Oh goody another OSAS thread!

LOL I guess you will need to say those things that the bible clearly supports so you can let God do the arguing.

Remember that most folks are Christians as an audit student and not a full credit student. Makes a difference when you live like you believe what you claim to believe.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

There is no stability without truth.
You seem to suggest that new believers should be not be taught what is truth and what is a false teaching.

Trouble is, your truth is someone else's false teaching - complete with scriptures. And before you say it, they think you're twisting things just as much as you think they are.

Not to worry. Those who twist the scriptures will be held accountable by God. Don't be deceived those who mock God will be judged.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Point one... people even argue with God. I don't think He gets any better reception than we do.

Point 2... When you live like you believe what you claim to believe ... When the Bible says 'do this and you'll see that' ... and you take it at it's word, doing this and seeing that as a result, people STILL argue. Just mention 'gifts', and give a personal account of a gift in action, and you'll be called a liar, a false teacher, a heretic, a 'magic wand waiver', even tho you did what the Bible said to do and got the result the Bible says you'll get.

But, I am right and they are wrong.
Seriously though, I can not let what I believe is a false teaching go unchallenged.
It is up to the new believer to pray and study for them self.
You need to give those new believers more credit for finding the truth.

I've seen new believers walk away over things just like this. Again, the premise is if old timers can't agree after a cumulative decades and centuries of debate, what chance does a newby have? Especially when their study leads them to one conclusion, which is then railed by others?

The problem is, this is an obsession for many people. And obsessions rarely if ever lead to the truth.

Well, according to some on this forum, those new believers who walked away, lost or gave back their salvation.
Do you believe that?

I will not apologize for be obsessed with teaching the truth.

Jesus warned not to offend the little ones. Some folks are just not going to receive sound doctrine. Wielding power and authority is too enticing to those who have no power or authority from God.

Jesus cares for the little ones. God will sort out those who are tares pretending to be wheat.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Yes. I do believe that one can turn away from their salvation, ONLY by by ceasing to believe and confessing that unbelief.

No that does not make my Jesus weak. I've seen Him stir the seas and work miracles that are unimaginable. Something a weak god could never do.

Nor does that mean I think I have to work to secure my salvation.

Nor does that mean I believe works will exclude you from salvation. No amount of works will exclude you, just like no amount of works will get you in.

Just like I don't believe OSASers are preaching a free-to-sin environment. That too is a complete fallacy.

And when He does, a whole lot of people are going to be surprised find out which side they are actually on.

If you can TURN AWAY FROM SALVATION, give it back, is that not taking your salvation out of the hands of Jesus and putting your salvation in your hands? Is that not making your power more than Jesus?
If salvation is not totally in the power of Jesus, there is no salvation.

No, it is not. It is according to His plan that people love Him out of choice, not force.

You have to go back to the very beginning. The thing about God's sovereign will is that He generally chooses not to enforce it Himself. God created creation, and He was in charge of it. God then created man, and yielded His sovereignty to give man authority over creation. You, Adam, are the authority. So Adam then gives that away to satan. God could have, in His sovereign power, taken it all back. But then that would put Him in charge again, and that wasn't what He wanted. His intent/will was for man to have authority.

So to restore what God intended/willed meant a man had to take authority back from satan. But what man could do such a thing? Well, only God, coming to us as a man. So the Christ comes and indeed takes back authority. But He has not returned to enforce it. Power in the heavenlies is His, but satan still runs the terra firma. That's where our 'free will' comes in. It's God's sovereign will that we participate with Him in the enforcement of His authority over creation.

I liken it as to a Sheriff. The sheriff holds the authority, but he doesn't patrol the streets chasing down perps. He has Deputies who enforce his authority for him. But the Deputies actually have no authority of their own. Christ is our sheriff, we are his deputies, charged to enforce His Will in a land run by satan until He returns.

God yields his will to give us the authority to participate in bringing His Will to bear in this world.

Including the authority to accept or refuse salvation.


But that's not going to change your mind, so that's all I'm going to say about it.

R....,

Don't take someone disagreeing with you ...personally. Just insure that scripture is on your side.

Maybe we can save a newbie from getting caught up in this new age religion stuff.

I'm fine with someone having an opposing opinion. That's life not 'personal'

Calling me and my ideas stupid, ignorant, et al - not so much.

A choice coming from the imaginations of their own hearts as in "no faith" or a choice that comes from God working in us as his first works... our first love as His work of faith ? Seeing without His faith working in us no man could believe and therefore seek after Him.

Is it the work of God by which we can believe Him not seen?

The "it" below represents the faith of Christ, the faith of God

As "it" is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God Romans 3