Should I Give Up?

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2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
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#21
I never really noticed Ezekiel 36 before. Thank you. The more I think about unconditional election, the more nervous I am that my salvation has been taken out of my control… and the more grateful that my salvation has been taken out of my control.
Lori, the Ezekiel passage is so important that it was first mentioned in chapter 11. It's nearly identical, but the chapter 36 passage set has the added verse on the end. Here's chapter 11:

Ezekiel 11:19-20 KJV - "And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: 20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God."

You might find it rather interested that when the doctrine of Spiritual Circumcision is mentioned in the KJV, it reads perfectly clear! I find that to be amazing (for some reason). And yes, these Ezekiel passages are pointing directly to Colossians 2:9-15:

Colossians 2:9-15 NLT - "For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body. 10 So you also are complete through your union with Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority. 11 When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. 12 For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead. 13 You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins. 14 He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross. 15 In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross."

Lori, these passages are absolutely what the Bible is focused upon. Circumcision of the Heart, or the Ezekiel passages, are/is the Purpose of Christ, and they describe the Work of Christ, and they tell us of the Effect of Christ. The Purpose of Christ is to Circumcise our hearts of the Sinful Nature so that our Spiritual Blindness would be cured and we would therefore be caused, or Spiritual Empowered, to obey.

How we we obey until our hearts have been cured of Spiritual Blindness. The Purpose of Christ? Jesus said it Himself:

John 9:39 NLT - "Then Jesus told him, "I entered this world to render judgment--to give sight to the blind and to show those who think they see that they are blind."

Incredibly, Jesus said this just after healing a man of his physical blindness. So what does that tell you? It tells us that physical healings are a physical reflection of what He had done to that person's heart. After all, Jesus doesn't cast His Peals upon pigs, now does He? What is the Pearl? The Pearl, or the Holy Treasure, is the Gift of Spiritual Circumcision, for this Grace is all sufficient! And that's exactly what Paul meant when he wrote the following:

2 Corinthians 12:9 NIV - "But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me."

Again, what is that Grace? It is Spiritual Circumcision . . . the Circumcision of Christ. Is there anything greater than being relieved of the Curse of the Sinful Nature? No! There isn't, for when the heart is Purified of this Mind of the Devil, so to speak, we are free from doing the will of the Devil:

2 Timothy 2:26 NKJV - " . . . and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will."

And that brings us right back to free will. The above passage tells us that all who have not received the Spiritual Circumcision of Christ, they are in the "snare" of the Devil and are taken "captive" to do his will."

The only way to be freed from the obligation of fulfilling the will of the Devil, is by turning to Christ:

2 Corinthians 3:13-16 NLT - "We are not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so the people of Israel would not see the glory, even though it was destined to fade away. 14 But the people's minds were hardened, and to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, the same veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth. And this veil can be removed only by believing in Christ. 15 Yes, even today when they read Moses' writings, their hearts are covered with that veil, and they do not understand. 16 But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away."

Are you beginning to see how this all works? Are you beginning to see how God talks about the same things, but by using different words and ideas? The "Veil" as mentioned above, is the Sinful Nature. When Moses lowered the Veil, this is what it is like to be freed from Spiritual Blindness, for when the Veil was lowered, Israel could understand and obey. But with with the Veil raised so as to hide the Glory of God, Israel could not understand nor could they obey. And the hardened heart? This is what it means to be held captive by Satan to do his will. And how is the Veil, or the Sinful Nature removed? We must turn to Christ . . . and for what? The Circumcision of Heart, the most incredible Operation one could ever hope for in this life.

Colossians 2:11-12 KJV - "In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."

Lori . . . this is what the ENTIRE Bible revolves around. And you are now both seeing and understanding the structure of the Bible. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if you're becoming angry that no teacher has ever shown you these things. I certainly was . . . and still am! Pastors have their faces in the Word of God more than anyone alive . . . yet they do not talk about these things. And, if you approach your pastors and teachers regarding these passages, it won't turn out well. Why? Because you will be learning the utter Truth of our Faith, and they don't want you to know of it. They will become angry at you. They may laugh at you. You may be ostracised, and when you leave your church, no one will come after you. At least, this is what happened to me . . . and it is stated in the Bible that this is what will happened to anyone who seeks the Truth. They will be hated.

I believe in you, Lori. Finally, be a Berean and check all of these things. Do not believe me just because I have spent the past ten minutes writing these things, but study them for yourself. These are the most important Scriptures in all of the Bible!

