Where will he take us?

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HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#141
May 21, 2022
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#141
Susanna said:
In the military we have to follow orders to protect our country. Would you like for us not to do that?
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A lot of evil has been done under the guise of "protecting" our country.

Weapons of mass destruction comes to mind.
 
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Gojira

Guest
#142
#142
HeIsHere said:
A lot of evil has been done under the guise of "protecting" our country.

Weapons of mass destruction comes to mind.
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I have no problem with WMDs. That, to me at least, is not what this is all referring to. War crimes would be an example of where following orders too far would apply. Raping a woman of a town you're occupying would be an example. Covering something up you knew was unjust would be another example.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#143
May 21, 2022
5,812
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#143
Gojira said:
Don't tell me the answer. You're ultimately only answerable to God. But, if you're not in right standing with Him, answering to Him will not go well for you. You need to decide who is God: Your commander-in-chief, or the One Who is actually God.
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Soldiers are trained to do as they are told and to not question.
Just makes me wonder if any Christian can be a soldier.

Hacksaw Ridge made me think on this, I really question the whole concept of a "just war."

I am not sure it exists.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#144
May 21, 2022
5,812
2,263
113
#144
Gojira said:
I have no problem with WMDs. That, to me at least, is not what this is all referring to. War crimes would be an example of where following orders too far would apply. Raping a woman of a town you're occupying would be an example. Covering something up you knew was unjust would be another example.
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Are you saying lying to invade a country is okay like George W/Cheney did?

Whether it is a small act of criminality or large they are both wrong.
 
G

Gojira

Guest
#145
#145
HeIsHere said:
Soldiers are trained to do as they are told and to not question.
Just makes me wonder if any Christian can be a soldier.

Hacksaw Ridge made me think on this, I really question the whole concept of a "just war."

I am not sure it exists.
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It absolutely does. If China, e.g., invaded your country, fighting back would not be just?

God told Israel to START wars with its neighbors because He'd had enough with those pagan populations. But, they had to slaughter tons of people -- including children. Not pretty, not desirable, but like radical surgery, sometimes war is necessary.

"War is not 'the best way of settling differences, it is the only way of preventing their being settled for you." (G.K. Chesterton)
 
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Gojira

Guest
#146
#146
HeIsHere said:
Are you saying lying to invade a country is okay like George W/Cheney did?

Whether it is a small act of criminality or large they are both wrong.
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Sometimes, yes.

Consider, for a perspective to challenge your current notions on war, a book entitled "When God Says War Is Right", by Darrell Cole.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#147
May 21, 2022
5,812
2,263
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#147
Gojira said:
It absolutely does. If China, e.g., invaded your country, fighting back would not be just?

God told Israel to START wars with its neighbors because He'd had enough with those pagan populations. But, they had to slaughter tons of people -- including children. Not pretty, not desirable, but like radical surgery, sometimes war is necessary.

"War is not 'the best way of settling differences, it is the only way of preventing their being settled for you." (G.K. Chesterton)
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I brought up the lie of weapons of mass destruction and you have gone off in a different direction.

There is not ancient Israel that God is commanding presently.

Aside from where God gave direction directly to fulfill His plans wars are mostly about power, money, land and control .... and wars do not happen in a vacuum and while I respect Chesterton a lot, he was a brilliant man, he was not right about everything.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#148
May 21, 2022
5,812
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#148
Gojira said:
Sometimes, yes.
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Well, USA is about to reap what it has sown, they have long abdicated diplomacy and leadership on the world stage built on negotiating in good faith.

Truly tragic you can defend a government lying to its people, killing women and children, for the sake of preserving oil.
 
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Gojira

Guest
#149
#149
HeIsHere said:
I brought up the lie of weapons of mass destruction and you have gone off in a different direction.

There is not ancient Israel that God is commanding presently.

Aside from where God gave direction directly to fulfill His plans wars are mostly about power, money, land and control .... and wars do not happen in a vacuum and while I respect Chesterton a lot, he was a brilliant man, he was not right about everything.
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You never answered my question about a hypothetical Chinese invasion.

But, if you believe that fighting is never just, good luck with that in a fallen world. The guy who invades your home to rape and steal I'm sure would be impressed by your radical pacifism and move on.
 
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Gojira

Guest
#150
#150
HeIsHere said:
Well, USA is about to reap what it has sown, they have long abdicated diplomacy and leadership on the world stage built on negotiating in good faith.

Truly tragic you can defend a government lying to its people, killing women and children, for the sake of preserving oil.
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Thats's your opinion. After 9/11, we thought we saw a potentially catastrophic threat from a man who hated the US. Pre-emption seemed to be the only logical recourse. If it's only about oil to you, well I'd say that you have an incorrect perspective.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#151
May 21, 2022
5,812
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#151
Gojira said:
Sometimes, yes.

Consider, for a perspective to challenge your current notions on war, a book entitled "When God Says War Is Right", by Darrell Cole.
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I do not have to read anything, ancient Israel no longer exists and people have the ability to sit at the table and talk.

War is the ultimate failure of diplomacy.
Tony Benn
 
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Gojira

Guest
#152
#152
HeIsHere said:
I do not have to read anything, ancient Israel no longer exists and people have the ability to sit at the table and talk.

War is the ultimate failure of diplomacy.
Tony Benn
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True. Chamberlain negotiated with Hitler in good faith and that turned out great.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#153
May 21, 2022
5,812
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#153
Gojira said:
You never answered by question about a hypothetical Chinese invasion.

But, if you believe that fighting is never just, good luck with that in a fallen world. The guy who invades your home to rape and steal I'm sure would be impressed by your radical pacifism and move on.
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China is not interested in invading the USA by land.

I am not a radical pacifist, I am willing to state that most wars of the 20th century could have been avoided.
 
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Gojira

Guest
#155
#155
HeIsHere said:
China is not interested in invading the USA by land.
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You evaded my question.


HeIsHere said:
Nobody was negotiating in good faith.
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Chamberlain went home declaring peace. Hitler was not negotiating in good faith, and that's the point. Sin makes it very likely that someone is going to want to play God over you. Negotiating with such people often fails, and the only just recourse is self-defense.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#156
May 21, 2022
5,812
2,263
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#156
Gojira said:
Thats's your opinion. After 9/11, we thought we saw a potentially catastrophic threat from a man who hated the US. Pre-emption seemed to be the only logical recourse. If it's only about oil to you, well I'd say that you have an incorrect perspective.
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Sure, Cheney, Bush and Powell were a honorable man. I think the facts have been revealed on this, but you can deny if you like and so the war machine continues on.
 
G

Gojira

Guest
#157
#157
HeIsHere said:
Yes Cheney, Bush and Powell were an honorable man. I think the facts have been revealed on this, but you can deny if you like and so the war machine continues on.
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Actually, you can only hold your perspective if you have a naive trust in human nature.

Tell me, was Iraq unjust to defend itself against the US?
 
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