true that I didn't give all the information regarding the boy's family. Mainly because I don't have it.

What would you say if your teen-age son confessed you he was gay? How would you react?
 
O

overthechill

Guest
#4
My initial reaction would be that the young man is probably not so enamored with actually being gay as he is with the movement or rebellion of the LBGT community. I believe young people his age are like the young chick's frustration with leaving the nest. He's challenged with inner urge to fly but without the skill to do so resulting in a dangerous fall into unprotected territory. This young man probably understands his music and his engagement with what he sees as a rebellious group as "flight". Escape from the confining mother's nest into the bigger world.

I would probably tell him that for one, he doesn't seem to be a man who needs these groups like the LGBT or even music to be different. His difference resides in his heart, but it blossoms by defining his own self. Self definition reveals itself in spirituality and the rebellious and the strong follow that very narrow road.
 

GuessWho

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
1,227
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#5
Overthechill,

Thank you very much for having responded.

I share wholeheartedly your opinion!

I think it is kind of a normal phase in teens to revolt against their parents. For instance, my mother was very very religious and my revolt was to say "I don't believe in God". And I knew that would come to her as a shock because she called pastors and her sisters to try make me change my mind. And I felt like the black sheep of the family. And it felt good. :)
I wanted to be different and that was probably my way of saying that I am no longer a child, that I also think and have opinions and views etc.

Also, I was what people would call the "MTV generation". Almost all of my models were famous singers or actors and my views and attitude were pretty much influenced and molded by them (and by music). I didn't realize that back then. I thought I was "being myself".

I feel that with this boy is similar.

When he confessed to me his "bisexuality" I believe he expected me to totally agree with him because he noticed that I am familiar with the kind of music he composes and listens to. I think he felt a sort of complicity between us. He was wrong.

He told me he was different and showed me his bracelet and mentioned the LGBT.

And I told him that I really don't know what to advice him because ... I have always been attracted by men and, well, I don't understand his attraction. To which he said "Oh, but I am attracted by girls too; or, for me it doesn't matter, it can be a boy or a girl. I am bisexual". He also said that in his songs he talks about respect; respect for the LGBT community. He also complaint that his parents don't agree with him painting his nails or his eyes with black. I realized that this is merely a phase and his bisexuality is ...not a serious thing, but rather a rebellious attitude.

I also told him more or less the same thing you said in your last paragraph: that he shouldn't base his identity on his style of clothing or in his sexuality because he is much more than that! I told him to search deeper for who he truly is. We are not the clothes we wear, not the house we live in, the car we drive or the profession we have. We are much much more than that!
 

GuessWho

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
1,227
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#6
The only thing that worries me is that he could get very much involved in the LGBT ideology to the point of really becoming one and really identifying himself as a bisexual.
 

Mitspa

Senior Member
Dec 11, 2014
16,040
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#7
The only thing that worries me is that he could get very much involved in the LGBT ideology to the point of really becoming one and really identifying himself as a bisexual.
Kinda sounds like he may have already crossed that line?
 

GuessWho

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
1,227
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#8
Kinda sounds like he may have already crossed that line?
I believe that there is still hope because since he said he was bisexual, this means he can chose, well, the girl. :p
 
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Siberian_Khatru

Guest
#9
I would like first to hear what would you have told him.
I would have offered him a Sprite.

But seriously: I suppose I would not have told him anything. Confidants are rare, and with an upbringing that frowns upon his preferences, it sounds as though he was relishing an opportunity to share what would normally be met with bigotry. I would not have told him anything. I would have listened.

Is his affiliation a revolt? Can't say for certain. I don't know his lifestyle. My guess: Doubtful, as he's keeping it under lock and key from those that would meet it with intolerance. He could be a closet rebel, though. :p

What stroke me the most was not so much his "bisexuality" (which I couldn't take seriously), but his mental and ideological affiliation with the LGBT community. He didn't tell straight ahead "I'm gay", he said he and his band were "different"...
That's a keen observation!
 

GuessWho

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
1,227
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#10
I would have offered him a Sprite.
Thank's for the laugh!

But seriously: I suppose I would not have told him anything. Confidants are rare, and with an upbringing that frowns upon his preferences, it sounds as though he was relishing an opportunity to share what would normally be met with bigotry. I would not have told him anything. I would have listened.
I didn't know what to tell him either. On CC I am very strict about my views on homosexuality. And this is the first time someone told me he was gay. So, I really didn't know what to say. I didn't say anything about my views on homosexuality because...I couldn't. You can't say "homosexuality is a perversion" and look the person in the eye. You just can't.

