Why did God favor Israel, and why does He still if it is a Jewish state that denies

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J

Jda016

Guest
#41
#41
Historicist said:
Since when were "the Jews" all of Israel? Read Hebrews, James and 1 Peter, etc., and ask yourself, were the Christian Israelites to whom these epistles were written one and the same with the Christ hating Judean Pharisees? Wake Up.
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Sigh, I was simply stating that the Bible...ya know what...there is no point in arguing with you as I have done it before and it leads nowhere.

I will say this though that I think many of your posts lack love and mercy. Maybe that's wrong of me to say. But that is just my opinion. I get the general impression that you hate the Jews. I could be completely wrong, but that is simply my impression.

I believe God has plans for the nation of Israel as stated in His Word.

But we can agree to disagree.

Respectfully,

Jda016
 
H

Historicist

Banned
#42
Dec 29, 2013
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#42
PennEd said:
You ignore the fact that Israel exists after a regathering of it's scattered people.

You ignore that Jesus is returning to Israel. Why is that? Why isn't he returning to America or some place else?

You ignore that the whole world is against the Jews and the final battle will take place in Israel (Armageddon)

God's promises are not contingent upon human beings.

Israel of old had vast stretches of time where MOST of the people turned from God (even their kings) to idols and other gods. They were, and continue to be, chastened and rebuked. This did not, nor does it currently, negate God's promises.

You have to use allegories for almost the whole Bible to believe that gentile Christians replaced all the promises God made to the Jews. JESUS IS JEWISH! He continues to be Jewish. WE are grafted in. Some Jews have, and WILL accept Jesus. Those that don't are lost like the rest of the world that doesn't accept Him. According to you EVERY single current Jew has to be a Christian or the nation of Israel doesn't really exist.

Ask yourself now. How and why is there a nation Israel TODAY, that is a Jewish nation? How do you rationalize that?
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Do you not realize that there is not one verse of scripture in your "argument?" Virtually every claim you make is based upon your belief that a nation of neo-Pharisees calling itself Israel makes it so. I have asked, repeatedly, for you to reconcile your idea of Israel with the Christian Israelites described in Hebrews, James, 1 Peter, Acts and elswhere. Not once have you even attempted to do this.
Why do you not recognize the difference between those "thousands of Jews," those thousands of Christians in Acts 21:20 and the anti-Christ element you call Jews? Why do you not recognize the difference between real Jews, between those who were indwelt by the Holy Spirit (Acts 2) and those described as counterfeits in Rev. 2:9; 3:9 ("them which say they are Jews, and are not but, are of the synagogue of Satan")?
The Bible, in chapter two of Acts clearly identifies those upon whom the Holy Spirit descended, as "Jews," as "thousands of Jews." Why do you not see a difference between them and "the synagogue of Satan"? Why do you call this nation Christ hating Pharisees "Jews," when the Bible (Rom. 2:28; Rev. 2:9; 3:9) clearly states---they are not Jews?
Are you as spiritually blind as they?



 
S

svedbygrace

Banned
#43
Jan 21, 2013
2,004
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#43
his

Yes, James was writing to the church, but where, as you imply, does he identify those of that church as non-Israelites?
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They probably were majority jews ! However, they were still part of the Body of Christ were race distinction is obsolete !
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#44
Apr 22, 2013
13,575
9,093
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#44
Historicist said:
Do you not realize that there is not one verse of scripture in your "argument?" Virtually every claim you make is based upon your belief that a nation of neo-Pharisees calling itself Israel makes it so. I have asked, repeatedly, for you to reconcile your idea of Israel with the Christian Israelites described in Hebrews, James, 1 Peter, Acts and elswhere. Not once have you even attempted to do this.
Why do you not recognize the difference between those "thousands of Jews," those thousands of Christians in Acts 21:20 and the anti-Christ element you call Jews? Why do you not recognize the difference between real Jews, between those who were indwelt by the Holy Spirit (Acts 2) and those described as counterfeits in Rev. 2:9; 3:9 ("them which say they are Jews, and are not but, are of the synagogue of Satan")?
The Bible, in chapter two of Acts clearly identifies those upon whom the Holy Spirit descended, as "Jews," as "thousands of Jews." Why do you not see a difference between them and "the synagogue of Satan"? Why do you call this nation Christ hating Pharisees "Jews," when the Bible (Rom. 2:28; Rev. 2:9; 3:9) clearly states---they are not Jews?
Are you as spiritually blind as they?
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Hello? Is this thing on? Somebody call an audio tech!
 
