The cultic origins of Annihilationism

We are spiritual beings, in my opinion based on what I read, only after we are given Gods' Spirit.

Lol! Except that I don't suspect what I supposed there!
I put it there as a supposition in response to a supposition. A guess in response to a guess. A perhaps in response to a perhaps.

1 Corinthians 2:11 King James Version (KJV)
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

So, your answer is: another game of tennis?
You don't like puzzles?

There is no puzzle. You are a spirit within a body. I don't see the issue.

Luke 8:49-55 King James Version (KJV)
49 While he yet spake, there cometh one from the ruler of the synagogue's house, saying to him, Thy daughter is dead; trouble not the Master.

50 But when Jesus heard it, he answered him, saying, Fear not: believe only, and she shall be made whole.

51 And when he came into the house, he suffered no man to go in, save Peter, and James, and John, and the father and the mother of the maiden.

52 And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth.

53 And they laughed him to scorn, knowing that she was dead.

54 And he put them all out, and took her by the hand, and called, saying, Maid, arise.

55 And her spirit came again, and she arose straightway: and he commanded to give her meat.

Gosh, I have a great idea but I can't do it right now, gotta go work some.

I'm going to (when I come back) go through the thread from the beginning and put each verse we've come up with on a card. Then I'm going to look at those puzzle pieces and see if I can fit them together into some semblance of sense. Lightbearer has the supposedly BEST greek source, so if looking up all the different words: hell, lake of fire, outer darkness, etc., just becomes confusing with my puny Strongs Exhaustive, I'll pass the mess to him and go have an icecream cone.

It will all have to wait though. sigh.

Yes, I know you don't see the issue. The verses in tension to don't bother you in the least. They bother me.

Haha ben! Indifference to my post? Nah, that's not you. At ALL!
Here's my reaction to most things:

It does not mean she was alive after she died.

People are integrated beings. Take away the life (soul/spirit) and the -person- is dead, not just the body. People without soul/spirit are dead people.

I'm sorry to hear that? lol Why are you bothered? I am simply showing you verses that unequivocally show you are a spirit in a body. Many verses seem to suggest that once dead you are "asleep." Its weird, in Revelations there are saints that were killed and it mentions them asking how much longer until justice is served, basically.

Revelation 6:9-11 King James Version (KJV)
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Thats not what scripture says. As the body is dead without the spirit so is faith without works dead.

It does not say that the spirit without the body is alive.

Jesus used these discriptive terms about hell's eternal state for man:

And notice here the many references to hell being an eternal state:

• everlasting fire Matt 18:8
• everlasting punishment Matt 25:26
• eternal condemnation Mark 3:29
• the fire that shall never be quenched Mark 9:43-48
• their worm does not die " "
• unquenchable fire " "

and other Gospels were Jesus is speaking about hell and man going there.

Luke 12:5
John 5:29
John 15:6

satan seems to be an eternal being? it does not specifically say about all other that have a part in the "lake of Fire" are tortured forever?

The scriptures were given to you. The context of the lake of fire is eternal, I looked up the word forever in the Greek and it means forever. In addition, you make a big presumption when you said :


“And, it doesn't fit with humans, who don't have eternity in them (except by the new birth),”



There is life and there is eternal which speaks of the reward of the Righteous. The unrighteous have eternal but not in the context of reward from God.

If there is no eternity for humans who are not saved then why did they have to be raised from the dead to be judged ? The Great White Throne Judgment is very clear who is there.

Rev 20:11-15 reads like this :



11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

The Bible is very clear , Jesus was very clear .
Hell is an enternal place

No, I didn't mean that YOU bother me. You are a help a lot of the time, even though we don't agree on almost everything there is.

It bothers me to see two sides pit verses against each other and to see the inconsistencies on both sides and to watch a rerun of the same show over and over with neither side addressing their own inconsistencies.

I think that pennEd is the only one in here with the capability (at present, not forever!) of tracking with me even if he doesn't agree with me. That's not to say anyone is stupid. It's just to say that I think penned, at present, is the only one who can see the inconsistencies on BOTH sides. I could be wrong on that, but ?I think he sees it.

The first three you list: everlasting fire, everlasting punishment, eternal condemnation - honestly, it is possible that they could mean irreversible, forever irreversible and so eternal and everlasting. If our courts put a man to death, that is a punishment that, after he is dead, stands, everlasting and not capable of ever being reversed by any man. Same sort of idea/concept. And so the word eternal meaning forever is not at all in question. The question is whether men will live forever if they don't have Gods' Spirit.

The body is dead without the Spirit sounds a lot like: let the dead bury their own dead.

NO the context with the full chapter do not support that idea.

If there were eternal life for humans that is in themselves, why would God need to raise ANY of them from the dead? They would already be alive and so wouldn't NEED to be raised from the dead.