regenerated

[eternally-gratefull]

I am sorry you feel that way. I thought this was a forum to discuss scriptures. I hope that I have not offended you in any way, if so, it was not my intention.

Just stop skipping over the scriptures I and many other people are giving you and ignoring them.

If you do not want to discuss my scripture and just your own, that is not being open to discussion.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

I would say that convert also includes the heart. It's something man does. Regen is totally GOD's work. Repent and turn, then be refreshed by the lord's presence (regen).

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; Acts 3:19​

3340. metanoeó ►

Strong's Concordance​

metanoeó: to change one's mind or purpose

Original Word: μετανοέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: metanoeó
Phonetic Spelling: (met-an-o-eh'-o)
Short Definition: I repent, change my mind
Definition: I repent, change my mind, change the inner man (particularly with reference to acceptance of the will of God), repent.​

we repent of unbelief <- change our mind in response to hearing the truth


He works a greater repentance in us through the new heart He provides and the Holy spirit <- change of inner man



we do not "change" our hearts

God makes us a new one when He puts His spirit in us

 

[NoNameMcgee]

3340. metanoeó ►

Strong's Concordance​

metanoeó: to change one's mind or purpose

Original Word: μετανοέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: metanoeó
Phonetic Spelling: (met-an-o-eh'-o)
Short Definition: I repent, change my mind
Definition: I repent, change my mind, change the inner man (particularly with reference to acceptance of the will of God), repent.​

we repent of unbelief <- change our mind in response to hearing the truth


He works a greater repentance in us through the new heart He provides and the Holy spirit <- change of inner man



we do not "change" our hearts

God makes us a new one when He puts His spirit in us

Psalms 51:10 - Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
Ezekiel 36:26 - A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

 

[notuptome]

Then can you tell me how the natural man in 1 Cor 2:14 can see, hear, and respond to the gospel?

Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Sufficient light is given every man. Sufficient to see themselves as sinners and in need of redemption.

Have you ever acknowledged your sin to God and asked the Savior to save you?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

we do not "change" our hearts

Repentance involves more than just the mind. It involves the heart as well. There is not a Greek word that by iteself translates the Hebrew word for repentance.

But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart, you are storing up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and of the revelation of the righteous judgment of God, Romans 2:5​

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Repentance involves more than just the mind. It involves the heart as well. There is not a Greek word that by iteself translates the Hebrew word for repentance.

But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart, you are storing up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and of the revelation of the righteous judgment of God, Romans 2:5​

id disagree with your opinion than man changes mans heart

and disregard your hebrew roots element

but i do agree that verse is speaking of men who did not repent

no new heart
judgemental men under the law and not grace condemning one another in unbelief

__________


Romans 2
2 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.

3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,

18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;

19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,

20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.

21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?

22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?

23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?

24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?

27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

 

[shrume]

How can the natural man explained in 1 Cor 2:14 be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth when he can not understand spiritual things?

Calvinism grossly overstates the fallen nature of man. People who are not born again can hear the gospel and understand it well enough to come to believe on Jesus Christ. When they do so, they become born again (Eph 1:13).

If Calvinism is true, our being ambassadors for Christ is meaningless (2 Cor 5:20).
If Calvinism is true, it doesn't matter if anyone preaches the gospel or not.
If Calvinism is true, God is the author of sin and evil.
If Calvinism is true, God is not loving.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Sorry, But that is not correct.

Again, Jesus gave the reason.

1. That all who see and believe will be given eternal life (john 6)
2. That whoever believes in him will never die, but have eternal life (john 3)

Your correct. None will come to him apart from his drawing, But as Jesus in john yet again said, The HS convicts the world of sin righteousness and judgment, Not just the elect. the world. You have to change alot of bible to believe in fatalism, and believe God is not a god of true love, but of selective love, period.

Maybe you could make me better understand if you would tell me what you think Eph 1 means. What scripture that I have quoted are you saying that it is not correct?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

id disagree with your opinion than man changes mans heart

and disregard your hebrew roots element

but i do agree that verse is speaking of men who did not repent

no new heart
judgemental men under the law and not grace condemning one another in unbelief

__________


Romans 2
2 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.

3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,

18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;

19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,

20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.

21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?

22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?

23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?

24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?

27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

romans is packed full of many profound truths, you do know that the faith found in the 7th verse is Christ's faith and not man's faith, I hope.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Calvinism grossly overstates the fallen nature of man. People who are not born again can hear the gospel and understand it well enough to come to believe on Jesus Christ. When they do so, they become born again (Eph 1:13).

If Calvinism is true, our being ambassadors for Christ is meaningless (2 Cor 5:20).
If Calvinism is true, it doesn't matter if anyone preaches the gospel or not.
If Calvinism is true, God is the author of sin and evil.
If Calvinism is true, God is not loving.

where do you find in 1 Cor 2 any thing that says the natural man can understand it well enough to come to believe on Jesus Christ? Or are you just assuming that?

 

[shrume]

where do you find in 1 Cor 2 any thing that says the natural man can understand it well enough to come to believe on Jesus Christ? Or are you just assuming that?

From the scope of scripture. The fact that we are ambassadors for Christ, the fact that we are to share our faith with others, the fact that people who preach the gospel are blessed, the fact that faith comes by hearing the word of God, the fact that people can be persuaded to become believers.

Read Romans 1:

20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21) Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

People can know there's a God simply by looking at creation.

Rom 10:
14) How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15) And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Forest, as most Calvinists do, you're blowing that one verse completely out or proportion, and not reading the rest of the Bible.

