SHOULD America be a Christian nation?

I don't know where you're getting that. I did not read that into FSU's comments at all.

Of course, just because a government doesn't say something is wrong doesn't mean it isn't wrong. Or, to put it better: the right to do something doesn't mean doing it is right. (Case in point: abortion.) I don't know why you would think FSU believes otherwise.

Like anyone who wants to turn this country into a theocracy?

He said removing the consitution would allow for various things to occur, that would be immoral. EDIT: An attempt to clarify.


Yep. Until the Constitution is ammended, theocracy would be unconsitutional.

Wow! Ladies and gentlemen, let this day go down into history.

If Jimmy and I can agree on something, maybe there is a God

(Just kidding, of course. I know and worship our Lord, so no one accuse me of being an atheist or agnostic.)

I wish your other posts in regards to me were atleast this kind. Slander really hurts.

It isn't slander if it's true.

All you do is accuse. I ask for you to show me so I can fix it, but then you just accuse again.

It just keeps going like this.

Grunge:"You're doing X!"
Diggs: "How am I doing X?"
Grunge:"You're doing X!"
Diggs: "How am I doing X?"
Grunge:"You're doing X!"
Diggs: "How am I doing X?"
Grunge:"You're doing X!"
Diggs: "How am I doing X?"
Grunge:"You're doing X!"
Diggs: "How am I doing X?"
ad infinitum


Why do you keep trying to slander me? I wish you wouldn't hate me so much. I'm not asking you to love me. Just hate a little less. Please?

If I leave CC for a week, will that help you? I don't want you to be filled with such hatred for your brothers and sisters. If my being present causes you to stumble, I don't want to be a block. I can leave for awhile if it will help you cool down.

You really love to twist my words, don't you? Show me where I said that. I didn't. You spend your time on here bashing my ideas and frankly it's cute. You're a bitter old man trapped in an 18 year old's body.

As I said, the government is BY the people. We create it. According to the Constitution, we the people have the power to revise this country any way we wish if it falls within bounds of the Constitution, the foundation of our government and nation. If a theocracy were to be put into place, that would violate not only the First Amendment, but would in turn violate the Equal Protection Clause b/c people of different faiths would be persecuted. If we as a people deem something to be wrong, in the eyes of the law, it is wrong. This nation was not built on the Bible, it was built on the ideas that DO come from the 10 Commandments, but also Hammurabi's Code, the Magna Carta, Athenian democracy and various other sources, including Masonic tradition. Regardless of how hard some people try to fight this fact, it is a fact. A theocracy would be un-American, unconstitutional and immoral in the eyes of our legal system.

This is what you said...



What does it mean then? How does getting rid of the constitution allow these things? They would still be wrong, wouldn't they?

Which definition of allow applies?




\It looks a lot like definitions 4 and 5.

In its current state, the Constitution bans these things. If we got rid of the Constitution, they would be allowed again.

I am not savvy enough with this forum to know whether you posted this before you saw my comments in the other thread, where I pointed out exactly what you were doing.

If you posted it before, then I can accept you hadn't seen my other post yet, so had no way of knowing.

If you posted it after, you are just being dishonest. THAT, my friend, is slander. Not exposing the troll for what he is, but claiming you had no idea when you really know exactly what we're talking about.

I don't want to bring other threads into this conversation, but I will simply answer your question AGAIN.

I am accusing you of ignoring what others say, claiming (falsely) that they say something else, and then arguing with the thing they never did say in the first place.

You have done it here, you have done it on at least two other threads I've followed.

I don't hate you for it, but I will point it out every time it happens. And you will continue to deny that I've pointed it out. That's what trolls do.

They would be 'allowed' in that they wouldn't be 'outlawed,' but I don't think the law is the only thing stopping people from doing this stuff. Afterall, we're the ones that made the laws and changed the laws. That would suggest that we, the people, do not approve of these things.

I think you're right in pointing out that the Constitution is a work of OUR creation. We, the people, made it. We, the people, can change our minds. We, the people, can throw it out entirely and start over.

We, the people, are supposed to have the power in this nation. This country is supposed to be what WE make of it. What WE want it to be.

Now we have perfectly reasonable Christians saying things like 'My faith influences my politics but politics should never be religious or reflect religious conviction unless it's okay with the faithless."

