Re: Why is the "Jezebel spirit" concept mostly in Charismatic, Pentecostal, WOF circl
But it's not region or church specific.
as in all the churches of the saints.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Let your[SUP][d][/SUP] women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. [SUP]35 [/SUP]And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Or did the word of God come originally from you? Or was it you only that it reached? [SUP]37[/SUP]If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord. [SUP]38 [/SUP]But if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant.[SUP][e]
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It's a command of the Lord to all churches, isn't region or church specific, and is based on the order of creation.[/SUP]
Ok, this is an EXTREMELY difficult passage. I've been reading scholars, Greek and trying to decide if this is universal or not.
In the first place, Paul is writing this letter to the church in Corinth. Not ALL the churches. But apparently in many towns, there was no large church, but rather many small "house groups". Therefore, Paul is likely talking to "all" the churches in the area of Corinth. Not ALL the churches in the world for ever and ever, Amen.
Here is one of the better explanations I found, although there are in fact 20 or 30 different ways this passage has been dealt with, some better than others.
"Paul thinks of prophecy primarily as revelation from God delivered through believers
in the context of the church, where the prophecy may be evaluated (14:23-29). (b) Distinctions between “smaller house groups” and “church” may not have been all that intelligible to the first Christians, who commonly met in private homes. When the “church” in a city was large enough (as certainly in Jerusalem, Antioch, Ephesus, and possibly Corinth) to overflow the largest private accommodation, it must have been rather difficult, once opposition was established, to find a public venue large enough to accommodate all the believers of that city; i.e., the house groups in such instances constituted the assembly of the church. (c) The language of 11:16 (“If anyone wants to be contentious about this, we have no other practice—nor do the churches of God.”) seems to suggest a church concern, not merely the concern of private or small-group piety. The “we”/”church of God” parallel either means that Paul has never allowed the practice, and the churches have followed his lead; or that Paul and the church in Ephesus (from which he is writing) constitute the “we” that have not followed the practice, and again the other churches have adopted the same stance. Either way, when Paul adopts the same tone elsewhere (see especially 14:33b, 36), he is talking about conduct in an assembly. (d) The immediately succeeding verses (11:17-34) are certainly devoted to an ordinance designed for the assembly. (e) If someone points out that 11:2-16, unlike 14:33b-36, does not include the phrase “in the church,” it must also be observed that 11:2-16 does not restrict the venue to the private home or small group. (f) Whether the restriction in 11:2-16 requires some kind of hat or a distinctive coiffure, it becomes faintly ridiculous in proportion to the degree of privateness envisaged. If the restriction pertains to every venue except the church assembly, does this mean the Christian wife must postpone her private prayer until she has hurried to her chambers and donned her headpiece? The restriction is coherent only in a public setting. (g) Above all, the universality of the promise of Joel, cited at Pentecost, that the Holy Spirit would be poured out on men and women such that both would prophesy as constituent members of the community of the new covenant, seems somehow less than transparent if the women may display their inheritance only outside the gathered messianic community."
https://bible.org/seriespage/silent-churches-role-women-1-corinthians-1433b-36
Again, context is everything. Either there is a big contradiction in 1 Corinthians about what women are allowed to do, or there is another, more rational explanation. Considering both Jesus and Paul allowed women to minister, it seems unlikely that Paul was contradicting himself with a complete prohibition of all women speaking for all time.
Another good discussion is that in the Greek, the letter eta η, is found in the earliest manuscripts, and in other places in 1 Corinthians. This can be an interjection, which means "nonsense". Paul could have been quoting someone who said women are to keep quiet in all the churches, then he interjects "nonsense" with the letter eta, and then continues to explain that it is order and decency that is the point, and how he is rejecting the idea that women should be silenced.
"[SUP]36 [/SUP]Or was it from you that the word of God came? Or are you the only ones it has reached? [SUP]37 [/SUP]If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord. [SUP]38 [/SUP]If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized. [SUP]39 [/SUP]So, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. [SUP]40 [/SUP]But all things should be done decently and in order." 1 Cor. 14:36-40
As for the "order of creation", man and women were created as equals. Whether Adam was created first means nothing, unless you are still following the ancient laws of primogeniture. In that case, the first born gets everything, - land, title and inheritance. However, since Adam and Eve were created, not born, and that principle is no longer used, Adam does not retain some kind of imaginary "authority" because he was created first. Of course, you might rightfully bring up 1 Tim. 2:13, but in content, it reads like this:
"For Adam was formed first, then Eve; [SUP]14 [/SUP]and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control." 1 Tim. 2:13-15
Verse 15 also seems like a contradiction to the entire gospel. Women are saved by believing and following Christ. And many women did not marry, or have children. Unlikely they were not saved. In fact, the "she" in verse 15 may likely refer back to Eve, who bore the son and the line which led to Abraham, David and eventually Christ, who saved us all.
In fact, the fall is really the point where God assigns roles. As Christians, Christ has redeemed us from the fall, and that means that we should be treating one another according to Gal 3:28, which I will quote again.
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Gal. 3:28
At any rate, this is a very difficult passage, and if I am proved wrong, I will concede the point. However, the straight forward reading is not always the right one. Too many wrong doctrines have been formed by not looking at the context of the passage, the chapter and the book. Paul gives women the right to pray and prophesy in church in 1 Cor. 11. Does he take it away forever only 3 chapters later? I doubt it!
