HOMOSEXUALITY

I won't argue that being gay (having those desires) is not a choice. First, there is no good evidence on either side. Second, it doesn't matter. I'm proud. I was born that way. As a child I took care of myself and ran away from anyone who tried to take care of me. I have failed to love others out of an arrogant notion that it is my job to see to it that I'm safe and no one gets in. Someone else may be akin to greed. They were the child that stole toys, hoarded money, and never were giving. So what?!

To say homosexuality isn't wrong simply because a person was born that way is like saying that my pride isn't a sin because I was born with a propensity towards it. I don't think so. We don't excuse others sin because they were born to choose one over another, and we all have a pet sin.

Direct quote from you: "I do appreciate your care for others, but think about what is happening. Read the news. Homosexuality is a choice, not a race. You don't have to be homosexual."
http://christianchat.com/miscellaneous/68244-homosexuality-2.html#post1109393





Did you read your own post?




There are people whobelieve that God has decreed that African American’s are social inferiors andit is a grievous sin for such individuals to act as social equals towhites. This doesn’t give them the rightto discriminate.


BTW. This same bakery routinely makes cakes for weddingsfor dogs


Homosexuals are a minority.

A minority is a culturally, ethnically, religious orracially distinct group that has a shared sense of collective identity andcommunity that coexists with but is subordinate to a more dominant group withsocially shared rules about who belongs and who does not.


is comparing gays and lesbians to substance abusers andmurders treating them with dignity and respect?


So a racist baker can refuse to serve black people?

Lets try this again.

There is actually quite a lot of evidence that sexual orientationis inborn. There is however no evidence thatsexual orientation is a choice



I think what is being said is that discrimination against any minority is wrong in response to those who push the agenda of “choice” as a justification for discrimination.

List your references Mr. Tracey.

The most famous reference is LeVay's research called "A difference in hypothalamic structure between heterosexual and homosexual men", published in 1991 in the well-known academic magazine Science (Vol. 253 no. 5023 pp. 1034-1037), in which he performed an empirical study. The results show a significant correlation between the size of a man's hypothalamus and sexual preferences. In fact, on average a heterosexual man his hypothalamus is on average twice as big as a homosexual man's.

Yea, that study has been refuted by many other scientists.
To reduce such a complex thing as human sexuality down to the size of a certain organ, (or gland), is akin to what the eugenisists of Darwin's day did when measuring the skulls of Africans against Northern Europeans.
- It's called quackery.
If you believe that one I got a better one for you, see the Kinsey Report on Human Sexuality.(c.c.1948)
(Then after you've seen it, find out the test subjects he was using.)

It's funny that you first ask for references, which I post, but then respond with something like "many scientists". If you post some references of acknowledged peer reviews on this study, I will read them happily.

It's true that Kinsey's methods for his report was doubtful, but one bad scientist in favor of some hypothesis doesn't make all scientists bad.

Pure Intimacy - Responding to Pro-gay Social Arguments (Part 1)

Science vs. the "Gay Gene"

Are People Born Gay? Genetics and Homosexuality

Is the “born gay” theory accurate? | Unhappy Gay

The Myth Of The Gay Gene

Is There a Gay Gene? | CRI

Is There a Gay Gene? | CRI

http://www.cwfa.org/images/content/bornorbred.pdf

Among these you will find all the scientific references you need to refute this hypothesis.
- But if you need more I can keep going, the refutations are seminal.
In fact, if you google that study, you will pull up eight refutations for every sympathetic reference.

Don't be scared by the titles, read the references.

I read them, but none of them are scientific articles. I'm not saying they're total useless, in fact, sometimes they make good points. But none of them are scientific articles published in acadamic journals.

