the Dunning-Kruger effect

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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
18,994
1,460
113
#1

In psychology, there’s an idea known as
the Dunning-Kruger effect. It refers to research by David Dunning and Justin Kruger that found the least competent people often believe they are the most competent because they “lack the very expertise needed to recognize how badly they’re doing.”




i was reading an article about the behavior of a very well known American, and came across this.

discuss?
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
7,411
541
113
#2
These doesn't seem in any way surprising or controversial.

This just seems like common sense.




FYI ... I know this because I'm a highly competent expert.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
23,391
1,355
113
#3
In psychology, there’s an idea known as the Dunning-Kruger effect. It refers to research by David Dunning and Justin Kruger that found the least competent people often believe they are the most competent because they “lack the very expertise needed to recognize how badly they’re doing.”

i was reading an article about the behavior of a very well known American, and came across this.

discuss?
I lack the competence to discuss this :rolleyes:
 
Z

Zi

Guest
#5
You'd start by comparison. Her methods and the methods of those from the case studies
How do we know you are competent to discuss your own competence?
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
7,411
541
113
#6
But seriously, although this really is kind of a funny topic,
I don't think it requires any scientific study.

I think you could arrive at this same conclusion from some scripture,
or from some simple philosophical proofs.
I can't see this would require any serious study to prove it.
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
406
0
#7
It closely ties to The Peter Principle, coined by Laurence J. Peter. It states that most upper echelon incompetence comes from people being promoted until they reach the eventual upper level, or limit, of their competency.
 
Z

Zi

Guest
#8
You have no room for wonder, imagination and the like do you?

I don't mean that in an offensive way.

You seem very fact oriented. Facts as in what's been proven in your opinion.

I don't see wiggle room for open discussion or debating. Even if you post in them, I don't see an open end.

I'm aware I could be wrong. I've not read everything you post. I'm really just asking
But seriously, although this really is kind of a funny topic,
I don't think it requires any scientific study.

I think you could arrive at this same conclusion from some scripture,
or from some simple philosophical proofs.
I can't see this would require any serious study to prove it.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
23,391
1,355
113
#9
You have no room for wonder, imagination and the like do you?
I don't mean that in an offensive way.
You seem very fact oriented. Facts as in what's been proven in your opinion.
I don't see wiggle room for open discussion or debating.
Even if you post in them, I don't see an open end.
I'm aware I could be wrong. I've not read everything you post. I'm really just asking
I think Max shows a great deal of imagination, along with fairly keen powers of observation, and a very good grasp of the English language, which he uses to present his well articulated astute considerations. The factualness of it all is almost necessary in a milieu such as this, leaving no stone unturned, as it were, to assure that each relection is clearly represented, while at the same time determining that his propitious presentations do not turn into ad hominin free-for-alls, as many others allow themselves to do rather alarmingly too regularly :)
 
Dec 14, 2017
408
2
0
#10
These doesn't seem in any way surprising or controversial.

This just seems like common sense.




FYI ... I know this because I'm a highly competent expert.

I have studied a lot of math in my life ... so I know that ex (or simply X) is usually an algebraic unknown. And a spurt is a drip under pressure. Therefore, by logical conclusion, an expert is an unknown drip under pressure!
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
18,994
1,460
113
#11
I have studied a lot of math in my life ... so I know that ex (or simply X) is usually an algebraic unknown. And a spurt is a drip under pressure. Therefore, by logical conclusion, an expert is an unknown drip under pressure!
wouldn't a pert ex be a sass from the past?


does a transitive property hold here?
 
Z

Zi

Guest
#12
I enjoy reading his posts. I've spoken to him before so I'd hope he wouldn't take it negatively
I'm not knocking him.
Can't understand personality if questions aren't asked.


I think Max shows a great deal of imagination, along with fairly keen powers of observation, and a very good grasp of the English language, which he uses to present his well articulated astute considerations. The factualness of it all is almost necessary in a milieu such as this, leaving no stone unturned, as it were, to assure that each relection is clearly represented, while at the same time determining that his propitious presentations do not turn into ad hominin free-for-alls, as many others allow themselves to do rather alarmingly too regularly :)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
18,994
1,460
113
#13
You have no room for wonder, imagination and the like do you?

I don't mean that in an offensive way.

You seem very fact oriented. Facts as in what's been proven in your opinion.

I don't see wiggle room for open discussion or debating. Even if you post in them, I don't see an open end.

I'm aware I could be wrong. I've not read everything you post. I'm really just asking
When one only has one eye, one's depth perception is necessarily impaired.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
5,043
441
83
#14
When one only has one eye, one's depth perception is necessarily impaired.
which is just fine for a lot of us "shallow people"..... no depth perception is required!
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
7,411
541
113
#15
You have no room for wonder, imagination and the like do you?

I don't mean that in an offensive way.

You seem very fact oriented. Facts as in what's been proven in your opinion.

I don't see wiggle room for open discussion or debating. Even if you post in them, I don't see an open end.

I'm aware I could be wrong. I've not read everything you post. I'm really just asking

Hey Zi,
Hope you had a great Christmas and you're doing well.

Your questions seemed to be reasonable and polite,
so I'll try to discuss them as politely as you brought them up.

"You have no room for wonder, imagination, and the like do you?"
: )

Well, at least you get to the point, lol.
Let me give you my point of view, so that maybe you'll understand why I seem so unimaginative... maybe you can cure me.

