Christian holidays vs Biblical holidays

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
S

Studyman

Senior Member
#441
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
#441
gb9 said:
how is it hate and scorn that I simply ask you to provide a source that backs up what you say?? I posted I direct quote from you above, asked you to provide a source based on what you said. how is that hate and scorn??

you said that the translation was corrupted. well, since you have the proper translations ( you say you do ), and the Bible was not written in English, deductive reasoning says there must be uncorrupted translations . so, source where they.

if you do not do so, then you are simply bearing witness of your self, which Jesus said is not true. the Law says out of the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses a matter will be settled.


so, if you want to call being simply asked, backed by Scripture, to give a source of what YOU SAY , hate and scorn, well, o.k., but i do not see how......
Click to expand...
"keep lying, keep being deceptive, keep spitting on the Word. you expose yourself more and more."

This looks like hatred and scorn, and not simply asking a question.

The Scriptures say the Priests corrupted the teaching of God. I posted one such scripture that confirms this belief. In fact, it is the scriptures that teach me that the Priests corrupted God's Words., there are many, many more. I really don't understand what you want from me, other than to ridicule and insult.
 
G

gb9

Senior Member
#442
Jan 18, 2011
12,388
6,732
113
#442
Studyman said:
"keep lying, keep being deceptive, keep spitting on the Word. you expose yourself more and more."

This looks like hatred and scorn, and not simply asking a question.

The Scriptures say the Priests corrupted the teaching of God. I posted one such scripture that confirms this belief. In fact, it is the scriptures that teach me that the Priests corrupted God's Words., there are many, many more. I really don't understand what you want from me, other than to ridicule and insult.
Click to expand...
right the Pharisees corrupted the Torah. we know that. but, what I am saying is this- the greek word for law is used 190 or so times in the N.T. the same word. I say that that means one law. you say the Law is in multiple parts. the language does not say this.

the Pharisees had nothing to do with the greek language. so, if there are multiple parts of the Law , as you say, then provide a translation that says so.

we both know and agree what the Talmud says about Jesus. why? because we both read it. all I am asking for is the same for Scripture.
 
S

Studyman

Senior Member
#443
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
#443
gb9 said:
right the Pharisees corrupted the Torah. we know that. but, what I am saying is this- the greek word for law is used 190 or so times in the N.T. the same word. I say that that means one law. you say the Law is in multiple parts. the language does not say this.

the Pharisees had nothing to do with the greek language. so, if there are multiple parts of the Law , as you say, then provide a translation that says so.

we both know and agree what the Talmud says about Jesus. why? because we both read it. all I am asking for is the same for Scripture.
Click to expand...
Rom. 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works?(Kill a goat, sprinkle it's Blood) Nay: but by the law of faith. (Love God, Love your Neighbor)

Matt. 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
 
G

gb9

Senior Member
#444
Jan 18, 2011
12,388
6,732
113
#444
Studyman said:
Rom. 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works?(Kill a goat, sprinkle it's Blood) Nay: but by the law of faith. (Love God, Love your Neighbor)

Matt. 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Click to expand...
the law of works translates into dead works . dead works are defined as things that one does to try to justify himself to God ( moral or ceremonial). they are dead because they are not a product of a regenerated heart. so, yes, what you say, but there is a wider definition that needs to be used.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#445
Jun 30, 2015
25,587
13,857
113
#445
Studyman said:
Rom. 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works?(Kill a goat, sprinkle it's Blood) Nay: but by the law of faith. (Love God, Love your Neighbor)

Matt. 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Click to expand...
Under which covenant was Jesus speaking to the Pharisees?
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#446
Jul 31, 2013
37,931
13,611
113
#446
But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it — the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.​
Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.​
(Romans 3:21-28)​


"the law of faith" is not certain random parts of the Law of Moses that you pull out, isolate and call 'works of faith'

verse 28 begins with a 'then' indicating that verse 28 is a conclusion reached by arguments and evidence that has been given in the preceding text.
verse 21 and 27 both explicitly call out the faith that is being written about: faith in Jesus. a righteousness by faith, completely apart from the Law -- and 'love God and love your neighbor' are both part of the Law; in fact famously the greatest commandments of it.

loving God and one another because they are a law is still working at a law.
one is justified by faith apart from works of the Law - "although the Law and the prophets bear witness to it" - and if we think we are rewarded for keeping this, even these, we're still thinking we're working to receive wages, not working because we have received a gift.

