Oh goody another OSAS thread!

Wow!
Anyone who really believes this is just so ignorant of the Gospel, yet is so sure of themselves...
Hard to know how to respond to this apart from just saying, "You are wrong!"

Violates clear Scripture like this "And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them." Eph 2:1-10

Isaiah 43:25 - I, [even] I, [am] he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins

OneFaith said:

We must obey God, meaning our salvation depends on it.

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We must obey God by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16; 10:16). Our salvation depends on that. There is a difference between obeying God in order to become saved (John 6:40) and obeying God after we have been saved through faith/by choosing to believe the gospel.

Our obedience does not earn it, but God chooses to give it to those who obey.

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Obeying God by choosing to believe the gospel does not earn salvation. We are simply accepting the free gift. Multiple acts of obedience/works which follow choosing to believe the gospel would earn it if we were saved by works.

You agree, do you not, that wide is the gate that leads to hell and most people enter through it, correct? So you agree that there is a difference between saved people and unsaved people, right?

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Absolutely. Most people refuse to place their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation.

What is that difference? That difference is obedience.

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Jesus explained the difference. John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

You say "No, it is faith." But faith is obedience (one of the things to obey). Therefore, by saying you must have faith you yourself are saying you must obey.

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Faith is believing and obedience which follows is works. Faith/believing is clearly not a work that merits salvation. Through faith/believing, we are completely trusting in "Another's work," (Christ's finished work of redemption - (Romans 3:24-26).

If multiple acts of obedience/works which follow saving faith in Christ were the basis or means by which we received eternal life, then that would add merit on our part for receiving salvation because then we would be saved through faith based on the merits of Christ's finished work of redemption "plus our works." So faith is not just another work in a series of works in a quest to receive salvation by works.

Then you haven't been paying attention.

You are literally saying you have not ever in five years known anyone here who has been a believer in hyper/freegrace doctrine.

As you have just proven.

Hey, Budman.......are you paying attention?



You do fine with this passage until you get to the 'sanctified' part in verse 29.

The chapter literally defines 'sanctified' as saved people in vs. 10 and 14, but all of a sudden once saved always saved says it doesn't really mean that in vs. 26. That creative redefining is done with the intent of stripping the passage of it's very obvious and plain NOT once saved always saved meaning. Even once saved always saved realizes something has to be done to it so it doesn't teach non-once saved always saved.

(Remember, this is a thread about why people are so adamant about this 'once saved always saved' thing instead of what really counts in the Christian faith)

It sounds like you can't make up your mind what you believe.

The reference to "the blood of the covenant that sanctified him" in verse 29 appears to be referring to a Christian, but this overlooks the fact that the word translated "sanctified" (which is the verb form of the adjective "holy") which means "set apart," and doesn't necessarily refer to salvation.

*In 1 Corinthians 7:14, Paul uses it to specifically refer to non-Christians who are "sanctified" or "set apart" by their believing spouse. (And by this Paul does not mean that they are saved). A non-Christian can be "set apart" from other non-Christians without experiencing salvation as Paul clearly explained. So the word "sanctified" means to be "set apart."

If the word "sanctified" simply meant “saved,” then you would have to say that the Sabbath was saved (Genesis 2:3), the tabernacle was saved (Exodus 29:43), the Lord was saved (Leviticus 10:3), the Father saved the Son (John 10:36) which does not line up with scripture.

In verse 39, the writer of Hebrews sets up the CONTRAST that makes it clear to me that he was referring to unbelievers, not saved people: But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.

So after considering the context, it seems most likely that "he was sanctified" should be understood in the sense of someone who had been "set apart" or identified as an active participant in the Hebrew Christian community of believers, but who has renounced his identification with other believers, by rejecting the "knowledge of the truth" that he had received, and trampling under foot the work and the person of Christ himself. This gives evidence that his identification with the Hebrew Christian community was merely superficial (nominal Christian) and that he was not a genuine believer.

The reference, Hebrews 10:29, is speaking of Christ not persons.

"Son of God"..."by which he was sanctified." The he refers to Christ, or technically "Son of God" contextually.

Depends on what YOUR definition of "HyperGrace" is.

If it means ALL of my sins are forgiven, for ALL of time, paid for by Jesus Christ, with me doing NOTHING to maintain becoming a born again child of God through faith in His Son, ​THEN PENCIL ME IN AS A HYPERGRACER!

Amen ... One sacrifice to pay the debt in full.

This is what it means. I posted this earlier in this thread:


There have been some here at cc who openly admit to believing this very doctrine. I don't know how you could have missed that. But as I point out, it has crept into the church unawares. Even right under the nose of hardcore Calvinists who will 'like' their posts seeming not to realize it is diametrically opposed to their doctrine.

Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Speaking of those who have heard and rejected the grace of God. Speaking of those who count self righteousness equal or superior to the righteousness of Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

This is a non-issue: Here's why.

Matthew 7:17-20 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

17 So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.18 A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 So then, you will [a]know them by their fruits.


The problem is YOU want to define what is a good fruit, and how it manifests itself.

I can know for 100% certain that my sons are my sons by testing their DNA. We have Christs DNA if we are born again.

You need to ask the right question. The question is NOT "Can you lose your salvation". The ONLY question that matters is, "Are you born again?"

IMO you're just trying to confuse the issue for some reason. HG is defined by some very specific doctrinal stances, some of which I doubt that you agree with.

I'm not confusing anything. Defining what it means is important. If it means what I posted then I'm a hypergracer. If people are throwing in the prosperity gospel on top of that, then I'm not a hypergracer.