My rant ,,,,, Guns and America

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jun 1, 2016
89
3
0
#1
Look,,,,,, before I state my perspective on the Gun issue, here is some info about me
  • I have guns, a few shotguns and pistols
  • I have Military training, I was Artillery for 6 years
  • I am from the South, I am a rebel blooded American - live in Gun country
  • I have many military friends who personally own AR15's
Ok, so I am well aware of the 2nd amendment - and for many years I supported it. Slowly, with my experience and opinions, I am thinking more for our Country than for our wants and dreams. The AR-15 and many other semi-automatic guns are collected all over this country for the purpose of treating it like a toy, and not what our constitution meant in my loose interpretation of the 2nd amendment. We need to have Guns to protect ourselves from the Government and outside threats. But,,,,,, how far can this statement go? How far are you willing to shoot up in order to defend our Country and House? Lets look into the reality of the situation. Most gun owners in the South are deer hunters, and have little to no military BRM training at all. A shot gun is their best choice to defend their land because of the scatter and loud suppression effect. If a crazy man or woman uses a shotgun to go on a rampage, at least their capability of killing people is limited to the number of shells and blast of a shotgun. Even with a 6 shooter, 6 shots and they have to reload, giving the "good guy with a gun" argument a better chance at fighting back.

Yes, even if we made a law, if a bad man wants to get a gun that is semi-automatic or fully automatic, they will find a way. BUT to counter this argument,,,,,, its about the numbers, the likelihood of it happening. We cant prevent all mass shootings, but what we can do is make it hard as heck for them to get a gun. We can pass laws that will allow more screenings and paperwork to prevent someone with ill intent from arming themselves. I am tired of seeing and hearing about mass shootings! We have to do something about it!

Another issue I believe can stop the high frequency of shootings is faith and family. We need to increase our community involvement! When we are social, we are less likely to be depressed and angered. We need to do anything we can to mitigate the chances of evil and demons from taking over. We have to be more active in being the light, helping the needy, and most of all - keeping families together and talking. We are so individualistic in this country!

I dont have all the answers, and I dont have the strongest voice. But what i can do is hopefully inspire someone who has a voice to say something and make action happen, We need better regulations, we need more community involvement, we need families to help each other and love one another. One action can have little effect on the Nationwide issue, but if we can work on all the factors can help mitigate the chance of evil from happening, then we should be the light!

  • make automatic weapons either illegal or hard to aquire
  • pull the community together! join more events, inspire more participation, and help the needy
  • improve our education and show our future generations that they can do something about it, we are all in this together
  • This individualistic mindset needs to change, we cant go on life thinking for ourselves and sticking our face in a phone or computer 24/7,,,, that wasted time could have been spent with friends, faith, and family
  • We have so many churches in this land, and from may faiths. Why cant we get together and conduct events within the community? more soup kitchens, more support for those in crisis, more counsel for those who are lost and in a tempest trifle,


    I pray for the Families of those involved, any family that has lost a loved one, from a child to an elder, has so much pain in their hearts. I pray that they can find the strength that God has given them and to find peace.
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
12,205
336
83
#2
Look,,,,,, before I state my perspective on the Gun issue, here is some info about me
  • I have guns, a few shotguns and pistols
  • I have Military training, I was Artillery for 6 years
  • I am from the South, I am a rebel blooded American - live in Gun country
  • I have many military friends who personally own AR15's
Ok, so I am well aware of the 2nd amendment - and for many years I supported it. Slowly, with my experience and opinions, I am thinking more for our Country than for our wants and dreams. The AR-15 and many other semi-automatic guns are collected all over this country for the purpose of treating it like a toy, and not what our constitution meant in my loose interpretation of the 2nd amendment. We need to have Guns to protect ourselves from the Government and outside threats. But,,,,,, how far can this statement go? How far are you willing to shoot up in order to defend our Country and House? Lets look into the reality of the situation. Most gun owners in the South are deer hunters, and have little to no military BRM training at all. A shot gun is their best choice to defend their land because of the scatter and loud suppression effect. If a crazy man or woman uses a shotgun to go on a rampage, at least their capability of killing people is limited to the number of shells and blast of a shotgun. Even with a 6 shooter, 6 shots and they have to reload, giving the "good guy with a gun" argument a better chance at fighting back.

