Be born again from water and Spirit John Chapter 3

# 12 IMO we are begotten by God (born of God) when we receive Jesus by believing in His name. (John 1: 12, 13) This is accomplished through the word, the gospel. (1 Peter 1: 23; 1 Cor. 4: 15) We are given the right to become children of God which is accomplished by faith through baptism. (Gal. 3: 26, 27) When we are baptized (immersed in water) in the name of Christ, by faith, we are given the gift of the Holy Spirit abundantly, immersing, us in the Spirit, as we come forth from this baptismal experience, we are born (come forth) from both water and the Spirit. (John 3: 3, 5) God bless.

# 14 Is there Scriptural warrant for saying that baptism 'cleanses'?

Yes, IMO there is warrant if we keep in mind that the water, itself, does not cleanse but when we appeal to God for a good conscience by baptism, (1 Peter 3: 210 we are calling upon the name of the Lord and the Lord will sprinkle us with the blood of Christ. The Spirit has to do with life, regeneration and renewal. Ez. 36: 25, to which you nearly referred, brings the two elements together, cleansing by water, and regeneration and renewal by the Spirit (v 26, Ez. 37: 14) We need both purification and regeneration.

Our sins are forgiven by repentance and baptism in water in the name of Christ. (Acts 2: 38, 39)
Paul's sins were washed away in baptism. (Acts 22: 16)
We are freed from sin by our death to self when baptized. (Rom 6: 7)
We are freed from sin when we--die, buried, resurrected--in baptism. (Rom. 6: 17, 18)
We have redemption from sin in Christ; we are baptized into Christ. (Eph. 1; 3, 7; Col 1: 14; Rom. 6: 3)
We are cleansed by water as directed by the word. (Eph. 5: 26)
We are saved by the washing of regeneration. (Titus 3: 5)
As our bodies are washed with water, our conscience is sprinkled clean by the blood of Christ. (Heb. 10: 22; 9: 14)
When we obey Jesus we are sprinkled with the blood of Christ. (1 Peter 1: 2)

Naaman was cleansed by dipping in the Jordan river. (2 Kings 5: 10, 13, 14)
God bless.

Your religious views place scripture in conflict with itself. We are saved by grace. We are not saved by water baptism.

By grace Jesus baptizes us with the Holy Spirit the moment we call upon Him to save us. We become the new creature in Christ by grace through the Holy Spirit not through water.

The blood of Christ is the only thing that can cleanse us from our sin. Water can only be symbolic not efficacious in salvation.

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

If an unsaved man enters the baptismal pool what emerges afterward is a wet sinner. Only Christ saves and only by grace.


For the cause of Christ
Roger

In the first place, if being healed from leprosy is an illustration of salvation, we have another case that reveals one can be saved without any water. Read it in (Luke 5:12-15). No water is found here. Secondly, Naaman was not even a believer until after dipping in Jordan. He said "NOW" (after being healed) I know that there is no God in all the earth, but in Israel," (2 Kings 5:15) and vowed to worship only Him (vs. 17). If we follow this "example," we will have to baptized unbelievers! Naaman received cleansing from leprosy (not eternal life) after he dipped in the Jordan 7 times, but no sins were literally remitted for Naaman in Jordan. Likewise, water baptism does not literally remit sins. The NT uses the experience of Naaman as illustrative of the SOVEREIGNTY OF GOD, not of salvation by water baptism. Naaman was a heathen, not a believer, and did not know God until the miracle occurred. The purpose of the miracle had nothing to do with salvation by water baptism, but was to demonstrate "there is a prophet in Israel" (2 Kings 5:8) and that "there is no God in all the earth, but in Israel," as Naaman found out (2 Kings 5:15).

As long as you continue to confuse the picture (water baptism) with the reality (Spirit baptism) you will remain confused about when and how we are saved and what water baptism signifies, rather than procures. It's a shame that your church of Christ indoctrination has kept you blinded from the truth, but it's still not too late for you to REPENT and BELIEVE the gospel. Only then will the blinders be lifted. I will continue to pray for you.

# 18 There are similarities between natural birth and spiritual birth but they are not identical. For example one must be begotten by God (John 1: 12, 13) before he is born again spiritually, but being washed by a doctor at birth, IMO, is not one of them. God bless.

