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Dec 20, 2011
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#1
Firstly I would like to promise you all I did not come here to start trouble or get into arguments, I am here however to start intelligent conversation and debate (but I will not stand to let debate slide into pointless argument)

My belief system is vastly different from many of your own I can assure you, if you can't handle that or respect that I have my own beliefs than I do not wish to talk to you. I can respect your beliefs and remain open minded enough to listen to what it is you have to say, I will not belittle you or your beliefs and I would appreciate the same in return.

If any of you would like to talk to me please feel free but keep in mind that any "negative" comments in my direction will get no response from me, although I would expect you all to be more Christian than to be so low as to do so.

Please feel free to attempt to "save my soul" I fully expect it from you, in fact I would be rather annoyed if none of you attempted to do so, being as you call yourselves Christians.

I would like to start the conversation off by asking any of you who are open minded enough, to watch a movie on Netflix Instant Watch, the movie is about homosexuality as it relates to the Bible, even though the movie uses the word "faggot" once I would hope it will not turn you off from watching this movie since it is a Christian man who in fact uses the word.

While I'm sure many of you will be at my throat calling me the Anti-Christ for attempting to start an open minded conversation on such a controversial subject on a Christ based forum, I hope there are a few of you who will be willing to watch the movie and have a CALM, OPEN MINDED, INSULT FREE conversation with me about the movie and the subjects it discusses.
 
Dec 20, 2011
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#2
I just realized I completely forgot to tell you the name of the movie, (silly me, I was so worried about defending myself from the impending onslaught) the movie is called, "For The Bible Tells Me So"
 

Jilly81

Senior Member
Jan 16, 2011
2,365
136
63
#3
Non-Believer;604597 Please feel free to attempt to "save my soul" I fully expect it from you said:
This really touched my heart, Non-Believer :). I'll make this short; the Gospel isn't complicated, but you wouldn't believe how much peace there is in having Jesus Christ as your best friend and Lord :). He absolutely adores you, no matter what you've done :). He's the only one who can save anybody's soul....His death on the cross paid the price for our sins since He was the perfect Son of God :). He didn't want to go through that pain and humiliation of being tortured and murdered, but He did it for us because we can't save ourselves. The story has a wonderfully happy ending, as He arose from the grave, and lives forever, offering Salvation to all who will accept Him as their Savior :). Pleas don't look at this as me trying to rush you into a decision; the Bible actually says not to base your faith on the words of man, but rather on the power of God alone.
 
Dec 20, 2011
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#4
This really touched my heart, Non-Believer :). I'll make this short; the Gospel isn't complicated, but you wouldn't believe how much peace there is in having Jesus Christ as your best friend and Lord :). He absolutely adores you, no matter what you've done :). He's the only one who can save anybody's soul....His death on the cross paid the price for our sins since He was the perfect Son of God :). He didn't want to go through that pain and humiliation of being tortured and murdered, but He did it for us because we can't save ourselves. The story has a wonderfully happy ending, as He arose from the grave, and lives forever, offering Salvation to all who will accept Him as their Savior :). Pleas don't look at this as me trying to rush you into a decision; the Bible actually says not to base your faith on the words of man, but rather on the power of God alone.
I am very familiar with the Bible, Jilly. I do believe in God or gods as it were, though not Jesus Christ (though many of you believe him to be one and the same) and I am very much at peace and am very happy with my belief system.

Specifically what I meant by that line of text you quoted was this; If you call yourself a Christian and do not attempt to "save souls" or share the "Word" with non-believers (such as myself) then perhaps you should find something else to call yourself, because as I understand it, it is the number one priority of Christians to share their religion and beliefs with as many people as possible, and if you really feel Jesus Christ is the greatest thing since sliced bread, then I don't blame you in the least for doing so, like I said before I would be annoyed if you didn't try.
 