What we're making of it is a mockery. We're watering things down for mass appeal, trying to offend the least number of people instead of forming things based on our PRINCIPLES and CONVICTIONS. The mere suggestion that America as a society could behave in a more Christian way has spawned multiple pages of screaming and ranting about being oppressed by a theoretical tyrannical theocracy.

I can't help but wonder... if you think a government following Christ would be oppressive and tyrannical, what do you think of God Himself? Is there no line of reasoning that could ever allow for Christian influence to be a POSITIVE thing? lol

No, there isn't. Because people are imperfect. If Jesus came down and ran His kingdom, it would be very different from a country that is very much against a theocracy or dictatorship. Jesus's dictatorship would be PERFECT and no one would suffer, but in a government run by humans who claim to be working for God, there is always the possibility of them to become corrupt and use their power to cause wars and genocide simply because they don't like that gays are married or that Muslims are worshiping in public.

I thought America was a Christian nation. Look around sometime. Our Declaration of Independence and Constitution were written on Christian principals.

Here's a couple things to think about:

1. America DID start out as a Christian nation. Religious freedom, at the time the country was first forming, didn't mean the same thing it does today, simply because there are so many more religions, cults, and whackos out there now who do crazy things in the name of whatever god/thing they worship. The founding fathers of this country had no way to know that America would one day basically abandon God, or they might not have thought religious freedom was such a good idea. Religious freedom for them, at the time, was more about not being forced into a church they didn't want to be part of, rather than having the legal right to worship Allah/money/themselves/Satan/whatever.

2.Back then, far more people believed in God overall than in present day; if you were not a God fearing, church going man, you were not respectable in the eyes of your peers in those days. It's very nearly the opposite in this century- because for the most part, Christians are made out to be fools, weirdos, or fanatics.

I think, YES, America SHOULD be a Christian nation, but realistically I know that it will never happen. There would be far too much accountability for most people's liking.

It was both. Yes, most of the founding fathers did believe in some deity (though you might want to look up a bit about "Deism," the religion of most of the founding fathers ... they would NOT be considered Christian by any standard). However, religious freedom for them meant the same thing it does for us: not being forced into a church they didn't want to be part of, and having the legal right to worship however they saw fit, or not.

Yes, back then, the vast majority of Americans were not only Christian, but white, anglo-saxon protestants. "Religious plurity" back then meant that maybe there was both a Methodist church and a Lutheran church in town!

And yes, it's quite different today. Not only are there more types of protestants (it seems every year there's a new denomination claiming to have the monopoly on truth), we have Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Wiccans, and all manner of agnostics and atheists. I think that's a good thing!

I have also found that there are some misconceptions about Christians, and that saddens me. On the other hand, I totally understand it. When we have presidential candidates who claim to be Christian, and then spout of things that would make Jesus' head spin, it doesn't surprise me that the average non-religious American gets the wrong idea about what Christians really believe.

It has nothing to do with accountability. The problem is, ***which*** type of Christian should we be? The most populous church affiliation in the US is Methodist. Should we have a Methodist-based government? What would that look like? How would it be different than today?

Or perhaps we should go with the type of Christian that is most populace not here in the US but world-wide: Catholicism. Perhaps we should have a Catholic-run state, with our president taking orders from the Pope? Would that be a good thing?

And every time someone says, "Well, there are things ALL Christians agree on...." I say yes, there are, but precious few. I have yet to see a church where all the members of that one congregation agree on how to make coffee, and you think you can get all American Christians to agree on doctrine? That's a pipe dream if ever there was one.

So my question is: WHAT would a Christian nation look like? What laws would it have that the US doesn't, or what current US laws would it abolish? What would such laws do to the people who live here who are not Christian? Would they need to leave? I will start a new post on this issue.

(Jesus Christ King of Kings and Lord of Lord's pulls up in a hot rod green lincoln)
(Me, Cameran runs to catch up with Jesus and jump in before he speeds off)

<invites everyone to a big tent revival in Private Thread>
<trys to shut Jesus's car-doors but they were already removed>
<starts playing his harmonica as a old time bluegrass gospel song plays on Jesus's hi-fi system>

? What does this have to do with the thread?

Benjamin Franklin was an outspoken atheist, and several of the founding fathers were Masons. They wanted to be free from religious tyranny, which is what America would become under the rule of ANY religion.

Sorry have no idea was Just following Jesus up and down the thread highway.