# 23 In John 3: 5 "water" is not modified, there is no legitimate reason to assume it means anything other than actual water. Why wouldn't we think of baptism? John the baptist was preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. This baptism, in water, was God given, the counsel of God. (Luke 7: 30) Jesus and his disciples were making and baptizing more disciples then John. (John 4: 1, 2) Then at the end of His earthly ministry, Jesus authorized baptism, in water, in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit for all nations, for everyone. (Matt. 28: 18- 20; Mark 16: 15, 16; Acts 2: 38, 39)

Yes, the Spirit was to be given to all of God's children for the purpose of regeneration and renewal and much more, but the Spirit is not the propitiation for our sins, Jesus made that sacrifice. His death secured that blessing for us and when we are baptized into Christ, we are baptized into His death. The giving of the Spirit does not negate or diminish that which Jesus had previously authorized. Please give us your scriptural references for the spiritual washing or purification of the soul accomplished by the Holy Spirit. God bless.

# 25 IMO when we repent and are baptized, in water, in the name of Christ, we are baptized into Christ and we are given the Holy Spirit as a gift. This gift is given to us richly and abundantly (Titus 3: 5, 6) so that we are all immersed in the Spirit. (1 Cor 12: 13) God bless.

# 28 The promise of the gift of the Holy Spirit was made to those who through faith, repent and are baptized in the name of Christ for the forgiveness of sin. (Acts 2: 38, 39)Teaching about the Spirit does not negate the baptism in the name of Christ which is for all. God bless.

# 43 We are saved by grace through faith; repentance and baptism are works of faith (1 Thess. 1: 3) therefore they do not, IMO, conflict with either grace or faith. Both Jesus and Peter said that baptism saves. (Mark 16; 15, 16; 1 Peter 3: 21) Paul said that the washing of regeneration saves. (Titus 3: 5) Perhaps it is time for you to reexamine your theology of salvation. We become that new creature by the doing of God (1 Cor. 1: 30), when we by faith obey Jesus. At that time we are sprinkled with the blood of Christ. (1 Peter 1: 2) As our bodies are washed with pure water, our conscience is sprinkled clean by the blood of Christ. (Heb. 10; 22; 9: 14) Yes, among other things, baptism, is symbolic of the washing with the blood of Christ. Repentance and baptism work with our faith to perfect or complete our faith. (James 2: 22) Our faith becomes efficacious when it is perfected by the obedience of faith. (Rom. 1; 5) God bless.

# 44 Sorry, but IMO, I am not jamming water baptism into the passage, I am saying that "water" means "water" and "Spirit" means "Spirit." Is that literal enough for you? Furthermore, a birth is a "coming forth." Still with me? If that is true, then Jesus said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one comes forth from water and comes forth from the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." Now, IMO, and perhaps I am wrong, you cannot come forth from water unless you have first been immersed in water, and you cannot metaphorically come forth from the Spirit (the Spirit is not a physical entity) unless you have been immersed in the Spirit. Now I ask, do we find immersion in water and immersion in the Spirit in the scripture? If you agree that we do, then perhaps this line of reasoning is not completely insane.

You say, "no, Christ said we must be born again, of Spirit. we have all already been born once - of water. we must be born both of flesh, and again, of spirit." IMO you are twisting His words. He is telling us that we need that which baptism, in water, in the name of Christ for the forgiveness of sin, imparts to us and we need that which baptism in the Spirit imparts to us.

IMO baptism in water is a symbol of the cleaning by the blood of Christ, but it is far more than symbol and in some sense both our Lord and Peter say that it does save. (Mark 16: 15, 16; 1 Peter 3: 21) With all due respect, I must accept their words rather than the words of those that contradict them. God bless.

No you are placing water baptism over grace. Water baptism is not required to be saved. Grace received by faith is required to be saved. the faith comes from hearing and hearing the word of God. The Holy Spirit upon the entrance of the word of God brings conviction of sin, righteousness and judgment.

God calls, draws and saves those who come to Christ. We are not saved by the will of man but by the will of God.

John 3:18-20 many turn back and will not come to Christ because they know their deeds are evil.

Philippian jailer Ac 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

Answer not arise and be water baptized. 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Baptized after belief not as a contingent factor in salvation.

Your understanding of Mark 16:15-16 it is not reliable. Again you do not discern between water and Spirit. You also ignore the requirement of belief before anything else.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

That's two baptisms not one.

Scripture says there is one. Chose to be baptized in Christ, Then follow that up by obedience, and baptism in water. The one in Christ saved, the one in water gets you wet. But as a Christian, is a wonderful testimony.

What Jesus said about living water and eternal life in John 4:10,14 is a legitimate reason to believe it's not plain ordinary H20 in John 3:5 and plain ordinary H20 has no power to literally cleanse the heart from sin, but living water reaches the heart (John 7:38).

Works salvationists think of baptism. John 3:5 gives one no reason to assume Jesus was speaking of water baptism, unless one is looking to read into the passage a preconceived idea or theology.