Yes, even if we made a law, if a bad man wants to get a gun that is semi-automatic or fully automatic, they will find a way. BUT to counter this argument,,,,,, its about the numbers, the likelihood of it happening. We cant prevent all mass shootings, but what we can do is make it hard as heck for them to get a gun. We can pass laws that will allow more screenings and paperwork to prevent someone with ill intent from arming themselves. I am tired of seeing and hearing about mass shootings! We have to do something about it!

Another issue I believe can stop the high frequency of shootings is faith and family. We need to increase our community involvement! When we are social, we are less likely to be depressed and angered. We need to do anything we can to mitigate the chances of evil and demons from taking over. We have to be more active in being the light, helping the needy, and most of all - keeping families together and talking. We are so individualistic in this country!

I dont have all the answers, and I dont have the strongest voice. But what i can do is hopefully inspire someone who has a voice to say something and make action happen, We need better regulations, we need more community involvement, we need families to help each other and love one another. One action can have little effect on the Nationwide issue, but if we can work on all the factors can help mitigate the chance of evil from happening, then we should be the light!

  • make automatic weapons either illegal or hard to aquire
  • pull the community together! join more events, inspire more participation, and help the needy
  • improve our education and show our future generations that they can do something about it, we are all in this together
  • This individualistic mindset needs to change, we cant go on life thinking for ourselves and sticking our face in a phone or computer 24/7,,,, that wasted time could have been spent with friends, faith, and family
  • We have so many churches in this land, and from may faiths. Why cant we get together and conduct events within the community? more soup kitchens, more support for those in crisis, more counsel for those who are lost and in a tempest trifle,


    I pray for the Families of those involved, any family that has lost a loved one, from a child to an elder, has so much pain in their hearts. I pray that they can find the strength that God has given them and to find peace.


i don't mean to knock your post. I can tell you are very sincere.But tell me honestly,do you think the Vegas shooter,the church shooter and other mass shootings,do you think they wouldn't have found another way? With information at our fingertips these days,do you not think they will find a way? We have laws on the books right now that are not being held to. People with murder in their hearts are going to find a way.As my father always says "a lock on your door only keeps an honest man out." A criminal,an evil person with intent will find a way. Look how many were killed in Paris with just a truck.

If we want to change things we need to stop being pc.When we see something,when our gut tells us "this person is a danger" we need to say something and then the authorities need to ACT! In most of these cases when people are interviewed they had a gut feeling something wasn't right about the person.The church shooter should have been seeing the world from behind bars.Why was he free? He was a wife beater and a child abuser. But no one wants to admit that there are people with evil in their hearts.They keep asking "why"? And I shake my head.The Bible has already told us why,we were born in sin and shapen in iniquity.Without Him we are rotten to the core. But the church doesn't want to tell us that. We even changed the hymn from "such a worm as I" to "such a one as I" because heaven help us if we see ourselves as sinners in need of the mercy and grace of God! The church has let down and someone once said,the lower the church goes,the world sinks lower. We are told to be both salt and light. Rib salt in a wound and see how you feel.The church is not doing what we were called to do and evil is rampant.
 
Jun 1, 2016
89
3
0
#3
i don't mean to knock your post. I can tell you are very sincere.But tell me honestly,do you think the Vegas shooter,the church shooter and other mass shootings,do you think they wouldn't have found another way? With information at our fingertips these days,do you not think they will find a way? We have laws on the books right now that are not being held to. People with murder in their hearts are going to find a way.As my father always says "a lock on your door only keeps an honest man out." A criminal,an evil person with intent will find a way. Look how many were killed in Paris with just a truck.