here is a short list:
Schwartz, G.; Kim, R.; Kolundzija, A.; Rieger, G.; Sanders, A. 2010."Biodemographic and physical correlates of sexual orientation inmen.".
Bailey JM, Dunne MP, Martin NG 2000.Genetic and environmental influences onsexual orientation and its correlations in an Australian twin sample.
Camperio Ciani, A.S. etal. Factors Associated with Higher Fecundity inFemale Maternal Relatives of Homosexual Men. J of Sexual Medicine Nov 2012
Iemmelo F. and Camperio, Ciani A. S. New Evidence of Genetic Factorsinfluencing sexual orientation in men. Arch Sex Behav, 2009
Schwarts, G. Et. Al. Biodemographic and Physical Correlates of SexualOrientation in Men. Arch sex behav 2010
Rice, W.R. Friberg, U and Gavirilets, S. 2012 Homosexuality as a consequence of Epigenetically Canalized SexualDevelopment Quarterly Review or Biology
Alanko K. etal. 2010Common genetic effects of gender atypical behavior in childhood and sexualorientation in adulthood Archives of Sexual Behavior
Blanchard R.,Lippa R. A. 2007. Birth order, sibling sex ratio, handedness, and sexualorientation of male and female participants in a BBC internet research project.Archives of Sexual Behavior
Camperio-CianiA., Corna F., Capiluppi C. 2004. Evidence for maternally inherited factorsfavouring male homosexuality and promoting female fecundity. Proceedings of the Royal Society B:Biological Sciences
Camperio-CianiA., Cermelli P., Zanzotto G. 2008. Sexually antagonistic selection in humanmale homosexuality. PLoS ONE
Gavrilets S.,Rice W. R. 2006. Genetic models of homosexuality: generating testablepredictions. Proceedings of the RoyalSociety B: Biological Sciences
Iemmola F.,Camperio-Ciani A. 2009. New evidence of genetic factors influencing sexual orientationin men: female fecundity increase in the maternal line. Archives of Sexual Behavior
Kalfa N.,Philibert P., Baskin L. S., Sultan C. 2011. Hypospadias: interactions betweenenvironment and genetics. Molecularand Cellular Endocrinology
Ngun T. C.,Ghahramani N., Sánchez F. J., Bocklandt S., Vilain E. 2011. The genetics of sexdifferences in brain and behavior. Frontiersin Neuroendocrinology
Ramagopalan S.V., Dyment D. A., Handunnetthi L., Rice G. P., Ebers G. C. 2010. A genome-widescan of male sexual orientation. Journalof Human Genetics
Hershberger, Scott L. 2001. Biological Factors in the Development of SexualOrientation.
Långström N, Rahman Q, Carlström E, Lichtenstein P 2010. "Genetic andenvironmental effects on same-sex sexual behavior: a population study of twinsin Sweden
Gringas, P.; Chen, W. 2001. "Mechanisms for difference in monozygoustwins
Wilson, G.D., & Rahman, Q. 2005. Born Gay: The Biology of SexOrientation
Vilain E 2000. "Genetics of sexual development"
Bocklandt S, Horvath S, Vilain E, Hamer DH February 2006 Skewing of Xchromosome inactivation in mothers of homosexual men
Mustanski BS, Dupree MG, Nievergelt CM, Bocklandt S, Schork NJ, Hamer DH2005 A genome scan of male sexual orientation
Blanchard R, Klassen P April 1997. "H-Y antigen and homosexuality inmen
Blanchard R 1997. Birth order and sibling sex ratio in homosexual versusheterosexual males and females
Bogaert, Anthony & S. Malvina April 2011. "Sexual orientation,fraternal birth order, and the maternal immune hypothesis
Camperio-Ciani A, Corna F, Capiluppi C November 2004 Evidence formaternally inherited factors favoring male homosexuality.
MacIntyre F, Estep KW 1993. "Sperm competition and the persistence ofgenes for male homosexuality
Zietsch, B., Morley, K., Shekar, S., Verweij, K., Keller, M., Macgregor,S., et al. 2008. "Genetic factors predisposing to homosexuality mayincrease mating success in heterosexuals
Lasco, M. S.; Jordan, T. J.; Edgar, M. A.; Petito, C. K.; Byne, W. 2002."A lack of dimorphism of sex or sexual orientation in the human anteriorcommissure
Kinnunen LH, Moltz H, Metz J, Cooper M 2004. "Differential brainactivation in exclusively homosexual and heterosexual men
Swaab DF, Zhou JN, Ehlhart T, Hofman MA 1994. "Development ofvasoactive intestinal polypeptide neurons in the human suprachiasmatic nucleusin relation to birth and sex
Rahman Q, Kumari V, Wilson GD 2003. "Sexual orientation-relateddifferences in prepulse inhibition of the human startle response
Berglund H, Lindström P, Savic I 2006 Brian response to putative pheromonesin lesbian women
Safron A, Barch B, Bailey JM, Gitelman DR, Parrish TB, Reber PJ 2007."Neural correlates of sexual arousal in homosexual and heterosexualmen".
Rahman Q, Wilson GD 2003. "Sexual orientation and the 2nd to 4thfinger length ratio: evidence for organising effects of sex hormones ordevelopmental instability
Hall LS, Love CT (2003). "Finger-length ratios in female monozygotictwins discordant for sexual orientation".
Lalumière ML, Blanchard R, Zucker KJ 2000. "Sexual orientation andhandedness in men and women:
Mustanski BS, Bailey JM, Kaspar S 2002. "Dermatoglyphics, handedness,sex, and sexual orientation
Geoff Sanders, Ph.D. and Marian Wright, B.Sc.1997, Sexual OrientationDifferences in Cerebral Asymmetry and in the Performance of Sexually DimorphicCognitive and Motor Tasks
Rahman Q, Abrahams S, Wilson GD 2003. "Sexual-orientation-relateddifferences in verbal fluency
Gladue, B. A., W. W. Beatty, et al. 1990 Sexual orientation and spatialability in men and women
Neave N, Menaged M, Weightman DR 1999. "Sex differences in cognition:the role of testosterone and sexual orientation".
Rahman Q, Wilson GD, Abrahams S (2003). "Sexual orientation relateddifferences in spatial memory
Blanchard, R. 2004Quantitative and theoretical analyses of the relationshipbetween older brothers and homosexuality in men
Blanchard, R & R.A. Lippa 2007Birthorder, sibling sex ratio, handedness and sexual orientation
CamperioC.A. 2008 Sexually antagonistic selection in human malehomosexuality
Mustansky, B.S. A genomewide scan of male sexual orientation
Rahman, Q 2005. "The neurodevelopment of human sexual orientation
Swaab DF 2004. "Sexual differentiation of the human brain: relevancefor gender identity, transsexualism and sexual orientation
Bogaert AF July 2006 Biological verses nonbiological older brothers andmen’s sexual orientation
Savic I, indstrum P 2008 PET and MRI show differences in cerebral asymmetryand functional connectivity between homo and heterosexual subjects
Sanders G, Wright M 1997."Sexual orientation differences in cerebral asymmetry and in theperformance of sexually dimorphic cognitive and motor tasks