Deuteronomy 30:6 KJV - "And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live."

Romans 2:27-29 NLT - "In fact, uncircumcised Gentiles who keep God's law will condemn you Jews who are circumcised and possess God's law but don't obey it. 28 For you are not a true Jew just because you were born of Jewish parents or because you have gone through the ceremony of circumcision. 29 No, a true Jew is one whose heart is right with God. And true circumcision is not merely obeying the letter of the law; rather, it is a change of heart produced by God's Spirit. And a person with a changed heart seeks praise from God, not from people."

A change of heart is for all, not just the Jews!

Ephesians 4:5 NLT - "There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism . . ."
 

Rhomphaeam

Active member
Dec 14, 2021
832
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England
www.nblc.church
#22
I never really noticed Ezekiel 36 before. Thank you. The more I think about unconditional election, the more nervous I am that my salvation has been taken out of my control… and the more grateful that my salvation has been taken out of my control.
The difficulty does not lie with the doctrine of unconditional election as expressed in your paradoxical meaning - it may simply lie in a failure to properly understand salvation itself.

Salvation - The Living Meaning

Its quite a long thread and by no means perfect - but it may help to pursue it to the end.
 
Mar 16, 2022
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#23
In Calvinist theology, unconditional election is considered to be one aspect of predestination in which God chooses certain individuals to be saved. Those elected receive mercy, while those not elected, the reprobates, receive justice without condition. This unconditional election is essentially related to the rest of the TULIP doctrinal outline and hinges upon the supreme belief in the absolute sovereignty of God over the affairs of man. God unconditionally elects certain people even though they are sinful as an act of his saving grace apart from the shortcomings or will of man. Those chosen have done nothing to deserve this grace.

Eph 1:4-
4: according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love. 5. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ himself, according to the good pleasures of his will. 6. To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. 7. In whom we have redemption in his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace.

Definitions:
Us is the first person plural pronoun. Us is used as the object of a verb or a preposition. A speaker or writer uses us to refer both to himself or herself and to one or more other people.

We used by a speaker to refer to himself or herself and one or more other people considered together.

John 3:16 seems to suggest that Jesus died for ALL (ALL means ALL): “For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.” Nothing within this proposition seems to suggest that God's Son perished for only the 'elect.

ALL: used to refer to the whole quantity or extent of a particular group or thing.

Whoever: the person or people who; any person who.

I think we have to look at the Old and New Testament covenants, the old testament covenant was based on Levitical rules and laws to be followed in the sense of animal sacrifice to cover the sins of the people. I think the key here is rules and laws, the Sanhedrin and the Pharisees were driven by the law, and were corrupted by the law. Our creator, Father/Son/Holy Ghost, saw that we, yes we, ALL of us, could not follow His old testament steps for salvation. As we are ALL fallen since the book of Genesis. Introducing the New Covenant: Made by the last sacrifice ever needed by Jesus the Christ for ALL who will believe and receive Him. Matthew 27:51 "Behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent." This gives ALL of us full access to our God. WE have to choose to make that decision. Noah, built the ark for how long? All the while people mocked him, they ALL had a choice to make, believe or not believe, their choice to not accept the salvation of God and end up the the drink.

I simply believer WE ALL have a choice to make, follow God our creator, Jesus the Christ His son our savior or not and end up in a much warmer place. Nineveh had a choice to make when Jonah visited them, they chose God and not their sinful ways, Sodom and Gomorrah chose the opposite...they got warm really fast.

Not trying to ruffle feathers, but I don't believe God created ALL of US to intentionally send some of US to Hell. After all Lucifer, the most beautiful angel, he made a choice along with 1/3 of the angels. He chose to rebel, and paid the price.
We are given the great commission to take Jesus to the ends of the world, proclaiming His name that ALL will be saved. If a person chooses not accept, I think it's on them and reprobate mind that they refuse God, God does not refuse any who humbly come to Him for salvation.

Abba, Father, I pray that WE ALL will receive your words in our hearts, your convictions in our lives to continue the great commission you put before us. You accept ALL who believe and receive you, I thank you and praise you for your grace that you offer to ALL who accept you. We don't deserve your grace, but you freely give it, may WE ALL believe and receive your grace through your Sons sacrifice on the cross for ALL of us. Jesus' name I pray, Amen.