Oh goody another OSAS thread!
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Someone who has escaped the corruption of the world is saved. The conversation was about the text below.
2 Peter 2:20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.
2 Peter 2:20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.
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Nope. I reject the knowledge of YOUR truth.
I have already given you an example of Judas who departed from the living God.
Kinda just going in circles with you. I wish you would accept that being a born again child of God means HE will never leave nor forsake you, and HE is the one who keeps you secure. But carry on if you will in believing God will cast His children into hell if they fail in some way.
I have already given you an example of Judas who departed from the living God.
Kinda just going in circles with you. I wish you would accept that being a born again child of God means HE will never leave nor forsake you, and HE is the one who keeps you secure. But carry on if you will in believing God will cast His children into hell if they fail in some way.
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Really.
Please share the post number where someone explains how a person who is in Christ, can depart from Him, yet somehow was never “in Him”.
Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrew 3:12-14
JPT
Exactly Judas was a disciple for 3 years then was promoted to an Apostle, and was empowered and sent out to preach the gospel to the lost, and heal the sick, raise the dead, and cast out devils, all being signs of those who believe, then he became a traitor.
And when He had called His twelve disciples to Him, He gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. 2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Cananite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed Him.
5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give. 9 Provide neither gold nor silver nor copper in your money belts, 10 nor bag for yourjourney, nor two tunics, nor sandals, nor staffs; for a worker is worthy of his food. Matthew 10:1-10
Judas was a believer and Apostle, then fell away by transgression.
JPT
And when He had called His twelve disciples to Him, He gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. 2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Cananite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed Him.
5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give. 9 Provide neither gold nor silver nor copper in your money belts, 10 nor bag for yourjourney, nor two tunics, nor sandals, nor staffs; for a worker is worthy of his food. Matthew 10:1-10
Judas was a believer and Apostle, then fell away by transgression.
JPT
N
well now youre conflating two points
being in Christ and having knowledge of him
hahaha
thats a strawman
not very subtle either
anyways heres two posts about the original point
how knowledge of Him does not = being in Him
(i made more like this and many of my brothers in Christ also explained this)
being in Christ and having knowledge of him
hahaha
thats a strawman
not very subtle either
anyways heres two posts about the original point
how knowledge of Him does not = being in Him
(i made more like this and many of my brothers in Christ also explained this)
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Of course Jesus died. I don't see how what Jesus experienced is synonymous to what apostates experience. John SPECIFICALLY tells us that these guys "experience" did NOT mean they were ever saved. Because if they WERE saved, although possibly wandering away for a time, they would have REMAINED saved.
I've already agreed they experienced the Holy Spirit. Experiencing Him is far different then being born again and sealed by Him. I'm curious. What exactly do you think "sealed" means?
I've also given the quintessential example of Judas, who absolutely experienced the Holy Spirit, yet was never saved.
I've already agreed they experienced the Holy Spirit. Experiencing Him is far different then being born again and sealed by Him. I'm curious. What exactly do you think "sealed" means?
I've also given the quintessential example of Judas, who absolutely experienced the Holy Spirit, yet was never saved.
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Where is the word “knowledge” in this scripture?
- lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God
12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14
JPT
Here are some other thoughts, from another thread, by much more learned people in Greek than me on Hebrews 6. I don't remember who this needs to be attributed to but this is the 1st:
"Was It Impossible Now to Ever Renew Them Again to Repentance in Order to Spiritually Grow?To answer this pertinent question it is helpful to closely observe the participial phrase: “Since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.” The phrase “since they crucify again” is just one word in the Greek text anastauroō. It is a present active temporal [point in time] participle which is contemporaneous in time to the action of the main verb and that carries the idea of while doing, especially when it is related to the main verb. This could then be translated, “If they fall away, [it is impossible] to renew them again to repentance, while they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.” The writer of Hebrews is not shutting the door forever upon these believers experiencing spiritual growth again. But he is making it clear that this spiritual renewal will not occur while at the same time they persist in going back to the defunct Temple and its needless sacrifices."
The second is by CCmember MarcR. A man who I believe has shown here impeccable Integrity and love of Christ:
Heb 6:4-6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
The words 'For it is' are not in the Greek text. they were added by the translators to make the English less choppy.
The word (αδυνατον) impossible is the first word in the sentence. As I understand it, the word impossible applies to the entire scenario in verses 4-6 making the entire scenario hypothetical.
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
KJV
If they shall fall away There is no if in the Greek και παραπεσοντας means and even so NOT if
but the hypothetical creates a quasi subjunctive so we must read [but if it were possible; it would then be impossible] to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
MarcR
"Was It Impossible Now to Ever Renew Them Again to Repentance in Order to Spiritually Grow?To answer this pertinent question it is helpful to closely observe the participial phrase: “Since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.” The phrase “since they crucify again” is just one word in the Greek text anastauroō. It is a present active temporal [point in time] participle which is contemporaneous in time to the action of the main verb and that carries the idea of while doing, especially when it is related to the main verb. This could then be translated, “If they fall away, [it is impossible] to renew them again to repentance, while they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.” The writer of Hebrews is not shutting the door forever upon these believers experiencing spiritual growth again. But he is making it clear that this spiritual renewal will not occur while at the same time they persist in going back to the defunct Temple and its needless sacrifices."
The second is by CCmember MarcR. A man who I believe has shown here impeccable Integrity and love of Christ:
Heb 6:4-6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
The words 'For it is' are not in the Greek text. they were added by the translators to make the English less choppy.
The word (αδυνατον) impossible is the first word in the sentence. As I understand it, the word impossible applies to the entire scenario in verses 4-6 making the entire scenario hypothetical.
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
KJV
If they shall fall away There is no if in the Greek και παραπεσοντας means and even so NOT if
but the hypothetical creates a quasi subjunctive so we must read [but if it were possible; it would then be impossible] to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
MarcR
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E
So wait, judas who was the devil and who stole from jesus for three years was an apostle?
Matt 77: 22
Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
I am sure Judas, in desperation, will be one of these many, who Jesus said he NEVER KNEW because they were never saved
Matt 77: 22
Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
I am sure Judas, in desperation, will be one of these many, who Jesus said he NEVER KNEW because they were never saved