Snackersmom

Senior Member
May 10, 2011
1,482
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#5
Hi, Non-Believer, it's good to have you here. I hope the lack of onslaught hasn't left you feeling ignored, hehe. If you really want to experience what you were expecting, then I suppose I could shriek "Repent, ye!" at you, but I'd really rather not, if you don't mind :D.

I like calm, open-minded, insult-free discussions as well, but I'm not an expert on the topic you brought up. If I get a chance to watch the movie, I'll let you know. I am intrigued by your honesty and astute-ness; Why is it you know more about the way Christians should be behaving than most Christians do? (I'm not being sarcastic; seriously, many of us could take a lesson from what you have stated above). Feel free to drop me a P.M. if you want to talk. And, PLEASE stay out of the Bible-discussion forum. There are some nice people there, but also a lot of clueless knuckle-heads who wouldn't appreciate or deserve the calm, rational perspective you present. Anyway, thanks for coming, it's good to have you. I hope we get a chance to chat. -Nichole

P.S. Jesus is so many times more amazing than sliced bread, it's not even funny. Just sayin' :)
 

Devoted2JC

Senior Member
Jan 16, 2011
4,260
77
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#6
Hello welcome to Christian Chat.
God Bless You,
 
O

olderisgood62

Guest
#7
Hello Non-Believer,
I am new to this site as well. And though we obviously have differing opinions on what we believe. From my point of view after reading your introduction. You would quickly come to the same conclusion after reading mine.
Your choice of discussion topic could be considered a tender subject to me. My brother is a very open homosexual. We have often discussed our differing beliefs in what he believes to be an exceptable lifestyle and I see as a blatantly wrong one. Neither one of us giving a bit on our beliefs. It definatly makes for some interesting conversations. Some becoming rather excited in each of our defense of our individule beliefs. But you know, he is still my brother and I still love him. I will not let my personal actions or words get to the point of driving him further from where I believe he should be. I stick strictly to what I find in Gods word that tells us that practicing that lifestyle as it has become known as is directly against Gods word. A quote I heard long ago applies in how I handle this. "Love the sinner, hate the sin".
I really believe that I cannot be a judge and jury towards any individule. That is up to God. Yet I am required by my belief and faith in God to point out those things I see as wrong. My grandfather said it best, "I am not a judge, I am a simple fruit inspector." a man will be known by the "fruit"he bears. I am willing to discuss this topic openly with you just as I do with my brother. I will state it would be my prayer through it that in seeing the truths of Gods word on this topic you would also see the truths in Gods word about how much he wants you to come to know Him personally through the knowledge of saving grace found through His Son. Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
 
Dec 20, 2011
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#8
Well I'm glad someone finally decided to talk to be about the subject, but honestly I don't really know enough to have a poignant conversation on the topic, I simply thought that the particular movie I mentioned was a powerful eye-opener, and seeing as you have an openly gay brother I think you would enjoy the movie, I certainly don't think it will completely change your mind on the subject, but I think it would maybe open your eyes to the oppression of many various peoples by use of the bible.
 
R

Redneck-for-God

Guest
#9
Merry Christmas Non Believer, and welcome! First, I have horrible spelling, and grammer... So please, I already have a mother who corrects everything I say, and spell, I don't need another :D Lol Lastly, please note, I sometimes can be blunt, and to the point. It isn't rudeness, its the 10+ years I have spent in government work, dealing with a variety of people from normal citizens, to military, to police, and public works... So that tends to bring out the bluntness very quickly :)

Now I don't claim to be a theologian, or a Bible scholar, but I am a God fearing man, who professes the name of Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. Now first I want to tell you nothing gets my fire for Christ burning more than a good DEBATE, not argument, over religious beliefs! I have Hindu friends, New Age friends, and even Muslim friends. I respect their beliefs and they respect mine. Quick question, are you a member of like a New Age, or Science, Mind, and Spirit church? Its just your views sound very similar to one of them churches I went to with a friend a while back.

