I'm an atheist. Ask me anything!

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Jun 4, 2018
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#41
According to atheism....
everything...that...happens in the nature....
happens...by chance....

i would like to ask you....

''The chance-ness'' - ''The accidental -ness''
can produce....a law....in the nature...???
No, not everything happens by chance. No one knows how or why the laws of nature exist. But things obey the laws of nature, they don't just behave randomly.
 

toinena

Senior Member
Mar 10, 2017
2,469
763
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#42
Very interesting indeed! It is always so cool to see connections between languages.


See, that doesn't sit right with me. Why would God give me ratio, if I need to ignore it to receive faith?
To receive life in Christ you have to die in yourself. To give up the fight and just accept Him as Lord.

If you think about what happened with Adam and Eve when eating the apple you see the Earthly knowledge and ratio that the serpent promised them was not from God. Through Him you will find the true ratio. And with that you will see things differently. As Angela said you need to be saved. As the protestant church here, I believe the Dutch church is also luke warm. It might be you needed to get out to be truly saved. That happened with me.
 
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LaVieEnRose

Guest
#43
I would say yes but I'm not sure I fit the definition. I don't know for certain that there are no supernatural things, but if there are, I don't think we can ever know about them.


I have a very vivid memory that one night, I woke up hearing very loud sirens. I went to the window to check, but I didn't see anything. I went to the bathroom to look out the window on the other side of the house, and I saw two fire trucks with flashing lights at the neighbors house. Since the sound of the sirens was so loud, I couldn't sleep, so I decided to look out the window for a while. I didn't see any fire, and I didn't see any people, so after looking for a few minutes I decided to go back to bed. This memory is very vivid, clear as day... except it never happened. I asked my neighbors about the fire the next day, and they said "what fire?". I still feel convinced that it happened, and yet it didn't, it was just a very vivid dream. I have also experimented with drugs at some point in my life. On one of them I felt absolutely euphoric. I felt that everything was right with the world, and that I would never feel sad again. This was caused by just a few miligrams of a substance. My point is that personal experience is very unreliable and can very easily be fooled.
People who experience conversion experiences are not dreaming, nor are they under the influence of any sort of substances. They are awake, lucid, and their senses are not impaired.

Conversion is not simply a state of euphoria or a sensory experience- this is why it is so difficult for us to describe our experiences to someone who has not been converted.

Are you here for our benefit or for yours?
 
#44
No, not everything happens by chance. No one knows how or why the laws of nature exist. But things obey the laws of nature, they don't just behave randomly.


Example
A roulette brings numbers ... Random numbers ...
these random numbers ... have no reasonable relationship between them ...

if we want numbers to come ... with a reasonable connection between them ...
with the specific series of numbers ...
for example
5 10 15 20 25 30 35
and after .... again the same series of numbers ....
5 10 15 20 30 35
and again...and again ....

this can not happen by chance ...

to come ...
5 10 15 20 25 30 35
again and again...

the chance has to be abolished ....

must intervene ... the law ...

which law ... will rule ... will act ... on roulette ...

in order that....

on the one hand ... not to come... other numbers ...
and the on other hand ... to appear only ...
5 10 15 20 25 30 35
with this unique series ...
again and again....


in fact...
the law...
must have the ability...

to discriminate...among the numbers....
to understand...to know...the value of any number...
to take a decision ...which number....must appear...every time...

that means....

law...must have....mind....

therefor....

the laws in the nature....shows us..

the existance....
OF THE MIND OF GOD...
 
Jun 4, 2018
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#45
People who experience conversion experiences are not dreaming, nor are they under the influence of any sort of substances. They are awake, lucid, and their senses are not impaired.
I know that. I just meant to illustrate that personal experience is not reliable. Even when fully awake and lucid it isn't. You only have to look at visual illusions to know that it isn't. Or hear witnesses of a crime all tell a different story of how it happened.

Conversion is not simply a state of euphoria or a sensory experience- this is why it is so difficult for us to describe our experiences to someone who has not been converted.
So what is it like, then? If the only way to know is to personally experience it, then we have a problem. Because like I said I don't trust my personal experience.

Are you here for our benefit or for yours?
Both?
 
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LaVieEnRose

Guest
#46
Were your parents converted Christians, or were they Christians according to your definition of Christianity?
 
Jun 4, 2018
151
17
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#47
Example
A roulette brings numbers ... Random numbers ...
these random numbers ... have no reasonable relationship between them ...

if we want numbers to come ... with a reasonable connection between them ...
with the specific series of numbers ...
for example
5 10 15 20 25 30 35
and after .... again the same series of numbers ....
5 10 15 20 30 35
and again...and again ....

this can not happen by chance ...

to come ...
5 10 15 20 25 30 35
again and again...

the chance has to be abolished ....

must intervene ... the law ...

which law ... will rule ... will act ... on roulette ...

in order that....

on the one hand ... not to come... other numbers ...
and the on other hand ... to appear only ...
5 10 15 20 25 30 35
with this unique series ...
again and again....


in fact...
the law...
must have the ability...

to discriminate...among the numbers....
to understand...to know...the value of any number...
to take a decision ...which number....must appear...every time...

that means....

law...must have....mind....

therefor....

the laws in the nature....shows us..

the existance....
OF THE MIND OF GOD...
Can I just say, your use of elipses is very annoying to read.