If we want to change things we need to stop being pc.When we see something,when our gut tells us "this person is a danger" we need to say something and then the authorities need to ACT! In most of these cases when people are interviewed they had a gut feeling something wasn't right about the person.The church shooter should have been seeing the world from behind bars.Why was he free? He was a wife beater and a child abuser. But no one wants to admit that there are people with evil in their hearts.They keep asking "why"? And I shake my head.The Bible has already told us why,we were born in sin and shapen in iniquity.Without Him we are rotten to the core. But the church doesn't want to tell us that. We even changed the hymn from "such a worm as I" to "such a one as I" because heaven help us if we see ourselves as sinners in need of the mercy and grace of God! The church has let down and someone once said,the lower the church goes,the world sinks lower. We are told to be both salt and light. Rib salt in a wound and see how you feel.The church is not doing what we were called to do and evil is rampant.
when you ask if they would have found another way, of course! my argument is for mitigation. with your question's intent, and knowing that im sincere, do you think that if we had a more regulated system and less automatic guns in our country, that we would see less deaths? I believe so! The evil is out there, and we should make it harder for them! we can make it very difficult for them with what i have argued for. And, with your question, i say you are right. But, does that mean that, because that statement is right, that we just not do anything about it? to allow automatic weapons to stay available? We can fight this! the only people who should have these guns are the military in my opinion. The people should be ok with shotguns and 6 shooters, we dont need toys that can cause death in the double digits. the argument that says the bad guy will get them either way is the same as giving up and hoping that there will be a good guy around. The issue here is, I can never show proof of a mass shooting that never happened because of a regulation or less access to weapons, but i will always be shown the apparent shooting or murder that happened anyway. Its through mitigation that we have to fight! Through laws, through faith, through friends, through bonding and loving each other!

Lets look into a situation that is hard to explain, a meta-analysis of sorts

Gun Control in Australia, Updated - FactCheck.org

the above link is Australia, and since 1996 there has been less homicides and less guns. BUT! with statistics, we have to find significant results in why or why not a factor was affected. Till this day, we may never know what truly works in helping to stop gun violence and mass shootings. according the this link below, since their 1996 law, they have seen 59% less mass shootings! Too many factors to understand why, but we know its happening.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/10/australia-gun-control/541710/

But what i do know is that they are trying,,,,, while we are not. Columbine is no longer on the the top ten most violent shootings in America, :(
 

Innerfire89

Senior Member
Aug 23, 2017
586
16
0
#4
I can't imagine we can do all that much, even if military stlyed weapons were banned there would still be plenty around. In the past, mass murders were done with pistols and rifles, like guy that snipped people out from the clock tower in Colorado. The only difference now is higher death tolls.

People use guns as toys? That's not true.
[Uses laser sight on Mac 11 to play with cat] Lol.
 

Depleted

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2015
22,166
480
83
Philly, PA, USA
#5
Look,,,,,, before I state my perspective on the Gun issue, here is some info about me
  • I have guns, a few shotguns and pistols
  • I have Military training, I was Artillery for 6 years
  • I am from the South, I am a rebel blooded American - live in Gun country
  • I have many military friends who personally own AR15's
Ok, so I am well aware of the 2nd amendment - and for many years I supported it. Slowly, with my experience and opinions, I am thinking more for our Country than for our wants and dreams. The AR-15 and many other semi-automatic guns are collected all over this country for the purpose of treating it like a toy, and not what our constitution meant in my loose interpretation of the 2nd amendment. We need to have Guns to protect ourselves from the Government and outside threats. But,,,,,, how far can this statement go? How far are you willing to shoot up in order to defend our Country and House? Lets look into the reality of the situation. Most gun owners in the South are deer hunters, and have little to no military BRM training at all. A shot gun is their best choice to defend their land because of the scatter and loud suppression effect. If a crazy man or woman uses a shotgun to go on a rampage, at least their capability of killing people is limited to the number of shells and blast of a shotgun. Even with a 6 shooter, 6 shots and they have to reload, giving the "good guy with a gun" argument a better chance at fighting back.