He didn't know how to talk to his parents about this and he sort of expected me to guide him. I told him that it would certainly come as a shock and I started to talk about the differences between them, about how his parents have grown with different values and how he was born in a society that kind of promotes the LGBT values. I talked about the sexual revolution in the '60s which took place in the USA but maybe not in Mexico so...I said that the cultural shock is way too much to handle for his parents. I also compared the cultural shock with the Spanish Catholic conquest of the mayans and aztecs. And I also said that this change comes almost as a rape (I can't believe I actually said "rape") for the people who were brought into a totally different culture.

I guess I wanted to imply that his parents are simply not culturally prepared for the LGBT movement and that they would simply not understand.

I did tell him that his parents love him very very much no matter what because whenever I meet his mom she only talks about him. He smiled at this.

Is his affiliation a revolt? Can't say for certain. I don't know his lifestyle. My guess: Doubtful, as he's keeping it under lock and key from those that would meet it with intolerance. He could be a closet rebel, though. :p
Thank you very much for your response.

Now, I know you said you would just listen to what he has to say. But imagine you are his parent and he is telling you this. What would you do, or say, or how would you react?
 
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Siberian_Khatru

Guest
#11
Thank you very much for your response.

Now, I know you said you would just listen to what he has to say. But imagine you are his parent and he is telling you this. What would you do, or say, or how would you react?
My pleasure. This is a good discussion. :)

My response would be one of compassion and of admonition (I couldn't give you my wording in that moment as it would be purely up to my mood and the situation at that time). I think you did well to make him aware of some things but still wear your kid gloves in how you responded. I'd follow a similar style.
 

GuessWho

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
1,227
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#12
My pleasure. This is a good discussion. :)

My response would be one of compassion and of admonition (I couldn't give you my wording in that moment as it would be purely up to my mood and the situation at that time). I think you did well to make him aware of some things but still wear your kid gloves in how you responded. I'd follow a similar style.
You know, ever since he told me his "secret" I only think about this. At first, I didn't want to tell my husband because I felt I would betray the boy (I even thank him for trusting me with such a matter). But, as a Romanian writer once said "a woman would rather die than NOT tell others the latest news she found about someone", I guess I am a good example of that kind of woman. I did make my husband promise he wouldn't tell anybody. And he promised. Actually, my husband doesn't even really care about this matter because he didn't give me any feedback. He doesn't care so much about this.

And that's why I made a thread about it. I prayed before clicking the "submit message" button and I really hope that if the boy is reading he won't feel betrayed. Your responses help me more than you can imagine.

Also, as I was thinking and thinking about our conversation I imagined that I said him other things.

I imagined that I told the boy that the shock his parents would feel would be no different than the shock he would feel if he came from school and found her mother with a shaved head and tattoos and confessing to him that she is no longer attracted by his father, but that she is attracted by women. I mean, I know I would be shocked if my mother did that :p.

Siberian, you must think I am crazy. Maybe I am. Just a little.

Thank you for listening to me.
 
G

Geuty

Guest
#13
We have done nothing wrong...there are two seeds in the world the seed of God and the seed of satan...too many people are willing to pacify wrongful behavior.
1)rebellion is the sin of witchcraft
2)be fruitful and multiply...how is a man lying with another man fulfill this
3)honor thy father and mother
he has turned aside after satan and yet we want to blame ourselves like we have done something wrong...has the veil not been lifted from your eyes?
 
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Siberian_Khatru

Guest
#14
That's some excellent discernment, GuessWho. Even if that young man found this thread, you've kept a level of anonymity that's respectful to him, and I don't get the impression you had a heart for gossiping about this. I hope you have peace about that. :)

Siberian, you must think I am crazy. Maybe I am. Just a little.

Thank you for listening to me.
You strike me as more of a thinker (sometimes they're crazy too) than a crazy person. Thank you for being open!
 

GuessWho

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
1,227
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#15
Hi Geuty,

Thank's for your response.

The title of the thread is taken from the Sprite commercial and is meant to reflect, in my opinion, that there is no such thing as a successful recipe of a good parenting. Eventually, your kid will ... grow up and stop being like you (he could be even the opposite of you!)

I don't want to pacify wrongful behavior; I just want to learn and understand.