That series of numbers COULD happen by chance. It is highly unlikely, but unlikely things happen all the time. Your analogy of roulette does not make sense, because there it bears no relation to natural laws like gravity. Natural laws are not prescriptive like human laws that you can disobey. They are descriptive, meaning they describe what happens, not what should happen. You cannot disobey a natural law.
 
Jun 4, 2018
151
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#48
Were your parents converted Christians, or were they Christians according to your definition of Christianity?
My parents are still Christians. How would I know the difference according to you? I know that they believe wholeheartedly, and believe they have a personal relationship with Jesus.
 
Jun 4, 2018
151
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#49
To receive life in Christ you have to die in yourself. To give up the fight and just accept Him as Lord.

If you think about what happened with Adam and Eve when eating the apple you see the Earthly knowledge and ratio that the serpent promised them was not from God. Through Him you will find the true ratio. And with that you will see things differently. As Angela said you need to be saved. As the protestant church here, I believe the Dutch church is also luke warm. It might be you needed to get out to be truly saved. That happened with me.
That is inaccurate. Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. That has to do with morality, not ratio. That brings up another point that does not sit right with me. It also means that they could not have known that it was wrong to eat from it, since they did not have that knowledge yet. Sure, they disobeyed God, but they had no concept that that was wrong.

Imagine you tell a toddler not to touch a hot stove, and someone else tells them it is fine to touch the stove. The toddler touches the stove, and burns himself. Do you get mad at him for disobeying you and kick him out of the house? No, you console him and apply a bandage on his burn wound. You get mad at the person who told him it was fine to touch the stove. Not at the toddler, he didn't know better.
 
Jun 4, 2018
151
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#50
I'm going to bed now, I will respond to any questions again tomorrow.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
12,431
965
113
#51
What happens if you are wrong? What if God created you in His image and likeness? What will become of you when you stand before God and are judged with respect to your knowledge of Jesus Christ?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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LaVieEnRose

Guest
#52
Do you equate human life with other forms of life?

Why or why not?
 
#53
Renate


The Earth is mooving... around its axis ... and around the Sun ...
Earth does...allways...the same...periodical movements ...

I ask you...
Earth is mooving....by chance....or...by a (kinetic) law ...???

I ask You....
The kinetic law....to whom...Earth obeys....
has...logic...inside...itself....or not....???

You and I...and everyone...and the animals....we have feet....
the feet...are...on the lower part of the body
the feet are not....on the head....

I ask You....
the fact...that....the feet...of any creature...are down in the body....
happens by chance....
or by the law of creation...???

Iask You...

This low of creation....
that....the feet...of any creature...are down in the body....

has....logik...inside itself...or not...???

This logik....shous us...The Existance...OF A MIND....(THE MIND OF GOD CEATOR)...or not...???
 

LPT

Senior Member
Dec 24, 2017
1,442
479
83
#54
No, not everything happens by chance. No one knows how or why the laws of nature exist. But things obey the laws of nature, they don't just behave randomly.
No they don't, many folks know it's by intelligent design or should say accept that it is. many scienctist still struggle with this because in their minds they just can't accept a designed universe and everything in it. yea from the dust of the ground aka star dust.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
7,418
414
83
#55
I am not afraid of death. Dying, yes, because it is probably painful, but not death. If your mind simply ceases to exist, there is nothing to fear.
I'll tell you that for those who die whose sins are not covered by the shed blood of Christ, death is a lot more painful than the process of dying will be. It's not your mind i.e. your physical body that you need to worry about Renate, but where your spirit goes after the death of the body. That's an awfully big gamble to leave this world without Christ, thinking that you know what happens at the time of death. And there's no coming back from that once you find out the truth.

Scripture states that for those in Christ, at the time of death the spirit departs from the body and goes to be in the presence of the Lord. In opposition to this, when the unbeliever dies, their spirit departs and goes to Sheol/Hades, where like the rich man, he will be in torment in flame and there is not coming back, no do overs.

You can continue to be smug in thinking that when you die that non-existence follows, but you won't know the answer until you take your last breath, where at which time you find out the truth, which is that when you depart from your body at the time of death, your spirit will be conscious and aware. Oops! Too late!

These people who have been committing suicide lately obviously did so because there were some things in this life that they couldn't deal with and their thinking was to commit suicide in order to fade to black, become non-existent. But I can tell you according to the word of God, that's not what happens. If their faith was not in Christ, the moment they killed their body, their spirit departed and went down into Hades to begin their punishment because of their sins against a Holy, Righteous and Eternal God.

Life and death are both states of eternal, conscious existence. An individuals status with God (reconciled or unreconciled) is what determines whether that individual will exist in a state of life or death. Death is not non-existence, but complete loss of well being in separation from God, eternal ruination. Where life is eternal existence in the kingdom of God.

This is the reason that Jesus appeared as a human being, so that He could kin Himself with us, live a life without sin, meet the righteous requirements of the law, take upon himself the wrath that we deserve and pay the penalty for our sins. Those who have faith in Him are credited with righteousness and have been reconciled.

I don't believe in God, does not equal God does not exist. Those who are unbelievers, who die without Christ, are not exempt from judgment and will be held accountable for every sin they ever committed.

Something for you to really think about!
 
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