Was this baptism of John for "in order to obtain" the remission of sins or for "in regards to/on the basis of" the remission of sins received upon repentance? In Matthew 3:11, we read - "I baptize you with water for repentance.. Was this baptism for "in order to obtain" repentance or for "in regards to/on the basis of" repentance? Getting baptized in order to obtain repentance makes no sense whatsoever. We first repent and then afterwards get baptized.

You obviously did not thoroughly read these two verses. John 4:1 - Now when Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus was making and baptizing more disciples than John 2 (although Jesus himself did not baptize, but only his disciples).

In Matthew 28:19-20, we have here a command of Jesus to go and make disciples of all nations, and baptize converts. However, it does not say here that baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation. The same command also includes the clause "teaching them to observe all things" that Jesus has commanded.

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on a lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned." If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics. John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis. Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47 - this is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

So the only logical conclusion *when properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture* is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*

The Holy Spirit is given to those who believe the gospel BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17; 15:7-9; Ephesians 1:13).

His death secures that blessing for us when we believe the gospel and are baptized by one Spirit into one body (1 Corinthians 12:13) BEFORE we are water baptized. Romans 3:24 - being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. *What happened to baptism?

John 3:5; 4:10,14; 7:37-39; Titus 3:5; Ephesians 5:26. Born again from above/water/living water/out of our heart flows rivers of living water/washing of regeneration/washing of water by the word. Do you not believe that spiritual washing or purification of the soul is accomplished by the Holy Spirit? Do you really believe this is accomplished by plain ordinary H20? The Holy Spirit is the instrument of both the cleansing and the birth of the divine nature in us. "Water" intensifies and magnifies "Spirit" by means of the many figurative ways God's Holy Spirit is shown working: as a means of God's light-and life-giving Word, of spiritual power, and of cleansing.

John 3:5 - Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

John 4:10 - Jesus answered and said to her, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.

John 4:14 - but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.

John 7:37 - On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, "If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water." 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit..

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

Titus 3:5 - not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit.

John 15:3 - You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.

Ephesians 5:26 - that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word.

1 Peter 1:23 - having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever.

Water is used in the Bible as an emblem of the Word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing.

If you read the word and it seems you went the wrong way in life continue in the word. If it all sounds like parables you can't understand continue in the word. Nothing compares to entering into His rest.

In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis. Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47 - this is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

So the only logical conclusion *when properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture* is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*

We are immersed into the body of Christ by Spirit baptism, not water baptism. 1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. Did you learn anything about the word drink in John 4:10,14; 7:37-38? As long as you refuse to REPENT and BELIEVE the gospel, you will remain spiritually discerned and will continue to confuse water baptism (the picture) with Spirit baptism (the reality) as you continue to remain in your delusional world of UNBELIEF.

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation - having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise.

Amen!....Well done!

The grace of God is conditional...as you say one must believe...

There is a process...first "listen to the message of truth"...then "believe" ..then we are "sealed" by the Holy Spirit in our inner man as the Lord becomes one with our spirit

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,


Acts 15:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

After all these things - we then walk in who we are now in Christ and water baptism is a symbol of us dying ( our old man in Adam ) on the cross with Christ and being raised again with Jesus...so we walk in newness of Life and all that we are in Him as our minds are renewed to the truth of the gospel of the grace of Christ.

It's not that we "have " to be baptized in water in order to be saved..."We get to"...it's a wonderful thing to do and a great blessing when we "know" the purpose of it.

We are saved by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9). Repentance actually precedes saving belief/faith. Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him. Mark 1:15 - Repent and believe the gospel. Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. So repentance precedes faith and baptism follows faith. A work (done out of faith) is not the same as faith itself so your argument does conflict with saved by grace through faith. Regardless of whether you call baptism a work of faith, baptism is still a work and we are not saved by works, but through faith.

In 1 Thessalonians 1:3, notice the words "work of" faith, "labor of" love and "patience of" hope. These are the practical outworking of the Thessalonians' conversion. The "work" the Thessalonians do is a result or consequence of their faith. So too their "labor" flows from love and their "endurance" comes from hope. Work "of" faith does not mean that faith in essence is the work accomplished. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Their work is a result or consequence "of" their faith. The work done is "of" faith or done "out of" faith. Faith was already established at conversion and then the work followed as a result or consequence "of" faith. You must not try to turn work "of" faith into this work "is" faith. You must make a distinction between faith and works that follow as a result of our faith, otherwise you have salvation by works.

