Tolkien Nerd Thread

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Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
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#21
That's the cool part about LOTR. The triumph of good is emphasized by the ability and cunning of evil.

Except for the Ringwraiths at the start of FOTR. That was a royal screw-up on their part.

There are really quite a few points where if something would have gone just a little differently for the good guys something would have snapped and Sauron would have taken over the world. I am trying to figure out how Tolkien does that without making it either wildly improbable and/or hopelessly dark. It dances dangerously close to both of these, but never over the edge, I think.
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
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#22
Also, I just realized I heard of LOTR before you were born Tinuviel. hahahaha
 

Laish

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2016
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#23
Also, I just realized I heard of LOTR before you were born Tinuviel. hahahaha
Lol
I read the books when I was 20 . Yea 31 years back.
Blessings
Bill
 

Tinuviel

Senior Member
Jun 6, 2015
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#24
Also, I just realized I heard of LOTR before you were born Tinuviel. hahahaha
I shake my fist at you! lol. My sister does the same thing to me. It isn't MY fault I was born so late :p (Bill has one up on you ;))
 

Tinuviel

Senior Member
Jun 6, 2015
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#25
Here's a few of my answers :)

How were you introduced to J. R. R. Tolkien, who introduced you, and when did it happen?

My sister read the books to my siblings and I. Or, my siblings, anyway. I was just a babe in arms and I'm told they weren't exactly reading to ME, but I did laugh at something. My first real laugh, they say. I heard them again read by said sister at 4, and by my mum at 8. I read them for myself at 9 or 10. (What can I say? We like Tolkien :p).

Who is your favorite character in the books?

Just all around good guy-wise, Faramir. Complexity-wise, Saruman

Do you play LotR/Tolkien inspired games or take quizzes based on his works?
Games not so much. Quizzes, for sure! More than I'd like to admit :eek:

What is your favorite inner story/subplot?
The story of Beren and Luthien Tinuviel. Wait...that doesn't surprise people?? I also like the unrest of the Elves in Valanor, the bad blood between Finwe's sons, and the kinslaying. (If you can call it "like" for a story like that; it is amazingly powerful). And in LotR one of my favorite things is how the Ring works on the people around it--notably Boromir and Saruman.

Is there a part in the books that really, really irritates you? In the movies?

Not irritates exactly, but the poor man should have stayed away from horses and ponies and the like. He forgets them :p

Leaving Peter Jackson and similar visual interpretations out of this, in your estimation, do Balrogs have wings?

Personally, I cannot imagine the things with wings! I've read a very informative essay on the subject basically proving...nothing. no one knows what Tolkien thought. Though this guy was able to prove that at one point they were NOT winged. But Tolkien was prone to changing his mind so who knows? He was remarkably obscure on the subject.
 

Lynx

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2014
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#26
Tolkien was good. I don't have any objection to Tolkien. I DO object to everybody and his mother's, best friend's, cousin twice removed using the material over and over and over and over and over... Every fantasy RPG I play, it's the same thing - gnomes are short, fat little people who use magic, dwarves are strong, coarse, short people who work in the mines and lean more toward machines than magic, elves are magic users that are taller, more graceful and with pointier ears than gnomes - and of course, dragons are THE power card.

Everybody keeps copying his worlds. Either Tolkien was just too good or so many other people have so little imagination.
 

Tinuviel

Senior Member
Jun 6, 2015
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#27
Tolkien was good. I don't have any objection to Tolkien. I DO object to everybody and his mother's, best friend's, cousin twice removed using the material over and over and over and over and over... Every fantasy RPG I play, it's the same thing - gnomes are short, fat little people who use magic, dwarves are strong, coarse, short people who work in the mines and lean more toward machines than magic, elves are magic users that are taller, more graceful and with pointier ears than gnomes - and of course, dragons are THE power card.

Everybody keeps copying his worlds. Either Tolkien was just too good or so many other people have so little imagination.
Both. Tolkien single-handedly changed the genre of fantasy. He brought academics into his writing of fiction. Subjects like philology, history, geography, language and religion. Such a well-developed working world had not been seen before in fantasy. It was totally new and fresh, and it made the stories epic. Ever since people have been trying to achieve that.

That being said, it DOES seem like every one be like: "OOOH, I'll have a Dim Master who somehow lost a bracelet, so his henchmen (the dark trotters) must go find it and bring it back to him, under his all-hearing fiery Ear!!" The details don't matter. A few half-heights and elves and dwarves fighting goblins and the like. Maybe an evil, fiery, unbeatable Rogbol or two. Oh, and some of the good guys should have bracelets too. And then we will all have an epic battle. But of course the Dim Master is stronger than they are so they have to send a half-height into the middle of his realm to destroy the bracelet.
 
Aug 4, 2015
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#28
Hullo, there! I don't normally post in forums, so... first time for everythin'! Here's my first contribution!

[video=youtube;WwszMN-HLQU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwszMN-HLQU[/video]
 

Tinuviel

Senior Member
Jun 6, 2015
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#29
Hullo, there! I don't normally post in forums, so... first time for everythin'! Here's my first contribution!

[video=youtube;WwszMN-HLQU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwszMN-HLQU[/video]
Wait! Did you feel that? the nerd factor in this thread just spiked. lol (We'll make you into a forum poster yet ;)).
 
