regenerated

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notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#21
May 17, 2013
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#21
7seasrekeyed said:
he says he was saved when Jesus died on the cross so it seems that Calvinism it is

and a teacher too yet
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He must be a lot older than I thought. LOL His theology is not exactly too well thought out despite the time he has invested in it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#22
May 17, 2013
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#22
ForestGreenCook said:
I have heard of John Calvin, but have never read anything that he has written. I do not depend on the writings of any man, only the inspired word as translated from the 1611 King James version of the bible. Christ taught a doctrine when he, as a man, walked this earth for 33 years, and I am trying to learn the doctrine he taught where the scriptures never contradict each other. 1 Cor 2:16 says that the natural man, as we all are when we are born into this world, can never understand anything of a spiritual nature until we are born of the Spirit and can discern spiritual things.
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Well you have a lot of stuff going on in there. You really should read more of Gods word than 1 Corinthians 2. I would suggest you do some study in the Gospel of John. You could look into the Epistle to the Romans there is a ton of doctrine in there.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#23
Jul 31, 2013
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#23
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
Convert means to turn around (part of repentance) and regenerated means receiving a new nature, i.e., the new birth.
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eternally-gratefull said:
regeneration is a term given to give life to something that is dead.

we who are dead to God have been made alive in Christ, that is regeneration (our dead bodies have been made alive)

conversion means that we have been converted from one belief to another belief.
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so, can we agree to say conversion is a mental property - it's an event having to do with one's mind, while regeneration is having to do with something else - the spirit of man?
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#24
May 17, 2013
15,050
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#24
posthuman said:
so, can we agree to say conversion is a mental property - it's an event having to do with one's mind, while regeneration is having to do with something else - the spirit of man?
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Only if you believe that God changes both.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#25
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#25
eternally-gratefull said:
That does not mean anything, the natural man is in his natural state, however, when God works on a person to draw them to himself, he (God) can overcome hat natural stateof p the natural man, otherwise, no person could ever have faith in christ, we would either deny him, and no one would be saved, or be robots,

Niether of those options fit Gods character
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what I find that fits God, is that he is all powerful and does accomplish his will, Dan 4:35, And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou? Our faith in Christ does not save us eternally, but is an evidence that we are already saved eternally It is Christ's faith that saved us unless you are reading from a version that is not the King James version. Gal 2:16, where newer versions have changed the word "of" to read :in". making it man's faith that justifies himself instead of Christ's faith.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#26
Jul 31, 2013
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#26
notuptome said:
Are you attempting to promote Calvinism?
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i believe what he was asking if it was fair to say that regeneration must come before conversion, based on the fact that the carnal man cannot receive the things of the Spirit - or perceive them, re: John 3, since he's also equated regeneration with being born again. do we agree with that? do we agree regeneration = be born again?

which..
eternally-gratefull said:
the natural man is in his natural state
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the natural state of man is death. spiritual and physical. our bodies are in decay from birth.


so i was hoping to pin down some kind of definitions of 'regeneration' and 'conversion' that we could all agree on.
based on this, if we took it -

ForestGreenCook said:
You must be born again (regenerated) before you are converted (turning away from your old life of serving yourself to serving God.)
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regeneration isn't really defined, it's just restated/named as another thing we need a clear definition of.
what is "be born again" ?
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#28
Jul 31, 2013
37,931
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#28
notuptome said:
Only if you believe that God changes both.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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yes, i do

He sets, changes and creates; the Potter does as He will with His clay. and He even makes His own clay :)
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#29
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#29
ForestGreenCook said:
what I find that fits God, is that he is all powerful and does accomplish his will, Dan 4:35, And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou? Our faith in Christ does not save us eternally, but is an evidence that we are already saved eternally It is Christ's faith that saved us unless you are reading from a version that is not the King James version. Gal 2:16, where newer versions have changed the word "of" to read :in". making it man's faith that justifies himself instead of Christ's faith.
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Faith does not save. God saves according to His grace. Grace is unmerited. Faith is how we learn of Gods grace. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing the word of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#31
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
692
113
#31
posthuman said:
so, can we agree to say conversion is a mental property - it's an event having to do with one's mind, while regeneration is having to do with something else - the spirit of man?
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I would say that convert also includes the heart. It's something man does. Regen is totally GOD's work. Repent and turn, then be refreshed by the lord's presence (regen).