For by works of the law no flesh will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.
(Romans 3:20)​
​
no one is going to be justified by loving God or by loving others.
everyone's mouth is going to be stopped by these commands, because no one is found not guilty of breaking them.

For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; ​
it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast. ​
(Ephesians 2:8-9) ​

not by works. not even by good ones. not from ourselves, but from believing the good news - :) - by the 'law of faith' that is His grace to all who believe.








​
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#447
Jul 31, 2013
37,931
13,611
113
#447
maybe go find all the instances of Jesus telling someone 'your faith has healed you' or something similar, and see how many times He said 'because you have obediently loved God and loved your neighbor you have been healed' or see if substituting 'by keeping the parts of the Law that aren't about priesthood or sacrifices you have been healed' makes any sense in each context.

?

maybe we'll learn something :D
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#448
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
#448
Studyman said:
You keep asking me "what Laws" when you have the same Bible as I have. Sorry if I understood this as asking for instruction.

1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Ex. 15:26 And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee.

This was after Passover but before God enumerated through Moses His Laws. Yet God is telling these folks He led out of Egypt to keep His Commandments. How can this be if God didn't have Laws before the Sinai Covenant that "many" on the forum and in Mainstream Christianity Preach?

Ex. 16:
4 Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.
5 And it shall come to pass, that on the sixth day they shall prepare that which they bring in; and it shall be twice as much as they gather daily.

This was before Mt. Sinai. This is before Moses enumerated God's Commandments. Yet God has created a "Test" Commandment to "Prove them".

And what did the word which became Flesh say about those who rejected His Sabbath?

25 And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day ye shall not find it in the field.
26 Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.
27 And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.

28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?

Do you really believe there is even a chance that Adam, Noah and Abraham didn't know about God's Sabbath?
Click to expand...
I'm not aware of a scripture passage that talks about how much Adam Noah and Abraham knew about the Sabbath.
I'm not aware of a scripture passage that would have told Adam Noah and Abraham to rest from physical work on the Sabbath.

why is let there be light a commandment, but let there be an expanse is not?
 
C

ChristWhoLivesInMe

Junior Member
#449
Nov 21, 2017
66
26
18
#449
Jeremiah74 said:
Good question. In my opinion its fine to. I don't see anywhere in scripture birthdays are celebrated but I don't believe its wrong to since we are not worshiping God in a different way than he instructed us to.
Click to expand...
Gen_40:20 And it came to pass the third day, which was Pharaoh's birthday, that he made a feast unto all his servants: and he lifted up the head of the chief butler and of the chief baker among his servants.

Mat_14:6 But when Herod's birthday was kept, the daughter of Herodias danced before them, and pleased Herod.

Mar_6:21 And when a convenient day was come, that Herod on his birthday made a supper to his lords, high captains, and chief estates of Galilee;
 
C

ChristWhoLivesInMe

Junior Member
#450
Nov 21, 2017
66
26
18
#450
Dan_473 said:
I'm not aware of a scripture passage that talks about how much Adam Noah and Abraham knew about the Sabbath.
I'm not aware of a scripture passage that would have told Adam Noah and Abraham to rest from physical work on the Sabbath.

why is let there be light a commandment, but let there be an expanse is not?
Click to expand...
I guess you didn't notice it, Studyman had "and sanctified it" in red. From the very beginning the 7th day was a holy day. When did it become unholy?
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#451
Jul 31, 2013
37,931
13,611
113
#451
Jeremiah74 said:
I used to think Paul was talking about the Torah, But after much research I see that Paul is referring to the Oral Law(Talmud).
In John 1:1 If Jesus is the word What word is he referring to? NT did not exist He is the Living Torah
Click to expand...
if Paul was writing about Talmud you would think that at least once when he mentioned "the Law" he would quote from it - in fact you would expect that he quotes Talmud every time.
but instead every time he quotes with reference to "the Law" he quotes Torah, and not even once does he ever quote Talmud that i am aware of.

that believers are under Moses and the Bible only describes us being set free from Talmud is an indefensible position IMO.
that don't stop folks from trying tho . . .