Now I know you wanted to talk about homosexuality, but I would just like to start of by saying I am only one with the body of Christ, I am am a member of His church, and the bridegroom of Christ. I stand through Christ's blood as a co-air to the kingdom of heaven. Also there is no mother earth or mother nature, only Father God. God had no mother, and no wife. Simply speaking, there for there is no mother (obviously I am not Catholic, because I don't believe there is anything holy about Christ's mother Mary either, but I do respect their doing so). If you believe in God, no matter your religion, I hope you can see that point of view weather you agree with it or not!

Now on to homosexuality, it is wrong. I have been planning on renewing my Netflix after New years... Christmas time isn't the time to be getting any extras on my budget... So I will attemt to watch your movie then, but in the mean time let me say this... Homosexuality is wrong, absolutely wrong. I have worked with at least one homosexual throughout my working experience, roughly 15 years total. One was even a Catholic! One day he asked me if I thought he could get in to heaven. That one threw me for a loop, as I wasn't sure how to answer, then I believe the power of the Holy Spirit took over, because I said yes. I know all about Sodom and Gommorah, and I know all about the warnings throughout the Bible about sexual immorality in general, but I have come to the conclusion that they can make it to heaven! Why? First, you stated you have read the Bible, I am assuming that means most if not all of it, so who did Christ hang out with (asside from his diciples)? Sinners! He went to tax collectors houses, talked to prostitutes, and all sorts of other sinners! Why did he do this? Because it is better to lead one sinner (non believer) to God, than to have 100 holy men repent!

Now obviously I am not Jesus Christ, but he set the example. He lead the way. These gay people that I work with, what makes their sin any worse than mine? Why is their being gay any worse than my moment of weakness, lusting over the skimpily dressed woman in front of me at the check out lane in the grocery store, or the sexy woman on TV or the internet? Why is being gay any worse than me dropping the F bomb when someone really makes me angry. Sir, these are sins I fight with all the time! I am professing them to you, and everyone who reads this, so that I may be forgiven! I let man judge me, and every sunday I take communion, I judge myself, so that I can not just ask forgiveness, but completely repent! Never to do again and never to be brought up again!

Lastly, and this is something I tell my church when I do the Communion devotions... What did Jesus say? What did He say when he healed someone? Woman, or Man, you are healed, go forth and sin no more. Well that is my message to Christians, instead of judging (for the measure in which you judge others, you also shall be judged), forgive them, and tell them to go, and sin no more.

I will walk to the cross for a lesbian woman, and I will stand with a gay man against a angry mob, and take a beaten, or even be killed with him. Why? Because that is what Jesus would do. Let the first person without sin cast the first stone, throw the first punch, shoot the first round. I tell you the truth,anyone who damns another, damns his own soul. I will not be that someone!

Well now that you got the sermon, let me finish by saying may God bless you, Christian Chat, and may God bless the United States of America and all the diversity of people and religions in it!
 
O

olderisgood62

Guest
#10
That movie sounds like it could be a drama I'm more of the science fiction type. But I will consider watching it. I will see if I can find it in my Netflix listing.

Your comment about oppression I am sad to say I know there is much truth to that. If you truly want to consider all aspects of feelings towards those practicing that lifestyle you should think about the most widely used form of that oppression, discrimination. Even though I am willing to openly discuss this topic. I must still through my belief that the lifestyles wrong separate myself from them. In effect that does makeitapear that I am practicing a form of discrimination. Though as long as I do not ignore one who approaches me wishing to honestly discuss the topic. I am fulfilling my responsibility of living a Christ like , God honoring life.
You have stated that you are familiar with the Bible so you should know that Christ's most out spoken critics were the leaders of the Jewish religious system. Their most common condemnation of Christ was the fact that he was preaching, and teaching to the same Type of people. Prostitutes and tax collectors(who at the time were considered to be just as sinful as if not moreso than prostitutes). It is a sad fact that many Christians will take separation to those same extremes. And yet if we are to reach all that are lost we cannot ignore even those who are considered the worst of sinners.
Matthew one of the twelve disciples was a tax collecter. The apostle Paul a murderer. My wife's personal favorite, the woman at the well a prostitute, Christ had a very personal discussion with her. To truly be a Christian one must follow Christ's example. He did not ignore these people. He did not perform acts of violence against them. He simply and plainly showed them the sin in their lifestyles. that is the example we are clearly shown we must follow.
 