Now let’s take a look at the scientific evidence that sexualorientation is a choice.






















Oh that’s right, there isn’t any

Big deal.
So you have a list of paid off researchers.
I guess this may come as a shock to you and Aerendyl but Jesus had an official record as a blasphemer in the official Roman courts of Judea until the city was sacked in 70 A.D.
Does that make the 'official' accusation true?
For every 'study' you list there are other refuting them.
It is total B.S. to blame genetics for your sin.
B.T.W. - Read Luke 4:6 as for following the zeitgeist of the age. - ("Oh my goodness, journals owned by a few publish certain things so they must be true!")
95% of the media is owned by five corporations.
- As well as these journals..

No, since blasphemy can't be tested empirically.

Do you honestly think homosexuality can?
Can any human behavior be tested empirically?
The combination of genetics and environment?
Ring a bell?

Yes. If an empirical study with a big control group shows that on average the hypothalamus of straight men is twice as big as the hypothalamus of homosexual men, then the causal relationship is highly signficant (p<0.001 in LeVay's study, in other words: according to math and statistic formulas the chance that the causal relationship is valid, is more than 99.999%).

41 cadavers is empirical to you?
19 of which were homosexual men that died of aids?
16 others were 'presumed' heterosexual men - six of which died of aids.
6 others were women presumed heterosexual, one of which died of aids.
- Really?
- - That's a quality assured test sample of the general population to you?
- - - It isn't to me. I used to work in Q.A. for the military - trust me, that sample wouldn't pass muster for even the most lenient mil. specs.
- - - - Forget 2.5%, or 5%, or even 12.5%
- - - - -That study is dodgy at best. - (Never pass a 9001 Q.A. test).