John 1:1 says 'in the beginning' -- it was a long time after the beginning that the Lord made a covenant with the sons of Israel at Horeb.
He created everything by His Word.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#452
Jul 31, 2013
37,931
13,611
113
#452
ChristWhoLivesInMe said:
I guess you didn't notice it, Studyman had "and sanctified it" in red. From the very beginning the 7th day was a holy day. When did it become unholy?
Click to expand...
​
For now have I chosen and sanctified this house, that My name may be there for ever: ​
and Mine eyes and Mine heart shall be there perpetually.​
(2 Chronicles 7:16) ​

has the threshing floor of Araunah become unholy?

believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.​
(John 4:21) ​

from Him, through Him and to Him are all things.
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#453
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
#453
ChristWhoLivesInMe said:
I guess you didn't notice it, Studyman had "and sanctified it" in red. From the very beginning the 7th day was a holy day. When did it become unholy?
Click to expand...
I didn't say it wasn't holy, I said I wasn't aware of a scripture reference that talks about Adam Noah or Abraham not doing physical work on the Sabbath.
 
beta

beta

Senior Member
#455
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
333
83
#455
Dan_473 said:
I didn't say it wasn't holy, I said I wasn't aware of a scripture reference that talks about Adam Noah or Abraham not doing physical work on the Sabbath.
Click to expand...
It says in Gen 26v5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes and my laws.
I would say that covers just about EWVERYTHING God required, or did He forget to add the Sabbath ? was it not included in the Commandments ?
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#456
Jul 31, 2013
37,931
13,611
113
#456
beta said:
It says in Gen 26v5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes and my laws.
I would say that covers just about EWVERYTHING God required, or did He forget to add the Sabbath ? was it not included in the Commandments ?
Click to expand...
It's a large bit of speculation involved to assume that this means Abraham had and kept Torah. It's pretty much pure speculation.
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#457
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
#457
beta said:
It says in Gen 26v5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes and my laws.
I would say that covers just about EWVERYTHING God required, or did He forget to add the Sabbath ? was it not included in the Commandments ?
Click to expand...
no question that Abraham had Commandments, statutes, and laws from God.

But what Commandments did he have? We know he had physical circumcision which is not part of the levitical priesthood but that is something that appears not to be carried over in the New Covenant.

Yes I know there is spiritual circumcision of the heart. but Abraham was commanded to do physical circumcision.

I don't think Noah was required to circumcise.

So what Commandments Abraham had is the question we've been discussing.
 
beta

beta

Senior Member
#458
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
333
83
#458
posthuman said:
It's a large bit of speculation involved to assume that this means Abraham had and kept Torah. It's pretty much pure speculation.
Click to expand...
Does scripture not say Abraham kept God's commandments ? do they include Sabbath-keeping ? Doubt and speculation are yours !
 
beta

beta

Senior Member
#459
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
333
83
#459
Dan_473 said:
no question that Abraham had Commandments, statutes, and laws from God.

But what Commandments did he have? We know he had physical circumcision which is not part of the levitical priesthood but that is something that appears not to be carried over in the New Covenant.

Yes I know there is spiritual circumcision of the heart. but Abraham was commanded to do physical circumcision.

I don't think Noah was required to circumcise.

So what Commandments Abraham had is the question we've been discussing.
Click to expand...
Why wonder what commandments Abraham obeyed ? He lived in the OT and would obviously have kept ALL the commandments God required .....which are the same ones we know of but no longer have to keep all.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#460
Jul 31, 2013
37,931
13,611
113
#460
beta said:
Does scripture not say Abraham kept God's commandments ? do they include Sabbath-keeping ? Doubt and speculation are yours !
Click to expand...
Does scripture say specifically that Abraham was commanded sabbath observance?
Absolutely no, it does not specifically say this. Nowhere in scripture is any sabbath observation recorded as commanded to anyone until Exodus 16.

That makes speculation purely on the part of the person who swears what isn't written. If we only go by what's written, what you are saying is not there.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.