H

Historicist

Banned
#45
Dec 29, 2013
599
6
0
#45
Jda016 said:
Sigh, I was simply stating that the Bible...ya know what...there is no point in arguing with you as I have done it before and it leads nowhere.

I will say this though that I think many of your posts lack love and mercy. Maybe that's wrong of me to say. But that is just my opinion. I get the general impression that you hate the Jews. I could be completely wrong, but that is simply my impression.

I believe God has plans for the nation of Israel as stated in His Word.

But we can agree to disagree.

Respectfully,

Jda016
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Why is it never admitted by those of the Dispensational-Futurist mindset that those you glorify as "Israel" hate Jesus to the point that their religious book (the Talmud) calls him the illegitimate offspring of Roman soldier and a prostitute? Why? Why do you conveniently ignore the fact that the Talmud describes Jesus as deserving of being boiled in excrement? Why? Why, instead, do you claim that Christianity evolved out of that filthy blasphemous book the Talmud? If you don't believe me Google on Talmud blasphemy and discover suppressed truth on this subject. And who was Jesus describing when he said stated "...he who is not for me is against me?" Who? Are today's Pharisees, today's synagogue of Satan somehow excluded? I don't think so.
 
H

Historicist

Banned
#46
Dec 29, 2013
599
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#46
svedbygrace said:
his



They probably were majority jews ! However, they were still part of the Body of Christ were race distinction is obsolete !
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Why, when your Israel rejected Jesus theory is debunked does "race distinction" suddenly become "obsolete?" How convenient!
 
Noel139

Noel139

Senior Member
#47
Jul 1, 2013
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#47
Revelation 21:9 "Then one of the seven angels, of those who have the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, came and spoke with me saying, "You must come, I shall show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb." 10. then he took me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and he showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, descending out of the sky from God." A lot of people credit the congregation with being the bride, but that is not so. Jerusalem is the bride. Yes, we are all GOD's people and not one of us can go around Yaheshua and be saved by other means, but us gentiles are not Jews. That is a blood line that is of the chosen people. we all came from Adam and Eve, but the gentiles were not the ones chosen to be part of Israel. We abandoned and mistreated Israel while those of the Jews that are Israel always loved and cherished the apple of GOD'S Eye; HIS Beloved; HIS Bride.
 
H

Historicist

Banned
#48
Dec 29, 2013
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#48
Noel139 said:
Revelation 21:9 "Then one of the seven angels, of those who have the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, came and spoke with me saying, "You must come, I shall show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb." 10. then he took me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and he showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, descending out of the sky from God." A lot of people credit the congregation with being the bride, but that is not so. Jerusalem is the bride. Yes, we are all GOD's people and not one of us can go around Yaheshua and be saved by other means, but us gentiles are not Jews. That is a blood line that is of the chosen people. we all came from Adam and Eve, but the gentiles were not the ones chosen to be part of Israel. We abandoned and mistreated Israel while those of the Jews that are Israel always loved and cherished the apple of GOD'S Eye; HIS Beloved; HIS Bride.
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Your definition of Israel is based on the idea that all Israelites were Jews. A portion only of Israelites were Jews. And, even of these, a remnant only returned from the Babylonian captivity (see Ezra & Nehemiah). When Jesus walked in Palestine most Israelites were scattered abroad ("among the nations") and had been for over 600 years. How can evangelicals be so ignorant of this? Who do you think James was writing to when he addressed his epistle to "...the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad" (James 1:1)? Do you really thing they were one and the same with the Christ hating Pharisees you seem to adore? You have been drinking a type of theological Kool Aide, and it is laced with the leaven, with the teaching oftoday's Pharisees, with today's "synagogue of Satan" (see Rev. 2:9; 3:9). Please reconsider your policy of blind unconditional support for the people of the Talmud, they are not the Israel of God.
 