O

olderisgood62

Guest
#11
Merry Christmas Non Believer, and welcome! First, I have horrible spelling, and grammer... So please, I already have a mother who corrects everything I say, and spell, I don't need another :D Lol Lastly, please note, I sometimes can be blunt, and to the point. It isn't rudeness, its the 10+ years I have spent in government work, dealing with a variety of people from normal citizens, to military, to police, and public works... So that tends to bring out the bluntness very quickly :)

Now I don't claim to be a theologian, or a Bible scholar, but I am a God fearing man, who professes the name of Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. Now first I want to tell you nothing gets my fire for Christ burning more than a good DEBATE, not argument, over religious beliefs! I have Hindu friends, New Age friends, and even Muslim friends. I respect their beliefs and they respect mine. Quick question, are you a member of like a New Age, or Science, Mind, and Spirit church? Its just your views sound very similar to one of them churches I went to with a friend a while back.

Now I know you wanted to talk about homosexuality, but I would just like to start of by saying I am only one with the body of Christ, I am am a member of His church, and the bridegroom of Christ. I stand through Christ's blood as a co-air to the kingdom of heaven. Also there is no mother earth or mother nature, only Father God. God had no mother, and no wife. Simply speaking, there for there is no mother (obviously I am not Catholic, because I don't believe there is anything holy about Christ's mother Mary either, but I do respect their doing so). If you believe in God, no matter your religion, I hope you can see that point of view weather you agree with it or not!

Now on to homosexuality, it is wrong. I have been planning on renewing my Netflix after New years... Christmas time isn't the time to be getting any extras on my budget... So I will attemt to watch your movie then, but in the mean time let me say this... Homosexuality is wrong, absolutely wrong. I have worked with at least one homosexual throughout my working experience, roughly 15 years total. One was even a Catholic! One day he asked me if I thought he could get in to heaven. That one threw me for a loop, as I wasn't sure how to answer, then I believe the power of the Holy Spirit took over, because I said yes. I know all about Sodom and Gommorah, and I know all about the warnings throughout the Bible about sexual immorality in general, but I have come to the conclusion that they can make it to heaven! Why? First, you stated you have read the Bible, I am assuming that means most if not all of it, so who did Christ hang out with (asside from his diciples)? Sinners! He went to tax collectors houses, talked to prostitutes, and all sorts of other sinners! Why did he do this? Because it is better to lead one sinner (non believer) to God, than to have 100 holy men repent!

Now obviously I am not Jesus Christ, but he set the example. He lead the way. These gay people that I work with, what makes their sin any worse than mine? Why is their being gay any worse than my moment of weakness, lusting over the skimpily dressed woman in front of me at the check out lane in the grocery store, or the sexy woman on TV or the internet? Why is being gay any worse than me dropping the F bomb when someone really makes me angry. Sir, these are sins I fight with all the time! I am professing them to you, and everyone who reads this, so that I may be forgiven! I let man judge me, and every sunday I take communion, I judge myself, so that I can not just ask forgiveness, but completely repent! Never to do again and never to be brought up again!

Lastly, and this is something I tell my church when I do the Communion devotions... What did Jesus say? What did He say when he healed someone? Woman, or Man, you are healed, go forth and sin no more. Well that is my message to Christians, instead of judging (for the measure in which you judge others, you also shall be judged), forgive them, and tell them to go, and sin no more.