Yes, even if we made a law, if a bad man wants to get a gun that is semi-automatic or fully automatic, they will find a way. BUT to counter this argument,,,,,, its about the numbers, the likelihood of it happening. We cant prevent all mass shootings, but what we can do is make it hard as heck for them to get a gun. We can pass laws that will allow more screenings and paperwork to prevent someone with ill intent from arming themselves. I am tired of seeing and hearing about mass shootings! We have to do something about it!

Another issue I believe can stop the high frequency of shootings is faith and family. We need to increase our community involvement! When we are social, we are less likely to be depressed and angered. We need to do anything we can to mitigate the chances of evil and demons from taking over. We have to be more active in being the light, helping the needy, and most of all - keeping families together and talking. We are so individualistic in this country!

I dont have all the answers, and I dont have the strongest voice. But what i can do is hopefully inspire someone who has a voice to say something and make action happen, We need better regulations, we need more community involvement, we need families to help each other and love one another. One action can have little effect on the Nationwide issue, but if we can work on all the factors can help mitigate the chance of evil from happening, then we should be the light!

  • make automatic weapons either illegal or hard to aquire
  • pull the community together! join more events, inspire more participation, and help the needy
  • improve our education and show our future generations that they can do something about it, we are all in this together
  • This individualistic mindset needs to change, we cant go on life thinking for ourselves and sticking our face in a phone or computer 24/7,,,, that wasted time could have been spent with friends, faith, and family
  • We have so many churches in this land, and from may faiths. Why cant we get together and conduct events within the community? more soup kitchens, more support for those in crisis, more counsel for those who are lost and in a tempest trifle,


    I pray for the Families of those involved, any family that has lost a loved one, from a child to an elder, has so much pain in their hearts. I pray that they can find the strength that God has given them and to find peace.
I grew up in the burbs and the country. I grew up eating rabbit, squirrel, ducks, geese, pheasant (and not under glass), quail, and just about every other thing that man is legally allowed to shoot and eat because that's what Dad brought to the table.

Now, I live in the city. Philly. There are more guns in Philly than there were guns in Sotuh Jersey (where I grew up.) Scarier still, most of them aren't legal, and the ones shooting them couldn't shoot City Hall and hit any part of the building, unless they were aiming at someone across the street. Funny thing about criminals -- they tend not to worry about laws. Only the lawful worry about laws.

So, wrap it up anyway you want to wrap it up, and the truth is, the more and more laws we have against guns in this country end up only one way -- the lawful have less, the lawless have more!

Two kids in my section of the city got killed a couple of weeks ago. They were both shot to death by more kids. Want to know why? Because someone was "right" about a stupid basketball game, and they disagreed on who was right. Does this mean we need more gun laws?

What for? It's already illegal for kids to have guns, and it's been illegal for a very long time to shoot people, and to kill people. The laws are already there and they're enforced. Didn't stop them from doing it anyway.

-- Automatic weapon is overused as an excuse.

--You missed the days when community did really join together, and I doubt it will ever return without legislation no one would ever accept. (One car per household, cellphones only for emergencies, and if you have no emergency situation no cell phones, remove cable TC, cut down on TV time, no stores or sports games on Sundays, and so much more.)

-- We're educated on every little thing except the basics of what "educated" really means.

-- There are but two ways to change a mindset -- Totalitarianism or a real revival/God changing it.

-- The good churches are already doing that. Most churches rather serve a quicky 45 minute service so everyone can get back to their lives.

I'd say it's a nice dream, but considering we're both talking totalitarianism to get there, it's not really a nice dream either.
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
7,865
81
0
#6
It's almost as if America has a gun problem or something
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
4,997
362
83
#7
It's almost as if America has a gun problem or something
We don't have a gun problem. We have a criminal problem.

the only people who should have these guns are the military in my opinion. The people should be ok with shotguns and 6 shooters, we dont need toys that can cause death in the double digits.
And I don't think that anyone should be able to own a vehicle that can go over 70mph. Or that gets less than 30 mpg.