H

Historicist

Banned
#49
Dec 29, 2013
599
6
0
#49
PennEd said:
You ignore the fact that Israel exists after a regathering of it's scattered people.

You ignore that Jesus is returning to Israel. Why is that? Why isn't he returning to America or some place else?

You ignore that the whole world is against the Jews and the final battle will take place in Israel (Armageddon)

God's promises are not contingent upon human beings.

Israel of old had vast stretches of time where MOST of the people turned from God (even their kings) to idols and other gods. They were, and continue to be, chastened and rebuked. This did not, nor does it currently, negate God's promises.

You have to use allegories for almost the whole Bible to believe that gentile Christians replaced all the promises God made to the Jews. JESUS IS JEWISH! He continues to be Jewish. WE are grafted in. Some Jews have, and WILL accept Jesus. Those that don't are lost like the rest of the world that doesn't accept Him. According to you EVERY single current Jew has to be a Christian or the nation of Israel doesn't really exist.

Ask yourself now. How and why is there a nation Israel TODAY, that is a Jewish nation? How do you rationalize that?
Click to expand...

When you say "Jesus is Jewish! He continues to be Jewish" does this mean that Messiah, is of non-Israelitish Khazar ancestry? Doe this mean that Christ's teachings were based upon a blasphemous religious book called the Talmud, a book that calls Him the son of a prostitute and a Roman soldier? When you say "Jesus is Jewish! He continues to be Jewish" does this mean that He is of the Pharisaical mindset, that He is one and the same with those of whom he said, "...ye are of your father the devil...ye are not of God" (John 8:44, 47)? Is this what you mean by being "Jewish?"
Yes, Jesus was a Jew, a real Jew (see Romans 2:28-29). This means that he was not one and the same with the People of the Talmud, with today's counterfeit Jews: "...them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are of the synagogue of Satan" (Rev. 2:9; 3:9). No, Jesus was not one and the same with these people and their Satanic religion. Wake up!
 
P

psalm6819

Guest
#50
#50
Historicist said:

When you say "Jesus is Jewish! He continues to be Jewish" does this mean that Messiah, is of non-Israelitish Khazar ancestry? Doe this mean that Christ's teachings were based upon a blasphemous religious book called the Talmud, a book that calls Him the son of a prostitute and a Roman soldier? When you say "Jesus is Jewish! He continues to be Jewish" does this mean that He is of the Pharisaical mindset, that He is one and the same with those of whom he said, "...ye are of your father the devil...ye are not of God" (John 8:44, 47)? Is this what you mean by being "Jewish?"
Yes, Jesus was a Jew, a real Jew (see Romans 2:28-29). This means that he was not one and the same with the People of the Talmud, with today's counterfeit Jews: "...them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are of the synagogue of Satan" (Rev. 2:9; 3:9). No, Jesus was not one and the same with these people and their Satanic religion. Wake up!
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Good Morning Historicist, I would pose two queries to you: would you tell me what an "American" is? and why don't you think God loves each individual equally ? (neither jew, nor gentile, male nor female)
 
Elizabeth619

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
#51
Jul 19, 2011
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#51
i thought God was no respecter of persons??
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#52
Jul 31, 2013
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#52
Elizabeth619 said:
i thought God was no respecter of persons??
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i thought Deuteronomy was part of the Bible?

For you are a people holy to the LORD your God, and the LORD has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.
(Deuteronomy 14:2)
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#53
Jul 31, 2013
37,773
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#53
Ezekiel 20:

33 As I live, saith the Lord God, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:
34 And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.
35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.
36 Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the LordGod.
37 And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:
38 And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
39 As for you, O house of Israel, thus saith the Lord God; Go ye, serve ye every one his idols, and hereafter also, if ye will not hearken unto me: but pollute ye my holy name no more with your gifts, and with your idols.
40 For in mine holy mountain, in the mountain of the height of Israel, saith the Lord God, there shall all the house of Israel, all of them in the land, serve me: there will I accept them, and there will I require your offerings, and the firstfruits of your oblations, with all your holy things.
41 I will accept you with your sweet savour, when I bring you out from the people, and gather you out of the countries wherein ye have been scattered; and I will be sanctified in you before the heathen.
42 And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I shall bring you into the land of Israel, into the country for the which I lifted up mine hand to give it to your fathers.
43 And there shall ye remember your ways, and all your doings, wherein ye have been defiled; and ye shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for all your evils that ye have committed.
44 And ye shall know that I am the Lord when I have wrought with you for my name's sake, not according to your wicked ways, nor according to your corrupt doings, O ye house of Israel, saith the Lord God.