I will walk to the cross for a lesbian woman, and I will stand with a gay man against a angry mob, and take a beaten, or even be killed with him. Why? Because that is what Jesus would do. Let the first person without sin cast the first stone, throw the first punch, shoot the first round. I tell you the truth,anyone who damns another, damns his own soul. I will not be that someone!

Well now that you got the sermon, let me finish by saying may God bless you, Christian Chat, and may God bless the United States of America and all the diversity of people and religions in it!
Redneck-for-God,
I appreciate that response.
 
Dec 20, 2011
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#12
There is quite a bit I would like to say, but I must get ready to attend a Christmas event w/ my mom at her church (she is a Christian btw.) and after that I'm heading back to the camp where I'm staying at w/ our local Occupy movement, so unfortunately I won't be back tonight to discuss anything w/ you wonderful people, but if you could all please have patience I will surely be back tomorrow and we all can all debate each others ears off : ) Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night!
 
R

Redneck-for-God

Guest
#13
Lol, your an occupier? Intresting. We could debate that whole movement to! I disagree with the occupy movement. You just let me know, and I will debate that to! I won't get into another sermon about how that movement is wrong though :) Let me say this, some of your friends thought it right to threaten my life on a you tube thread. Lets just say, I didn't respond very well, and lost what little respect I had for the Occupy movement right then and there!
 
Dec 20, 2011
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#14
well, I'll try to remain respectful here Redneck, but quite frankly your way of thinking is completely ----edited-----, if you going around generalizing whole groups of people because a couple of idiots threatened you on THE INTERNET!< (which is renowned for it's stupid people) then you should really take a close look at the way your brain is working, because it's people who think like that that are the main problem with this world, " OMG! some extremist islamist blew up some buildings! I hate all followers of islam now! " Some gay guys called me a jerk! I'm going to go bash some gay peoples heads in now! "A black guy shot someone! let's go hang 50 black people from a tree!" Do I really need to go on? Evaluate yourself bro, you're way of thinking is flawed.
 
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A

amstrick

Guest
#15
May I ask why you are part of the Occupy Movement?
 
R

Redneck-for-God

Guest
#16
well, I'll try to remain respectful here Redneck, but quite frankly your way of thinking is completely ----edited-----, if you going around generalizing whole groups of people because a couple of idiots threatened you on THE INTERNET!< (which is renowned for it's stupid people) then you should really take a close look at the way your brain is working, because it's people who think like that that are the main problem with this world, " OMG! some extremist islamist blew up some buildings! I hate all followers of islam now! " Some gay guys called me a jerk! I'm going to go bash some gay peoples heads in now! "A black guy shot someone! let's go hang 50 black people from a tree!" Do I really need to go on? Evaluate yourself bro, you're way of thinking is flawed.
Well, facinating. I never said anything about generalizing everybody... but you did. You and the rest of your movement... "We are the 99%" And as far as the rest of your statement goes, it was a complete LIE as well! Perhaps you forgot to read my first post. I no more group extreme islamists with everyday islam, than I do extreme Christians like westburo baptist church with main stream Christianity. I no more want to bash a gay persons head in, than I want to hurt my own family. Lastly, we have a justice system for and black, white, asian, or hispanic guy who goes and shoots someone, so we don't need to do group hangings. Besides I am not racist, and if thats what you thought by Redneck for my screen name, then perhaps your the one grouping people...

Trust me, if you knew me, knew my morals, my ethics, and my character, you wouldn't say these things. I have worked very hard to have a reputation in my circle of friends, family, and co-workers to be the one person who will give an honest nonbiast opinion. I work hard at my friendships with both my Christian and non-Christian friends. Perhaps you should re read my first and second statements, and revise your remarks. As far as an respectful debate goes, well you obviously can not do that either, so as for me, I will not argue with you, and will not insult you, and I will not tell you your thinking is ---edited---, and call you stupid, but I will bless you. So may the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob bless you and keep you. May the Lord make his face to shine upon you, and be gracious unto you. May the Lord turn his face toward you, and give you his peace. In Jesus name, Amen.
 
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