Jesus said he who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. *That does not mean that it's baptism that does the saving or that whoever is not baptized will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on a lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned." If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics. John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

In 1 Peter 3:21, Peter said that baptism now saves you, yet when Peter uses this phrase he continues in the same sentence to explain exactly what he means by it. He says that baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not what saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism). We could paraphrase Peter's statement by saying, "Baptism now saves you--not the outward physical ceremony of baptism but the inward spiritual reality which baptism represents." By saying, "not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience - through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, Peter guards against saving power to the physical ceremony itself. So in 1 Peter 3:21; it's not the water itself that literally saves us, but the "appeal-to-God-for-good-conscience". Just as the eight people in the ark were "saved THROUGH water" as they were IN THE ARK. They were not literally saved "by" the water. Hebrews 11:7 is clear on this point (..built an ARK for the SAVING of his household). NOTE: The context reveals that ONLY the righteous (Noah and his family) were DRY and therefore SAFE. In contrast, ONLY THE WICKED IN NOAH'S DAY CAME IN CONTACT WITH THE WATER AND THEY ALL PERISHED.

*See what happens when you only read part of a verse, build doctrine on it and ignore the rest of the verse and the rest of the Bible? You end up with false doctrine.

Paul said not by works of righteousness which we have done (baptism is a work of righteousness) but through the "washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit" which refers to spiritual washing/purification of the soul, accomplished by the Holy Spirit, not by water baptism.

You are the master of irony.

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. There is a difference between the obedient act of choosing to place our faith in Jesus for salvation and becoming saved and obey Jesus "out of" faith afterwards. We are saved through faith in Jesus and not by obedient acts/works which follow after we have been saved through faith. You are still teaching salvation by works.

Hebrews 10:22 in the NASB reads - let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. *Notice the order. Reference to this verse as proving regeneration, or the new birth, by water baptism ignores the point of the contrasting of that sprinkling which affects the heart, removing from it an evil conscience, and that washing of the body with pure water. It is the sprinkling (with the Blood of Christ- Hebrews 9:14; I Peter 1:2) which touches the heart. The washing of pure water affects the body. Paul was careful to distinguish between an outward holiness or circumcision, which was of the flesh (Romans 2:28-29) and an inward holiness, which was of the heart. The true Jew, the true child of Abraham (and therefore the true Christian) has the inward circumcision of the heart, not only the outward, and this is accomplished by the "sprinkling of the blood of Christ" (I Peter 1:2), not by a washing in water in the ordinance of water baptism. Even Peter said - "not the removal of the dirt from the flesh" but the answer of a good conscience toward God. Through the resurrection of Jesus Christ (1 Peter 3:21). The writer of Hebrews shows us that no outward ceremony affects the heart (Hebrews 9:13). He would not, and does not contradict himself here by teaching that the washing of the body in water accomplishes an inward cleansing. The former is inward and spiritual, "of the heart" (Romans 2:28-29), and the latter is outward and physical, or "of the flesh" (Romans 2:28-29). The washing of the body in pure water does not present baptism as the means of the cleansing or purifying of the heart. The sprinkling with the Blood of Christ is, and washing our bodies with water is expressly distinguished from sprinkling with the Blood of Christ. Since water baptism is not the means of purifying the heart from sin, it is not the means of regeneration, and it is not absolutely necessary for salvation.

Amen! Baptism is SYMBOLIC of the washing with the blood of Christ. A symbol is not the reality, but the picture of the reality.

James did not say that "repentance and baptism" work with our faith to perfect or complete our faith. James is discussing Abraham here and notice in James 2:21 that James did not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. No! The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to save his soul, but it proved or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the sense in which Abraham was justified by works-shown to be righteous.

Made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean that Abraham was finally saved many years later based on his works. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.

The scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous because of his faith (Genesis 15:6) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar and fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.


We are saved the moment that we place our faith in Christ for salvation before we accomplish any works. According to your logic, Abraham was still a lost man when he believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness in Genesis 15:6 and was not actually saved until many years later, after he offered up Isaac on the altar and his faith was said to be perfected. Salvation is not by works and faith perfected by works does not mean saved by works and the obedience of faith is not salvation by obedience that follows faith. You are so confused! In regards to Romans 1:5, although Paul can speak of people’s initial response of coming to faith in Christ as an act of obedience, in which he describes it as “obeying the gospel” (Romans 10:16), the purpose of Paul’s apostleship was not merely to bring people to conversion but also to bring about transformed lives that were consistently obedient to God. Notice that Paul said they HAVE (already) received grace and apostleship FOR or UNTO obedience to the faith. Just as in Ephesians 2:10, Paul said that we are created in Christ Jesus FOR or UNTO good works. We are clearly saved FOR good works, NOT by good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). In Romans 1:5, Paul did not say that they did not receive grace and apostleship until they produced “enough” obedience. We have access by FAITH into GRACE… (Romans 5:2) not faith “and obedience.” We are saved through faith first, then “unto” obedience/works.

*You need to REPENT and BELIEVE the gospel and stop teaching salvation by works which is NO SALVATION AT ALL!