I also don't think we should have legal sales of alcohol or recreational drugs. Think of the thousands upon thousands of lives that would be saved every year, if there was no alcohol available.

Just how silly do you want to go with this "in my opinion" discussion?
 
Feb 5, 2017
1,119
34
0
#9
Let's look at it logically, less guns in circulation = less probability of one being used for such evil acts, or any violent act involving a gun.

Yes, evil people will find a way, that is, if you think they were born evil people, and were never like me or you once upon a time.

People aren't born mental and crazy, thinking one day I'm going to commit mass homicide it's my purpose. Most often they could have lived a normal life, and then they have a breakdown of sorts, or they get into trouble, and don't recover from it. Thinking of causing mass destruction with a gun, is like a juicy temptation in that detached, irrational and devoid emotional state.

It's not just the mass killings. It's things such as suicide by gun. If someone was thinking of suicide in some tormented emotional state, and they either own a gun, or even if they did not, could quite easily steal one, then would they be more likely to get help instead if that wasn't an option?

62% of gun related crimes are suicide. How many lives could be saved?

On average 50 women a month are shot to death by intimate partners in the US. The presence of a gun, that being a gun owner, in a domestic violence incident increases the probability that the woman will be shot and killed 500%. Again if guns weren't present how many lives could be saved?

7 children or teens are killed on average every day in the US. Again how many lives could be saved?

If owning a gun is more important to you than saving lives, and you use the justification that it saves lives despite the facts, then does this mean you regard your guns as more important than all the women and children that die every year because guns exist so easily accessible in what is supposed to be a developed country?

It makes me wonder whether there is a kind of psychosis attached to gun ownership. The way people irrationally justify and justify, like saying, more people die of x than guns. Right, so you are saying that because it's less death than something else, that makes it ok? Basically you are ok with people dying? You are ok with children dying? Women dying at the hands of partners?

Some invalid justification like, people die from people driving dangerously should we take away cars? No of course not, because a vehicle is a function of a modern society, a gun isn't. Plenty of countries live and function with strict gun laws, it's kind of a pathetic irrational thinking. I think it's a kind of psychosis. All the gun owners on this site have a different form a speaking, like they are superior, or above the law, or that they are the law and everything they say is right. And what is crazy is that you won't ever see them back down. It's kind of scary really. It is understandable how in a domestic violence situation, a gun is used as a form of overruling superiority - death.

Does death not mean anything to people who own guns? If the government said we are coming to take your guns, and it WILL save lives, would you say, I don't care, and then suddenly your a law-abiding citizen who never ever breaks the law and uses the 2nd amendment as the law that they hold on to, even if you break other laws (of course you don't)? And you think your guns will stop those who spend TRILLIONS on weapons, from taking your guns? That is a detachment from reality. That is a kind of psychosis.
 
Last edited:
Aug 2, 2009
20,297
544
113
52
#10
i don't mean to knock your post. I can tell you are very sincere.But tell me honestly,do you think the Vegas shooter,the church shooter and other mass shootings,do you think they wouldn't have found another way?
Yes... :rolleyes:

 

Innerfire89

Senior Member
Aug 23, 2017
586
16
0
#11
Let's look at it logically, less guns in circulation = less probability of one being used for such evil acts, or any violent act involving a gun.

Yes, evil people will find a way, that is, if you think they were born evil people, and were never like me or you once upon a time.

People aren't born mental and crazy, thinking one day I'm going to commit mass homicide it's my purpose. Most often they could have lived a normal life, and then they have a breakdown of sorts, or they get into trouble, and don't recover from it. Thinking of causing mass destruction with a gun, is like a juicy temptation in that detached, irrational and devoid emotional state.

It's not just the mass killings. It's things such as suicide by gun. If someone was thinking of suicide in some tormented emotional state, and they either own a gun, or even if they did not, could quite easily steal one, then would they be more likely to get help instead if that wasn't an option?

