For those of you who think Jesus is not God.

It's talking about the twelve son's of Jacob, The lineage in which Christ came through. Christ is lord of all.

Is the point of Christianity salvation, or lifestyle practices?

Well it depends on what version you are reading cause little things like a comma or a period make a big diffrence.

CEV
ROMANS 9:5
They have those famous ancestors, who were also the ancestors of Jesus Christ. I pray that God, who rules over all, will be praised forever![a] Amen.

NABRE
ROMANS 9:5
theirs the patriarchs, and from them, according to the flesh, is the Messiah. God who is over all[c] be blessed forever. Amen.

The point of Christianity is Christ.

There is both salvation and lifestyle in Him. He is fully man and fully God.

Are you aware that many Bible versions are based on corrupted texts which also attack fundamental Bible doctrines? Punctuation should be the least of your worries. Christ is God blessed forever, as attested by many other passages.

As demonstrated, punctuation can change meaning significantly.

In the same way, to deny the divinity of God the Father and the scripture God breathed as gospel is to deny Christ.

The language of the New Testament -- Koine Greek -- had no punctuation (neither did Hebrew).

In any event, most English translations of Heb 9:5 confirm that Jesus is God in that passage.

Thats the problem. Every English translator must interpret it according to his belief. He must choose one of multiple possibilities.

Obviously. But if somebody wants to use this verse as some "bullet proof" argument, he will have difficulties, if his opponent is able to go deeper than just reading a specific translation. That was my point.

So we are nothing without Christ, correct?

Correct. Without Christ we would not exist.

According to the gospel of john correct?

would this thread be able to convince the Jews of Israel that Christianity is true?

I did give two options.. Which means i was not making a definite statement either way about you.. Of course you would have a better idea which statement is accurate if either of them is.. If you want to know if your former religious beliefs where actually an accurate Christian position then you need to study Biblical Christianity to be sure..


If there is maybe you can come forward and say what you think it might be.. I would be interested to consider your theory..

Peace of mind,, assurance.. No fears or worries about eternity..


You may have been .. You may not have been.. I do not believe in the Once Saved Always Saved doctrine supported by a number of other Christians on this site..


Well i believe that God knows the thoughts and intentions of all people in existence.. So to me God is listening to everyone from the devout true Christian right through to the devout true satanist.. He knows all and see's all .. That's how he will be able to judge perfectly all people on the day of judgement..


That's not my POV.. I see God as being very unhuman in many aspects of His revealed will... take for example the trinity.. If you where a human creating a religion that would be easily consumed and accepted by people you would not include a doctrine like the trinity.. Christians spend hours meditating on that mystery and trying to understand it..

If i was a human making up a religion i would make it a works salvation religion with one God.. People like things simple and they like to be able to make the grade and achieve the results for themselves.. Telling people that they cannot make the grade and they are sinners needing forgiveness to be saved really runs against the pride of people.. No one likes to be told they are a looser in need of someone else to pull them out of the... Well manure..

For Jews there is enough in the Old Testament to convince an honest Jew that Jesus is indeed the Messiah, the Christ (who is also God), and therefore Bible Christianity is true. Let's take just one passage (Micah 5:2,4):

But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.... And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth.

1. Was Jesus born in Bethlehem? Yes

2. Did Pilate nail this superscription to His Cross? "This is Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews".

3. Is Jesus God? Absolutely

4. Is the name of Jesus Christ known throughout the world? Absolutely

No. When Jesus was living between them and performing miracles, they followed him massively. After His crucifixion, these masses were gone.

Cross is a stumbling block for them. They think that the kingdom of God is physical.

They rather invented their own religion (judaism) instead of accepting a crucified Christ.

that will definitely rule out the most ambition goals for apologetics that we can possibly think of
let God do the unveiling

Apologetics:
a) empowers our own faith (we acknoledge that Christianity is rational)
b) is a help for people who are searching for God

Apologetics (rational or biblical arguments) is quite useless for people who do not want to believe, do not care about God or who have other blocks (emotional, traditional, already in some ohter faith with a closed mind).

The Bible is quite clear on who God is and who Jesus is. Jesus speaks simply on this matter.
Jesus is not God, Yet Gods Spirit never left Him, save the brief time on the cross when He said, "Father, why has thou forsaken me?"
That is just one of many verses that clearly show They are separate entities.
Yet.. God was with Him, so in that, He had to be respected the same as You would respect God if you were in Gods presence.
Jesus only said what He heard from the Father. So when Jesus was speaking, they were hearing exactly what God would say if it were God Himself speaking. Jesus only did what He learned from the Father so whatever they saw Jesus do is the same thing God would do. Where I go, you can not come. I go to be with the Father who is in heaven.
So in this debate, both are right. Jesus is a man in the flesh. Yet Gods Spirit is with Him and works through Him so in that you can say He is God yet He is still the Son even though all Power has been given Him by the Father.
I did not come to do my will, but the will of the Father who sent me.
Why do you call me good. There is only one who is good. The Father who is in heaven.
Jesus speaks often of learning from God. Saying what He heard from God. Doing as He sees the Father doing, so they are without doubt two separate beings. Yet Gods Spirit is with Him So God is with Him and that makes Him God in that respect.
Jesus prays to the Father. Speaks to the Father. He claims not to be the Father. Yet when He says when you see me you see the Father, He is saying the Father is there also.
The Father and the Son. It isn't as complicated as it can appear when reading these debates.