Not By Works

You won't get the answer from the armin or the calvinist. It is all subjective.

If you don't do it like me or if you don't have fruit/works that come close to what I,I,I,I,I,I have or have considered TRUE fruit or works. You really are not saved or you will lose salvation.

They have ruled out the MEAT of the Word, that teaches God allows us to freely Glorify Him. And if we don't we are disciplined, could lose ETERNAL rewards and have SHAME at His evaluation of us.

Both camps are about works/fruit for salvation. And have not a clue about service/ works for REWARDS and GLORIFYING Christ.

The Technicolour yawn ? Bowing at the porcelain alter ? Up chuck? Heard of them ?
Blessings
Bill

Mercy4u U are speaking my language!!!

Amen!!!

Is 'having your cake and eating it too' really just a matter of only having actually half a cake leftover?

You are too funny!!!

I also like the two quotes in your signature.. You can use one of mine if you find one, although I am not as insightful as EG or as strong as Calmador

We will WANT TO confess each new SIN we discover in ourselves. And the we will WANT to Obey HIM because He First Loved Us. It is NOT part of SALVATION, but those who are HIS will have that Attitude Change in our lives. I think this verse on the Washing of Regeneration and the Renewal by the Holy Spirit, is where it is Described.

Titus 3:5 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

We can...we shall....we must! Onward soldiers!

[video=youtube;tBW2aQFVzCU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBW2aQFVzCU[/video]

Just commenting to add more comments to this never ending thread

You must not have ever read Matthew 7:19-23 then. We see there that fruitfulness and lawful obedience are not your works of ministry.

These people who Jesus will reject when he comes back had works of service in the name of Christ but did not have fruitful works of obedience to the law (do not commit adultery, do not lie, do not hate, etc.).

Phuman, Go and learn what this means, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice'. Obedience is better than sacrifice.

The sacrifice of your service to God in the church will never replace or make up for your lack of lawful obedience.
I've noticed that for all the people who get unraveled over having to be obedient, they are very active in church ministries, being deacons, leading Bible studies, witnessing, giving, etc. They don't realize that when they use Matthew 7 to bash believers who say you have to be obedient to be saved when Jesus comes back, calling them works salvationists, that they are using the very passage of scripture that will condemn them on the day of Christ's return. They have works of service but are lawless and have no works of obedience.

The problem is people think that since they get saved the moment they believe they don't have to have any works to be saved when Jesus comes back, they're already saved. They don't realize that if they really had been saved the moment they believed they'd have the works of a converted person to show for it. Their own Calvin beliefs about salvation and eternal life say this. But they turn right around and contradict their own beliefs and say you do not have to have works when Jesus comes back to be saved.

They like the eternal life part of the 'P' in Calvin TULIP belief, but they don't like the part in the 'P' of TULIP that says the person who really has eternal life will have works and will persevere to the very end. That makes it so works are required to be saved when Jesus comes back, or else you were never really saved. But they bash you and call you a works salvationist for saying what their own doctrine say.

It's not really about if you had it and lost it, or never had it to begin with. It's about what you are on the day Jesus comes back. If you have no evidence of being a believer on the day Jesus comes back you will be toast. Doesn't matter if you ever believed or not. If your works show that you don't believe on the day Jesus comes back you're toast. Once saved always saved is an unnecessary distraction to that truth.

This is ignorant....the entire truth is based upon context and to say what you said proves a few things about your theology....mainly you have no interest in it, but rather an interest in your own opinion that is contrary

Hmmm.....and we're supposed to be the legalists. Or are you just making a point?

It's not a numerical quantity. It's whether or not you're growing up into an ever increasing obedience to the qualities of the Spirit-2 Peter 1:5-11. The person who claims to be saved but is the same person they were before they got saved and is not growing up more and more into the qualities of the Spirit is not saved, or at the very least, can't know for sure if he's saved or not. He's the one who has to fear the coming Judgment, and should be. He'll have the one talent of kingdom knowledge at the return of Jesus that Jesus left with Him, and because he only has what he knew about the kingdom and did not live it and bring the expected increase to it in his life he will be thrown into the outer darkness where there will be weeping and the gnashing of teeth-Matthew 25:24-30.

Oh, and by the way. I give you credit for coming right out and saying you are hypergrace. At least you're not double minded and trying to be Calvinist and hypergrace at the same time like most of the people in this thread.

I think it's time to call people with Calvinist 'P' beliefs out on this. I would hope pointing out their hypocrisy would draw them back to some sense of sanity and back to their Calvy roots, but I think what's going to happen is hypergrace is going to win the day and become the new belief about eternal security. That's not a good thing, by the way. It is the great falling away that the church will not recover from in this time just before Christ returns. IMO.

It is a b and an s.......unto the pure are all things pure, but unto the defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure.....don't ASSUME........

Romans 7 (NIV) New International Version

The Law and Sin
7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.

13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

And who said a cuss word....BS can mean any thing such as Bull Snot.....people who are sista bertha better than thous just like to assume and think they gotcha....Just like Jesus said...swallow a camel and choke on a gnat.....Most in here would not...yea could not sit under Jesus, Paul or John the Baptist....they would be too easily offended

Amen......would have no problem with that at all....anytime bro