The Heresy of Annihilationism

The word hell can be traced back only so far as the anglo-saxon word "helle" or "helan"
and it's definition is that of a "hidden place"

There are four words for hell and the translators wrongly used hell each and every
occasion that the words - Hades, Gehenna, Sheol, and Tartarus, were used in the bible.

Gehenna, was the garbage dump just outside of Jerusalem,
where refuse was burned continually.

Hades, is a greek word for hidden place

Sheol, is a Hebrew word used for the grave

Tartarus, was used by Homer, when describing the subterranean prisons
where the "gods" were imprisoned.

use a bible concordance to find in verses what originally word used, one definition.

So, by combining all these things together, the translators painted a picture
of a subterranean place where fires burned and was unseen by those living
upon the surface of the earth.

I think there is disconnect from pre- fallen man and fallen man where physical death happens due to sin entering into man. And the triune of man as God created him spirit , soul, and body. after fallen body soul and spirit . flesh became ruler and battling the spirit of man why? because those who worship God must do so in spirit and truth. That is why we need Jesus to make right this law of death.

I actually think whatev, the new guy, has said something wise for us. When dealing with a topic like this, it's best to say what you think, give the verses have led you to what you think, and try to stay away from thinking any of us has it all completely right.

to be far that would be the right way to do it how ever, go back and look at the response to the first person who was disagreeable

Okay, I'll go another round.

New Living Translation
"For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.

So then, in your view, the perish here has only to do with the body. And the eternal life has only to do with the body.
The soul already has eternal life, even before the receiving of the Holy Spirit.

So, who are you arguing with? People who don't believe in hell? People who don't believe it is torment? People who have different definitions of "eternal?"

I have seen at least one person say there is no hell. Again, I think that is his problem, because that shows the tenacity to create a different god. Argue! That one is worth arguing, if he will listen. But everyone else you seem to be arguing believe in hell, just that they see it differently than you do.

I've been a Christian for a long time. Before that I was Catholic, so made the assumption it's the lake of fire because that's what I was taught as a youngster. I never took time to rethink that like I had to rethink purgatory. (Erase purgatory is more like it.) I still haven't, but about half a year ago I read some people don't think fire is involved in Hell. That surprised me, but I still haven't bothered studying it because following the Lord has never been about avoiding Hell for me.

I'm interested in hearing what people think, but not if the only thing going on is arguing, instead of coming together and talking, like we're all different people with different thoughts, and sometimes we'll agree, and sometimes we won't.

I agree with you. There has to be a Hell, or Jesus lied. But don't confuse that with the Hell we imagine after reading his words has to be the only Hell everyone imagines.

Then I'm more confused. I thought it was about if hell existed. Which page started the immortal question? (I did read the first three pages. I must have comprehension problems.)

Well, no actually. One man keeps saying some other men don't believe hell exists, but it's not true. They do believe hell exists.

But he thinks that since they believe men only gain immortality in the new birth, and that therefore they will be annihilated in the lake of fire, that they therefore think hell doesn't exist.

That is not true. No part of man is immortal. Matt 10:28 proves it.

People are confused because that think that
1) the soul is immortal. It isn't.
2) that when a person dies, only his body dies, but his soul/spirit continues to live. It doesn't.

People are integrated beings of body and soul (or spirit).

When a PERSON dies, the PERSON is dead.

A man is body and soul.
Take away the soul, the PERSON dies.
Take away the body, the PERSON dies.

Ecclesiastes states that when a person dies, he knows nothing. He cannot work, he has no emotion, he cannot praise God. He is dead. It does not say that the person's body knows nothing, that the person's body has no emotion or cannot praise God. Those things are true of the PERSON.

In the future, at the resurrections, dead PEOPLE will be raised from the dead. It's not about the person's spirit being reunited with his new body.

Everyone who has died is STILL DEAD, the ONLY exception is Jesus Christ. He is the ONLY person in heaven (John 3:13).

I hope this helps (but I know it won't..)

Either eternal life or eternal condemnation. With Christ eternal life. Without Christ eternal condemnation.

Simple as I can make it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Embarrassed. I've been reading the title of the other post incorrectly until about two minutes ago. I thought the second word was "Celtic," "not "Cultic," and immediately thought I don't care what the Irish believed long ago.

And since that is now 38 pages long, I don't feel like reading it.

Well if Christ is in heaven and He certainly is then we will be with Him. Absent from the body present with the Lord.

So here again you are not correct.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Yes, we will.

Being absent from the body is not referring to death. It is referring to the return of Christ.

Death is an enemy, not the "doorway to Jesus", or the "gateway to the afterlife".

Ecclesiastes 12:6-7

6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher
be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern (flesh body dies).