1.) Rebellion is a sin. As well as a lot of other things. But since we were born with this fallen nature, sin is our reality. It's in our DNA, so to speak. And we can't ignore it. Think about the prodigal son. His rebellion eventually helped him in his growth and made him realize things that his good, obeying brother, didn't. I don't want to say that rebellion is an absolute must in our growth. But I know a lot of people (myself included) who did learn a lot from their mistakes and sins.

2.) They clearly don't fulfill the commandment "be fruitful and multiply". But I think that we also fulfill only the "multiply" part of the commandment, not the "be fruitful" one. I am talking about the fruits of the Holy Spirit.

3.) Yes! But my opinion is that you don't break this commandment if you don't submit to the projection your parents have about you.

I am not looking for someone to blame. As I explained earlier, the title is merely the leitmotif of the commercial. I used it as a starter. I am not really looking for the guilty ones. :)
 
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GuessWho

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
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#16
Yesterday I left very abruptly, almost in the middle of the conversation :D. Sorry.

I want to thank all who have responded so far. I would be interested to hear what does a teenager have to say about this.
 
Apr 8, 2015
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#17
I'm surprised he said anything to you. Noone I know would usually have that conversation with an older adult.... and if they did theyd have already worked out the likely reponse.
 

GuessWho

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
1,227
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#18
Thank you zoii for your reply. I actually had you in mind when I started the thread :). I mean I waited for you to come in, so to say, because you are 15 years old, exactly like the boy, and you could help me enter in his world.

Do you believe that he is more about respect for the LGBT community because, well, maybe he honestly believes in their fight and has a romanced idea about this community, or he is really gay and adheres to this values because of that?

I believe more the first one. I don't think he is really gay. He didn't tell me that he was in love with a boy. When I told him that I cannot help him because I do not understand his attraction, he said that he is not necessarily gay, that he could be attracted by a girl as well by a boy. He said that he was bisexual.
 
Apr 8, 2015
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#19
I cant speculate about his sexuality, who he likes n why. I do know though how I react when adults speak with me. I dont know him or how much he thinks about things - if he struggles with depression or anxiety or if his thoughts are superficial. I know I think probably too much about stuff and so when an adult just waltzes in and says "im an adult n i am saying youre wrong coz Im an adult therefore as an adult I am right"... I usually have stopped listening before they say three words n just nod my head until they go away.

I dont say anything personal about me to an adult in real life (except my counsellor n parents) - its easy here coz noone knows me - I can write things coz Im just looking at a screen.

So why is he talking about LBGT.... do you think maybe my generation have less issues about LBGT than older generations? Do you think maybe you see LBGT as a black n white thing? ie you are or your arent..... I dont n my friends dont
 

GuessWho

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
1,227
34
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#20
I cant speculate about his sexuality, who he likes n why. I do know though how I react when adults speak with me. I dont know him or how much he thinks about things - if he struggles with depression or anxiety or if his thoughts are superficial. I know I think probably too much about stuff and so when an adult just waltzes in and says "im an adult n i am saying youre wrong coz Im an adult therefore as an adult I am right"... I usually have stopped listening before they say three words n just nod my head until they go away.

I dont say anything personal about me to an adult in real life (except my counsellor n parents) - its easy here coz noone knows me - I can write things coz Im just looking at a screen.
I really appreciate that he trusted me and told me things that teenagers would not normally tell adults.

As a christian, I don't believe in coincidences. I think everything happens for a reason and with God's will. I felt frustrated that I couldn't give him a proper advice. I don't know if I helped him or not. I will go along with what Siberian said: that sometimes, just listening to someone is the best you can do. But I don't want to let things like this. I know we will meet again because his mother is my husband's work colleague and the company always makes parties for Christmas, Easter etc. and all the workers bring their families too. He also said he would show me some of the songs he composed.

So why is he talking about LBGT.... do you think maybe my generation have less issues about LBGT than older generations? Do you think maybe you see LBGT as a black n white thing? ie you are or your arent..... I dont n my friends dont
Yes, I believe young people are being systematically desensitized to beauty and love and are being poisoned, mainly through (what is considered nowadays) art (music and film industry play a big and important influence in this).

The LGBT is just one of the many tentacles of blind consumerism. That's how I see it. I was given a brochure by an LGBT activist when I was in Paris. And in that brochure there was this stupid question: "how do you know you are not attracted to a same-sex person if you never kissed him?".

I believe the boy is a genuine person, but I can't say the same thing about the LGBT.

Salvation is not an abstract, intellectual problem, but an existential one. That's why I don't want to play with words and minimize serious things. I want to find a proper way to tell this boy the truth.