I think imagination is a wonderful thing.
And I think there are many many things in life to wonder about.
Truly.
But sometimes we "wonder" about things that are not infinite in scope and unanswerable;
often we wonder about things which really do have answers.
When things DO have answers, I'd much rather HAVE AN ANSWER than just keep on wondering.

Some things DO have answers, and if something DOES have an answer, I'd prefer to have that answer than continue wondering.

It often goes like this:
A. I usually look at a thing and thinK, "Hmmm, is this the sort of thing that might HAVE an answer?"
B. Then I think, "If its a thing that might have an answer, is it the sort of answer we mortals could discover?"
C. Then I think, "If it's the sort of thing we CAN discover the answer to, WHERE would that answer be, and HOW would be go about finding it?"

So maybe it's not that I have no "wonder"... but maybe we're wondering about different things.
Perhaps some people wonder about wonder, and I'm wondering about an answer.
Or perhaps some people are wondering about a "possible" answer, and I'm wondering about a "necessary" answer, an answer that stands in a relationship of genuine logical necessity, and therefore can be self-validating.


Now, does that mean all my answers are right?
Of course not.
I'm one of the wrongest people I know... see there, I can't even use good grammar.
:)

So, to sum up my view to this question about imagination and wonder, let me put it another way.
There are a great many things to wonder about it life, but there are many things we don't have to wonder about... many things have genuine answers, and I think it's better to have answers to answerable things.



Now, if you want to know WHY I gave the answers I gave previously in this thread, that would be an entirely different question.
 
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D

Depleted

Guest
#16

In psychology, there’s an idea known as
the Dunning-Kruger effect. It refers to research by David Dunning and Justin Kruger that found the least competent people often believe they are the most competent because they “lack the very expertise needed to recognize how badly they’re doing.”




i was reading an article about the behavior of a very well known American, and came across this.

discuss?
I'm the third child, and first daughter, and then three others came along later. My mother was the type of woman so competitive, she'd make alpha athletes feel mellow. And Dad has OCD, so there was no concept of every hitting his bar for perfection. (And his bar is perfection. Third child is daughter means two older brothers with one to two more years experience on how to be better at whatever plus, shore enough both were alpha males in their selected field.

And if family didn't do it, work did it.My jobs went from social work/counseling to telemarketing, to sales, on to managing the work the guys had to get done for 900+ apartments, and then onto copy writing in an ad agency, and finally a bookkeeper for a factor. What did all that equal, a clear understand that I could not do the works, but I sure could learn how. I can learn how do to any job that required skills to do it. Just tenacity.

I'm no expert but I can do the work

I know what I cant deal with.
 
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Z

Zi

Guest
#18
Thank you! This is exactly what I meant
Hey Zi,
Hope you had a great Christmas and you're doing well.

Your questions seemed to be reasonable and polite,
so I'll try to discuss them as politely as you brought them up.

"You have no room for wonder, imagination, and the like do you?"
: )

Well, at least you get to the point, lol.
Let me give you my point of view, so that maybe you'll understand why I seem so unimaginative... maybe you can cure me.

I think imagination is a wonderful thing.
And I think there are many many things in life to wonder about.
Truly.
But sometimes we "wonder" about things that are not infinite in scope and unanswerable;
often we wonder about things which really do have answers.
When things DO have answers, I'd much rather HAVE AN ANSWER than just keep on wondering.

Some things DO have answers, and if something DOES have an answer, I'd prefer to have that answer than continue wondering.

It often goes like this:
A. I usually look at a thing and thinK, "Hmmm, is this the sort of thing that might HAVE an answer?"
B. Then I think, "If its a thing that might have an answer, is it the sort of answer we mortals could discover?"
C. Then I think, "If it's the sort of thing we CAN discover the answer to, WHERE would that answer be, and HOW would be go about finding it?"

So maybe it's not that I have no "wonder"... but maybe we're wondering about different things.
Perhaps some people wonder about wonder, and I'm wondering about an answer.
Or perhaps some people are wondering about a "possible" answer, and I'm wondering about a "necessary" answer, an answer that stands in a relationship of genuine logical necessity, and therefore can be self-validating.


Now, does that mean all my answers are right?
Of course not.
I'm one of the wrongest people I know... see there, I can't even use good grammar.
:)

So, to sum up my view to this question about imagination and wonder, let me put it another way.
There are a great many things to wonder about it life, but there are many things we don't have to wonder about... many things have genuine answers, and I think it's better to have answers to answerable things.



Now, if you want to know WHY I gave the answers I gave previously in this thread, that would be an entirely different question.
 

Lynx

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2014
13,049
724
113
#19
I don't know about most of the stuff y'all posted in this thread. I can answer the OP though. I have observed the less a person knows, the more he thinks he knows. Only the completely ignorant think they know everything. The more a person learns the more he realizes how little he knows and how impossible it is to learn even an appreciable fraction of what there is to know.

Maybe that explains Proverbs 1:18, about if you increase knowledge you increase sorrow.
 
S

Seedz

Guest
#20
Ignorant in what sense? Intelligence is a multifaceted virtue. I don't think this applies over everything because one person can be ignorant in regards to a particular subject or idea, and excel at something else. I think this has to do more with attitude rather than actual intelligence. Just my $0.02