7 Then shall the dust (flesh body) return to the earth as it was:
and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

2 Corinthians 5:8
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body,
and to be present with the Lord.

Now let's examine absent from the body...

Many people quote this verse out of context to prove immediate judgment and reward
or punishment. This is not the meaning Paul intended. This statement is a colloquialism
that Paul used. Let's see this...

1Co 5:3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already,
as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,

Where was Paul? In spirit present in heaven? Nope, he was not at Corinth but he was
on the earth as a human being in the flesh.

Col 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and
beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.

This verse clarifies what he meant by being absent from the body (the church)
but present in spirit.

His colloquialism is separated from us by nearly 2000 years. Do we use any colloquialisms
today that would be difficult for those 2000 years ago to understand. Think about it.

Just a note as to why Christ spoke in parables...

Mat 13:13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see,
and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.

Mat 13:14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:
'HEARING YOU WILL HEAR AND SHALL NOT UNDERSTAND,
AND SEEING YOU WILL SEE AND NOT PERCEIVE;


Christ spoke in parables to hide the meanings from those who are not called
and had this particular miracle occur in their lives...

Luk 24:45 And He opened their understanding,
that they might comprehend the Scriptures.

This takes special intervention and is not a wholesale act.
It is only done for those whom the Father calls in this age...

Joh 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him;
and I will raise him up at the last day. And He said, "Therefore I have said to
you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."

Not all are called in this age. God has a 7000 year plan to save all mankind...

2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day
is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness,
but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should
come to repentance.

Now this is not universal salvation, it plainly says God is not WILLING. If one does
choose, in full knowledge of the truth, to reject God, then there is an end for them...


Rev 20:13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up
the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.
Rev 20:14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.


Mal 4:1 "For behold, the day is coming, Burning like an oven, And all the proud, yes,
all who do wickedly will be stubble. And the day which is coming shall burn them up,"
Says the LORD of hosts, "That will leave them neither root nor branch.

Mal 4:2 But to you who fear My name The Sun of Righteousness shall arise With
healing in His wings; And you shall go out And grow fat like stall-fed calves.


Mal 4:3 You shall trample the wicked, For they shall be ashes under the soles of
your feet On the day that I do this," Says the LORD of hosts.

Mat 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul.
But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Unfortunately, there are those who will choose to reject God's mercy
and salvation but it will be the few, not the many.

There end result is not endless torment in an everburning fire, God simply puts them
out of existence so they are not miserable and they do not make those around them miserable.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son,
that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Word here for perish is...

a?p?´???µ?
apollumi
ap-ol'-loo-mee
From G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully (reflexively to perish, or lose),
literally or figuratively: - destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.

Not life in hell, but death...

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death;
but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

God is merciful to even those who refuse, He does not allow them to suffer
for eternity, He simply puts them out of existence.

You are exactly right, Roger.

The question is: What is eternal condemnation?

Is it eternal life (albeit in torments)?
Is it permanent death?

I am convinced from the Bible that it is permanent death.

Oh m
ahhh oh my gosh too funny oh hahaha!

I do understand the other view. I do understand what your view is. It's not the same view as mine, but I understand it.
And discussing this with you guys has really, really helped me a lot. OF course I would prefer to not be talked meanly to, but nevertheless, I've been greatly helped.

It hasn't changed my mind that eternal life is found only in the Son and that anyone without the Son does not have eternal life, but it has forced me to look more deeply into what I believe and has shown me errors on BOTH sides of the debate.

The first time the word soul is used in KJV Bibles is Gen. 2:7 where man "became a living soul." Here it is:


nephesh

neh'-fesh

From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): - any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead (-ly), desire, X [dis-] contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart (-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortality, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.

This is the same word translated creature in Gen. 1:21 and thereafter. So we can conclude the soul is nothing more than the breath of life.

There is nothing immortal about man's makeup. We are dust and we will return to dust unless we take ahold of God's promise for immortality. We can call ourselves saved but we still need God to keep His promise of a resurrection to immortality.

Where the fire is not quenched and the worm dieth not. That is just a memorial, God is not going to make an immortal maggot, get real folks.

Now for Rev. 20:10 "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

The last "are" in that sentence was added by translators for ease of reading. You could read "where the beast and false profit were cast." What happens when you toss a live person into fire, they die! Even Satan will not be tormented forever.

Eze. 28:14: "Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire." This establishes identity.

Eze. 28:18: "Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee."

Eze. 28:19: "All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more." This tells of the fate of Satan. Which is also the fate of those that reject the Holy Spirit anointing by the end of the judgement period.

I disagree Jesus said it was eternal and torment forever, The missing of verse are what I was talking about . Hell is the context and What Jesus said about hell is authoritative .

Do criminals experience condemnation after their execution? Their names are for the most part forgotten.