62% of gun related crimes are suicide. How many lives could be saved?

On average 50 women a month are shot to death by intimate partners in the US. The presence of a gun, that being a gun owner, in a domestic violence incident increases the probability that the woman will be shot and killed 500%. Again if guns weren't present how many lives could be saved?

7 children or teens are killed on average every day in the US. Again how many lives could be saved?

If owning a gun is more important to you than saving lives, and you use the justification that it saves lives despite the facts, then does this mean you regard your guns as more important than all the women and children that die every year because guns exist so easily accessible in what is supposed to be a developed country?

It makes me wonder whether there is a kind of psychosis attached to gun ownership. The way people irrationally justify and justify, like saying, more people die of x than guns. Right, so you are saying that because it's less death than something else, that makes it ok? Basically you are ok with people dying? You are ok with children dying? Women dying at the hands of partners?

Some invalid justification like, people die from people driving dangerously should we take away cars? No of course not, because a vehicle is a function of a modern society, a gun isn't. Plenty of countries live and function with strict gun laws, it's kind of a pathetic irrational thinking. I think it's a kind of psychosis. All the gun owners on this site have a different form a speaking, like they are superior, or above the law, or that they are the law and everything they say is right. And what is crazy is that you won't ever see them back down. It's kind of scary really. It is understandable how in a domestic violence situation, a gun is used as a form of overruling superiority - death.

Does death not mean anything to people who own guns? If the government said we are coming to take your guns, and it WILL save lives, would you say, I don't care, and then suddenly your a law-abiding citizen who never ever breaks the law and uses the 2nd amendment as the law that they hold on to, even if you break other laws (of course you don't)? And you think your guns will stop those who spend TRILLIONS on weapons, from taking your guns? That is a detachment from reality. That is a kind of psychosis.
I don't own one myself, but because of how violent the world is I considered buying one, so my family won't be sluatered by some drug head that wants to break into my home.

You didn't even consider small town farmers that have to deal with the predators that would shut down their farm if not dealt with.

It's ridiculous to even consider that the government would take away peoples guns.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
4,997
362
83
#12
Some invalid justification like, people die from people driving dangerously should we take away cars? No of course not, because a vehicle is a function of a modern society, a gun isn't.
Nobody said we should take away all cars.

Studies have shown that excessive speed is what causes most car accidents, along with alcohol use.
So, certainly you would be in favor of passing a law that says no car can be made that will exceed 40 mph. And there should be sensors that govern that speed down to 25 mph for anyone under the age of 25. Nobody "needs" to drive above 40 mph.

There are still more people killed in automobiles than with firearms. And if you take away the suicides from the firearm death count, gun "violence" is pretty far down the list as pertains to "danger" to the average American.

From the NYTimes.....

When Americans think about deaths from guns, we tend to focus on homicides. But the problem of gun suicide is inescapable: More than 60 percent of people in this country who die from guns die by suicide.
So, if you have only 40% as many people being killed with firearms as you do in automobiles, why are you not campaigning for "true automobile safety" reform?

Just think of how many lives we could save, with just some common-sense regulation!
 

MichaelOwen

Senior Member
Nov 6, 2017
737
41
0
#13
It's almost as if America has a gun problem or something
It's not a gun problem, it's a heart problem. Guns don't kill people on their own, people with guns kill people, and mainly those lost without Christ are the culprits. Remember, Cain slew his brother Abel. Murder has been around as long as the world has been
 

Demi777

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2014
5,496
281
83
#14
blame guns for killing people, spoons for feeding food and scales to make people over weight... yea whatever
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
880
45
28
#15
Heard an interesting teaching that with these lone wolf shooters, a demon has possessed and when it is done it goes to another
and carries on it's work.
Sutherland was by a preacher of atheism, sounds like the protective hand of the Lord was removed from him, this could open him to a horrible spiritual outcome.
With the increasing occurrence of these things isn't the time to disarm, though it may please someones belief that we are past this in development. Humanity requires of us we protect ourselves and our own.
blessings