Aug 4, 2015
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#30
Wait! Did you feel that? the nerd factor in this thread just spiked. lol (We'll make you into a forum poster yet ;)).
I can't decide whether I should feel insulted or complimented. I suppose, as with everything you say about me, the answer is yes.

I forgot to explain what the video I linked was. The title is rather vague, "Themes in Lord of the Rings." It's specifically about theological themes, for those who haven't started watching it.

I also have yet to answer Tinny's questionnaire.
 

Lynx

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2014
12,623
311
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#31
Both. Tolkien single-handedly changed the genre of fantasy. He brought academics into his writing of fiction. Subjects like philology, history, geography, language and religion. Such a well-developed working world had not been seen before in fantasy. It was totally new and fresh, and it made the stories epic. Ever since people have been trying to achieve that.

That being said, it DOES seem like every one be like: "OOOH, I'll have a Dim Master who somehow lost a bracelet, so his henchmen (the dark trotters) must go find it and bring it back to him, under his all-hearing fiery Ear!!" The details don't matter. A few half-heights and elves and dwarves fighting goblins and the like. Maybe an evil, fiery, unbeatable Rogbol or two. Oh, and some of the good guys should have bracelets too. And then we will all have an epic battle. But of course the Dim Master is stronger than they are so they have to send a half-height into the middle of his realm to destroy the bracelet.


Lewis Carrol and Tolkien are the exceptions of course, because they actually put some THOUGHT into what they were creating. Most people just throw things together and slap new names on them. To have at least a passable story, you should keep it to five or less made-up-words. Anathem, I'm looking at you.

And that was a good demonstration Tinuviel. You might have something there. Develop that into a rough draft plot and see if a publisher will bite. :cool:
 

Tinuviel

Senior Member
Jun 6, 2015
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#32
I can't decide whether I should feel insulted or complimented. I suppose, as with everything you say about me, the answer is yes.

I forgot to explain what the video I linked was. The title is rather vague, "Themes in Lord of the Rings." It's specifically about theological themes, for those who haven't started watching it.

I also have yet to answer Tinny's questionnaire.
It was a compliment, and therefore not true :rolleyes:.
 

Tinuviel

Senior Member
Jun 6, 2015
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#33


Lewis Carrol and Tolkien are the exceptions of course, because they actually put some THOUGHT into what they were creating. Most people just throw things together and slap new names on them. To have at least a passable story, you should keep it to five or less made-up-words. Anathem, I'm looking at you.

And that was a good demonstration Tinuviel. You might have something there. Develop that into a rough draft plot and see if a publisher will bite. :cool:
It's true. Funny. There is almost no correlation between Carroll's words and Tolkien's. (besides, of course, the thought).
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
7,506
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#34
Ryan Reeves is the mmmmman.

Hullo, there! I don't normally post in forums, so... first time for everythin'! Here's my first contribution!

[video=youtube;WwszMN-HLQU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwszMN-HLQU[/video]
 

Tinuviel

Senior Member
Jun 6, 2015
4,737
237
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#35
Hullo, there! I don't normally post in forums, so... first time for everythin'! Here's my first contribution!

[video=youtube;WwszMN-HLQU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwszMN-HLQU[/video]
Haven't listened to all of this yet, but that's some interesting stuff.
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
7,506
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#36
His lectures on almost every subject are fantastic.

I started with his Church history series. Then moved on to Luther and Calvin. Then Lewis and Tolkien.

This is some Masters level discussion for free.

Haven't listened to all of this yet, but that's some interesting stuff.
 

EarnestQ

Senior Member
Apr 28, 2016
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#37
I have read the books perhaps two dozen times since 1974. There are two problems I always have when I read the books. The first is why did the party start out from Rivendale on foot? They could have used horses and gotten to their goal months ahead of time.

The second is that when Sam puts on the ring while in the caves of Cirus Ungul (??) the text does not say he took off the ring. But later on the text says he puts the ring back on. This has always bothered me.
 

Tinuviel

Senior Member
Jun 6, 2015
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#38
I have read the books perhaps two dozen times since 1974. There are two problems I always have when I read the books. The first is why did the party start out from Rivendale on foot? They could have used horses and gotten to their goal months ahead of time.
It was winter. Horses eat :). (This is my biggest problem with OTHER fantasy books, actually. They take off with horses without a way to care for them). Also, they were trying to be secret. Besides, Tolkien knew nothing about horses, and when he did put them in, he forgot about them. He gets rid of them as soon as possible, as a rule :p.

There are several mistakes in LotR. There are also charming little nuances that make it exciting. (My favorite example, when Aragorn is complaining to Gandalf about his age in "The White Rider" (The Two Towers), it is actually Aragorn's birthday :p).
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
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#39
I can't say I've ever analyzed LOTR for discontinuity errors.

It's like questioning the existence of God because the world isn't how you would have it designed.
 

Tinuviel

Senior Member
Jun 6, 2015
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#40
I can't say I've ever analyzed LOTR for discontinuity errors.

It's like questioning the existence of God because the world isn't how you would have it designed.
Neither have I. "He who breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom." Mistakes in books have a nasty way of jumping out at me when I'm not looking for them.