i read about a God who has chosen Israel from out of the world long ago, and who through His graciousness has grafted us gentiles into the tree.
a God who for His name's sake will never forsake Israel, but because He is holy, chastises her; for Israel the inclusion of the gentiles (most of us here) is a shame and a rebuke.
i read about a God who as He promised, plead with His people face-to-face -- THE CHRIST! -- but who won't for the sake of their fathers and for the sake of His name and His covenant, forsake her completely.

ask yourself why Israel still exists as a people and a nation. is it not for the sake of the name of the Lord, that the heathen (that's us, before salvation - gentiles) may not look down on it?

He will purge out from them the rebels, like He said. He will deal with them, not according to their doings, but in graciousness, for His name's sake, like He said. we will all know that He is the Lord, and there is no other.

how many of us are ready to be judged in the same way that we judge the only nation He ever called His own?
 
H

Historicist

Banned
#55
Dec 29, 2013
599
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#55
posthuman said:
i thought Deuteronomy was part of the Bible?

For you are a people holy to the LORD your God, and the LORD has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.
(Deuteronomy 14:2)
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You are assuming that this was written of today's "synagogue of Satan" (Rev. 2:9; 3:9), to the people of the Talmud. They are not one and the same people.
 
H

Historicist

Banned
#57
Dec 29, 2013
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#57
psalm6819 said:
Good Morning Historicist, I would pose two queries to you: would you tell me what an "American" is? and why don't you think God loves each individual equally ? (neither jew, nor gentile, male nor female)
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1. An American is someone whose citizenship is of America. 2. God does not, as you imply, love all equally. Example:

I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel...It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. Matthew 15:24-26

As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Essau have I hated. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Romans 9:13-14

You, apparently, think there is "unrighteousness with God." I do not. You, as Paul then explained "repliest against God."

Nay, but, O man who are thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump, to make on vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor? Romans 9:20-21

Your comment reveals that, not only do you do not understand the terms, Jews and Gentiles, but that you do not accept the sovereignty of God. Stop drinking that Dispensational-Futurist Kool Aid.



 
H

Historicist

Banned
#58
Dec 29, 2013
599
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#58
Elizabeth619 said:
So Peter lied in Acts 10:34?
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Your lack of discernment and desire for political correctness prevents you from understanding that the above scripture reference is not comparing Israelites to Canaanites (remember Matt. 15:24). It is comparing Jews (i.e., Judah portion of Israel) to non-Jew Israelites of the dispersion. Read post #57 (mine), and stop reading political correctness in scripture. God does not want you to do this.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#59
Jul 31, 2013
37,773
13,533
113
#59
Historicist said:
You are assuming that this was written of today's "synagogue of Satan" (Rev. 2:9; 3:9), to the people of the Talmud. They are not one and the same people.
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no, i'm assuming that the Lord for His name's sake will never completely forsake Israel. and not just assuming it, i am reading that all throughout the old testament scriptures.

You have neither heard nor understood;
from of old your ears have not been open.
Well do I know how treacherous you are;
you were called a rebel from birth.

For my own name’s sake I delay my wrath;
for the sake of my praise I hold it back from you,
so as not to destroy you completely.

See, I have refined you, though not as silver;
I have tested you in the furnace of affliction.

For my own sake, for my own sake, I do this.
How can I let myself be defamed?
I will not yield my glory to another.

(Isaiah 48:8-11)


but specifically i quoted Deuteronomy to show that though God is not a respecter of persons, He has chosen a people to bear His name in times past, just as He now chooses from among the rest of the world, a people to be grafted into that cultivated tree, and so we that believe now bear His name.


 
F

faroukfarouk

Banned
#60
Feb 21, 2014
5,672
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#60
I find it hard to grasp the train of thought in this thread.
 
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