Oh goody another OSAS thread!
- Thread starter RickyZ
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An unbeliever was never saved.
A person can believe jesus lived, he died in a cross, even have knowledge he rose from the dead, and as such, they have knowledge of the lord, it does not mean the KNOW JESUS on a personal level, like his children do, as james said, even domons believe (know) yet tremble
Knowledge is worthless apart from faith,
A person can believe jesus lived, he died in a cross, even have knowledge he rose from the dead, and as such, they have knowledge of the lord, it does not mean the KNOW JESUS on a personal level, like his children do, as james said, even domons believe (know) yet tremble
Knowledge is worthless apart from faith,
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That's right. They TASTED the heavenly gift. They did NOT imbibe, or swallow and ingest the heavenly gift. I can swill and taste wine all day long, but if I don't ingest it and spit it out, I will NEVER get the effects of that wine. I will not get inebriated. The same as with the Holy Spirit. I can "taste" His goodness, but if I don't receive Him, I will NEVER be filled and sealed with His Presence and sanctifying work.
I know plenty of people that have the knowledge of Jesus Christ. They have been told about Him or read Scripture about Him themselves. They have the knowledge that He is the Son of God, but they either reject that knowledge, and don't believe in their heart who He is and what He has done, OR they believe who He is, but refuse to confess with their mouths, and instead reject Him that way. These people would be better off if they NEVER had the KNOWLEDGE of who Jesus is and what He has done to begin with!
I know plenty of people that have the knowledge of Jesus Christ. They have been told about Him or read Scripture about Him themselves. They have the knowledge that He is the Son of God, but they either reject that knowledge, and don't believe in their heart who He is and what He has done, OR they believe who He is, but refuse to confess with their mouths, and instead reject Him that way. These people would be better off if they NEVER had the KNOWLEDGE of who Jesus is and what He has done to begin with!
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Can show me a scripture of anyone who was called self righteous legalist for obeying Jesus Christ?
Christ Jesus is our source of righteousness, and dwells within us, to empower and inspire us to practice righteousness.
Obeying Him as He leads us, is to practice righteousness, in which we do good and love our neighbor.
However there are those who still are lead to practice the works of the flesh, because they are taught the false doctrine of OSAS, and do not fear the Lord, and they live to gratify the desire of the flesh.
Paul warned us -
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. Romans 6:12-13
- do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it
He had just warned them in this same letter, from chapter 2, about obeying unrighteousness.
God who “will render to each one according to his deeds": 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8
God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
- eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
- but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath
Either we as born again believers, who are empowered by the Spirit, will live according to the flesh by fulfilling the unrighteous, sinful desires of sin, or we will live according to the Spirit, and obey the righteous desires coming from Him.
Each Christian has a choice.
7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. Galatians 6:7-8
- he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.
JPT
Yes, I agree it's not God's will that any should perish, but all come to repentance.
Here are those who will come forth in the resurrection of life -
- those who have done good, to the resurrection of life
28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29
JPT
Taste here in the Greek, means to experience.
If you read a little further, the writer illustrates what he means, so we don't have to make up our own scenario.
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. Hebrews 6:4-6
- if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance,
This scripture is referring to people who have indeed repented and received the Holy Spirit, and then later they have departed from Him to go back to Judaism, because of persecution from unbelieving Jews.
That is the context
He goes to illustrate for us the outcome of these people.
Read what the scripture so plainly says - the earth which drinks in the rain
No swilling here, drinking in the Holy Spirit!
- whose end is to be burned.
7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.
Hebrews 6:7-8
Same thing Jesus taught, about those who are in Him, who receive the liofe of His Spirit into them as they are joined to Him and one with Him, then later are removed and cast into the fire and burned.
Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; John 15:2
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6
JPT
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By the fruit you produce.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Galatians 5:22-25
To be honest, it looks like you trying to find an excuse to live your life gratifying the sinful passions of your flesh, but still be assured you will have eternal life, when you stand before Christ on the Day of Judgement, when He judges each of us according to our deeds.
If you "slip up", confess your sin to Him and ask Him to forgive you, and He will.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9
JPT
You will need to take it up with the One who said this.
- those who have done good, to the resurrection of life
28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29
JPT
No one by-passes the judgement seat of Christ, as we all will be judged according to our deeds.
- those who have done good, to the resurrection of life
To be honest, it looks like you trying to find an excuse to live your life gratifying the sinful passions of your flesh, but still be assured you will have eternal life, when you stand before Christ on the Day of Judgement, when He judges each of us according to our deeds.
If you "slip up", confess your sin to Him and ask Him to forgive you, and He will.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9
JPT