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; Acts 3:19​
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#32
Jul 31, 2013
37,931
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#32
ForestGreenCook said:
Regeneration is by the Spirit of God, not by the spirit of man.
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what about conversion?

this is active verb:

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord
(Acts 3:19)
​
and this is passive:

Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.​
(Matthew 18:3)​

are they talking about the same thing? are they talking about it in the same way?
they are not the same Greek words, but similar ones.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#33
#33
notuptome said:
Only if you believe that God changes both.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Only if we believe god does not force change, or deny change to anyone. But gives man freedom to react to his work, or reject his work
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#34
#34
ForestGreenCook said:
what I find that fits God, is that he is all powerful and does accomplish his will, Dan 4:35, And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou? Our faith in Christ does not save us eternally, but is an evidence that we are already saved eternally It is Christ's faith that saved us unless you are reading from a version that is not the King James version. Gal 2:16, where newer versions have changed the word "of" to read :in". making it man's faith that justifies himself instead of Christ's faith.
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Yes he does accomplish his will,

What is his will? That whever sees and believes will never de, and is given eternal life.

And excuse me but we are justified by faith, if you have yet to come to faith, you have yet to be justified and are still dead in your sin!
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#35
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#35
posthuman said:
i believe what he was asking if it was fair to say that regeneration must come before conversion, based on the fact that the carnal man cannot receive the things of the Spirit - or perceive them, re: John 3, since he's also equated regeneration with being born again. do we agree with that? do we agree regeneration = be born again?

which..


the natural state of man is death. spiritual and physical. our bodies are in decay from birth.


so i was hoping to pin down some kind of definitions of 'regeneration' and 'conversion' that we could all agree on.
based on this, if we took it -



regeneration isn't really defined, it's just restated/named as another thing we need a clear definition of.
what is "be born again" ?
Click to expand...
Yes, regeneration is the same as being born of the Spirit, Titus 3:5, Not by works of righteousness which we have done (repenting, confessing, accepting, etc) but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#36
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#36
eternally-gratefull said:
Yes he does accomplish his will,

What is his will? That whever sees and believes will never de, and is given eternal life.

And excuse me but we are justified by faith, if you have yet to come to faith, you have yet to be justified and are still dead in your sin!
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Jesus said in John 6:37-39, All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me; And this is the Father's will, which has sent me, that of all he has given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. (all that Jesus died for will live in heaven with him forever without the lose of even one). Who are the ones that God gave to him? Answer - Eph 1:4, According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world that we should be holy and without blame before him in love, having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ according to the good pleasure of his will, Jesus started that adoption process by paying the price for us as he gave his life for our sins on the cross. I am sorry, but our faith does not justify us for eternal life. You will have to give me scripture to back that statement up.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#37
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#37
eternally-gratefull said:
Yes he does accomplish his will,

What is his will? That whever sees and believes will never de, and is given eternal life.

And excuse me but we are justified by faith, if you have yet to come to faith, you have yet to be justified and are still dead in your sin!
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If it is God's will to eternally save all mankind to eternal life, then all mankind will live with him in heaven, and we know that there are too many scriptures that will not hold up to the fact that all mankind will be saved.
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#38
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
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#38
ForestGreenCook said:
Jesus said in John 6:37-39, All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me; And this is the Father's will, which has sent me, that of all he has given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. (all that Jesus died for will live in heaven with him forever without the lose of even one). Who are the ones that God gave to him? Answer - Eph 1:4, According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world that we should be holy and without blame before him in love, having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ according to the good pleasure of his will, Jesus started that adoption process by paying the price for us as he gave his life for our sins on the cross. I am sorry, but our faith does not justify us for eternal life. You will have to give me scripture to back that statement up.
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Is it his will that all mankind will be saved eternally? If so, they will be saved, or that would make God a failure. Yes I know that God has given man a choice in their lives as they live here on earth, but their eternal life is chosen by God and not man We love him because he first loved us, not the other way around 1 John 4:19. Thessalonians 2:13, God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth.
 
S

shrume

Senior Member
#39
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
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83
#39
ForestGreenCook said:
Is it his will that all mankind will be saved eternally? If so, they will be saved, or that would make God a failure. Yes I know that God has given man a choice in their lives as they live here on earth, but their eternal life is chosen by God and not man We love him because he first loved us, not the other way around 1 John 4:19. Thessalonians 2:13, God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth.
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1 Tim 2:
4) Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Pet 3:
9) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

So is God a failure, or will all men be saved?

Or, perhaps, God really does want all men to be saved, but He gave us free will, and men are free to accept Him or reject Him.
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#40
Jul 8, 2018
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#40
eternally-gratefull said:
Only if we believe god does not force change, or deny change to anyone. But gives man freedom to react to his work, or reject his work
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as I have stated, God has given man the freedom to make choices pertaining to his life as he lives here on earth, but choices his eternal life . There are many children of God who reject his work, which affects their life here, but they are still saved eternally.
 
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