Science Disproves Evolution

I'm a Christian (although relative to young Earth creationists, I'm almost a deist!), but to play the devil's advocate for hard naturalists and the philosophical concept of nothingness- as I understand it, the idea is that the reason why a 5 ton boulder doesn't spontaneously pop into existence over your head, assuming something can come from nothing for no reason, is because what's over your head isn't nothing.
If something can come from nothing, we shouldn't expect to observe it within the universe, it's something that should only be observable when nothing exists - before the universe exists, and only if God doesn't exist.

But if something can come from nothing from out of nowhere for no reason, there still isn't anything restricting the 5 ton boulder in question from appearing above my head. Where's the restriction here? It's not like a boulder can't occupy the space or something. I see boulders occupying other spaces.

Well I think the idea is that if a boulder can come from nothing, you can expect it to maybe come from 'nothing' once in a while. What's over your head isn't a nothing, it's a something. A place in space and time filled with matter. If it were possible for something to come from nothing, and you existed before the universe in nothingness, THEN maybe a boulder might appear above your head.
But the fact that a boulder isn't appearing above your head doesn't prove that something cannot come from nothing, because you don't have a nothingness above your head.

"there still isn't anything restricting the 5 ton boulder in question from appearing above my head. Where's the restriction here?"
So yes, if something can come from nothing, there ARE things restricting a boulder from appearing above your head - whatever somethings are above your head at any given time. Part of the universe.
If something can come from nothing, you shouldn't expect something to come from nothing where there isn't nothing.

@Pahu , It seems this copy paste is actually relevant.
http://christianchat.com/miscellaneous/27991-science-disproves-evolution-45.html#post1099505

Someone remind me to investigate these (been really busy lately). Obviously leg work is rather burdensome considering i'm getting claims from a source I consider non-credible, but this thread is not about personal consideration, so it would be an interesting exercise for this circular thread.

No the main point is when you say 'evolutionists believe' X it isn't just evolutionists. Thats it, misconstrue whatever you want.

If they believe it, then they're evolutionists. All you're pointing out is that Christian and evolutionist aren't mutually exclusive terms, but as I'm pointing out, they don't always go together.

So its an absolutist strife then.

Exactly. You think that because some christians believe it, that means all of them "should." Hence the strife.

How do you know what other people think?

You need to study up on PHYSICAL MATTER. PLANK PARTICLES.

It's called reading and basic logic.

You presume to know things you don't.
Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Umm the point of a theory is to project. That's how science is done. If we began every experiment from the point of virtually absolute skepticism then we'd get nowhere. Now we continue to test the theory, which is what science is doing, but you can't begin every experiment with, "Well gravity is only a theory so we can't assume that such object obeys Newton's Law of Universal Gravitation."

Yes I am going to accept it as a fact. Just as I accept that my parents are my parents is a fact, just like I accept that there is a place called Fiji, just like I accept that a variant of the influenza virus is what cause my illness a couple of years back. I can't rely on extreme forms of skepticism because they don't get me anywhere, however holding provisional judgments on things which you have evidence for does get me a lot of places.

I want to have an actual conversation with someone Shiloah. It's rather ridiculous to assume I have to tolerate the shotgun approach to debate. If you don't want to discuss this further that's fine, but I'm not going to debate with someone behaving like Pahu.

Evolutionists have no qualms with manipulating nature any more than Newtonists have with making airplanes. Also, as a Christian you should care about being a good steward off the environment because in the vast majority of these cases God didn't decide for this animal to die, we did.

Why do you think that evolutionists deny God. I am an evolutionist and I believe in God. Species need to be preserved as the only reason so many are starting to die out is due to human interference in the ecological balance of the planet. I agree that some species will die out as the environment changes. Humans do untold damage to the planet - from an evolutionary and ecological point of view - we are changing the environment too fast for evolution to keep up. Eventually we could hit a tipping point where the planets ecology will collapse and life cannot be maintained. From a christian point of view - we are the protectors of the planet and should not be actively trying to destroy what God has created.

Nobody ever said that something came from nothing - the universe, as we know it, came from a primordial super dense atom that expanded into what we now recognize as the universe. It all started with that super dense atom.

But not the God who reveals Himself in the Bible, where He said He created everything and everyone out of nothing.

There is no evolution to keep up. It is a myth.

God has revealed that we will destroy all life on earth unless He intervenes, which He will:
Matthew 24:22 "And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened."

Does that mean we should not responsibly protect our environment? No, but we have gone overboard when the EPA considers the welfare of a fish more important than our welfare. And remember:

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us,not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Why do you believe that? Where did that primordial super dense atom come from?

Science Proves God
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When we set out to explain why and how something happens, we must use the evidence, facts and experience available to us if we are to arrive at a logical conclusion. Using available evidence, experience, facts, observation and experimentation, we know that the universe had a beginning and that before that beginning there was no universe and therefore there was nothing. We know this because of the Law of Causality (for every cause there is an effect and for every effect there is a cause). Based on this law, we can use the following logic:

1. The universe exists.
2. The universe had a beginning.
3. Before the beginning of the universe, there was no universe.
4. Since there was no universe, there was nothing.
5. Since the universe does exist, it came from nothing.
6. Something does not come from nothing by any natural cause.
7. Therefore the cause of the universe is supernatural.
8. Life exists.
9. Life always comes from pre-existing life of the same kind (the Law of Biogenesis).
10. Life cannot come from nonliving matter by any natural cause.
11. Since life does exist, the cause of life is supernatural.

Many people with a naturalistic worldview assume everything can be explained by natural causes. From the beginning, they reject the possibility of a supernatural cause. Because of this they are left with no scientifically valid answers to the question of how the universe could come from nothing, which is impossible by any natural cause of which we are aware. Many answers have been proposed that go beyond the realm of known evidence, experience, facts, observation and experimentation and therefore enter the realm of fiction.

The same logic applies to life. Using available evidence, experience, facts, observation and experimentation, we know that life only comes from pre-existing life of the same kind.

“Spontaneous generation (the emergence of life from nonliving matter) has never been observed. All observations have shown that life comes only from life. This has been observed so consistently it is called the Law of Biogenesis. Evolution conflicts with this scientific law by claiming that life came from nonliving matter through natural processes” (From "In the Beginning" by Walt Brown).

Life never comes from non-living matter by any natural cause of which we are aware.

Now that we have seen proof that God exists, using logic based on known evidence, experience, facts, observation and experimentation, we need to see if He has revealed Himself to us. In the Holy Bible there are hundreds of prophecies given by God who is speaking in the first person. In both Bible and secular history we find that those prophecies have been accurately fulfilled. No other writing on earth comes close to doing this! Only God can accurately reveal the future, ergo, He is the author of the Holy Bible. Within the pages of the Holy Bible He reveals His nature, our nature, His relationship to us, our need for salvation and His plan of salvation for us.

The reason the universe and life cannot come from nothing by any natural cause, but can come from a supernatural cause is because God is the self-existent creator of everything and everyone. He is not subject to His creation. He created it and sustains it. It is a mistake to judge God by human standards and human perspectives. God reveals that He is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent.

If you are interested in more detailed proof, read, “Evidence that Demands a Verdict” by Josh McDowell.

[ From “Reincarnation in the Bible?”]