Also, you never address anyone's counterpoints.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

From the scope of scripture. The fact that we are ambassadors for Christ, the fact that we are to share our faith with others, the fact that people who preach the gospel are blessed, the fact that faith comes by hearing the word of God, the fact that people can be persuaded to become believers.

Read Romans 1:

20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21) Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

People can know there's a God simply by looking at creation.

Rom 10:
14) How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15) And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Forest, as most Calvinists do, you're blowing that one verse completely out or proportion, and not reading the rest of the Bible.

Also, you never address anyone's counterpoints.

All of your above comments are talking about people who are already born of the Spirit. What you are trying to do, is make the natural man understand spiritual things. If he does not have the Spirit within him, he can not understand spiritual things. All scripture must compliment each other and not contradict each other.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

From the scope of scripture. The fact that we are ambassadors for Christ, the fact that we are to share our faith with others, the fact that people who preach the gospel are blessed, the fact that faith comes by hearing the word of God, the fact that people can be persuaded to become believers.

Read Romans 1:

20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21) Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

People can know there's a God simply by looking at creation.

Rom 10:
14) How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15) And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Forest, as most Calvinists do, you're blowing that one verse completely out or proportion, and not reading the rest of the Bible.

Also, you never address anyone's counterpoints.

All of your above comments are talking about people who are already born of the Spirit. You are trying to make the natural man understand spiritual things, which he can not without first being born of the Spirit (Eph 2:5 ).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Maybe you could make me better understand if you would tell me what you think Eph 1 means. What scripture that I have quoted are you saying that it is not correct?

Eph 1 agrees with me, In fact, paul tells us there exactly why we were predestined and why we were chosen, and it goes right along with the passage I gave you where Jesus said he who sees and believes will be given life.

Eph 1:
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

see,

First you hear (this may take months or even years of hearing and being drawn before repentance takes place)

second you believe

AFTER you believe, you are given the HS.

We are not given the HS THEN believe, that is incorrect.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

From the scope of scripture. The fact that we are ambassadors for Christ, the fact that we are to share our faith with others, the fact that people who preach the gospel are blessed, the fact that faith comes by hearing the word of God, the fact that people can be persuaded to become believers.

Read Romans 1:

20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21) Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

People can know there's a God simply by looking at creation.

Rom 10:
14) How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15) And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Forest, as most Calvinists do, you're blowing that one verse completely out or proportion, and not reading the rest of the Bible.
the
Also, you never address anyone's counterpoints.

God is a spirit, a person who has not been born of the Spirit can not comprehend spiritual things, therefore, he does not think about God creating it. He may think it is pretty, but would not give God credit for it. On the other hand a person that has been born of the Spirit will understand to give God credit. What it comes down to is a person that has not been born of the Spirit can not get born of the Spirit by anything that he says, thinks, or does. The only way that the natural man described in 1 Cor 2:14 can be born again is explained in Eph 2:1 thru 5. And you hath he quickened ( gave spiritual life ) , who were dead ( spiritually dead , as the natural man in 1 Cor 2:14 ) in trespasses and sins; Wherein in times past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit ( of the prince of the air ) that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we ( who have been born of the Spirit ) all had our conversation in times past ( when we were only a natural man ) in the lust of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature ( 1 Cor 2:14 ) the children of wrath, even as others, But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead ( spiritually dead ) in sins, hath quickened ( put his Spirit within us ) us together with Christ ( for by grace are ye saved ), In those verses I do not see where the natural man had to do anything, such as, hear, repent, believe etc. Do you?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Eph 1 agrees with me, In fact, paul tells us there exactly why we were predestined and why we were chosen, and it goes right along with the passage I gave you where Jesus said he who sees and believes will be given life.

Eph 1:
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

see,

First you hear (this may take months or even years of hearing and being drawn before repentance takes place)

second you believe

AFTER you believe, you are given the HS.
Being sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise is an earnest ( down payment ) of our inheritance that he has promised to come again gather us up to heaven. I see that you skipped over the first 12 verses, was there a reason for that? I have to keep reminding you that the natural man ( void of the Spirit ) can not hear and will not believe until he is born of the Spirit as explained in Eph 2:1 thru 5.

 

[notuptome]

God is a spirit, a person who has not been born of the Spirit can not comprehend spiritual things, therefore, he does not think about God creating it. He may think it is pretty, but would not give God credit for it. On the other hand a person that has been born of the Spirit will understand to give God credit. What it comes down to is a person that has not been born of the Spirit can not get born of the Spirit by anything that he says, thinks, or does. The only way that the natural man described in 1 Cor 2:14 can be born again is explained in Eph 2:1 thru 5. And you hath he quickened ( gave spiritual life ) , who were dead ( spiritually dead , as the natural man in 1 Cor 2:14 ) in trespasses and sins; Wherein in times past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit ( of the prince of the air ) that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we ( who have been born of the Spirit ) all had our conversation in times past ( when we were only a natural man ) in the lust of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature ( 1 Cor 2:14 ) the children of wrath, even as others, But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead ( spiritually dead ) in sins, hath quickened ( put his Spirit within us ) us together with Christ ( for by grace are ye saved ), In those verses I do not see where the natural man had to do anything, such as, hear, repent, believe etc. Do you?

When were you born of the Spirit? When were you converted from a natural man to a Spiritual man?

This is obviously your hot button issue so give us your testimony that we might be encouraged.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[shrume]

God is a spirit, a person who has not been born of the Spirit can not comprehend spiritual things, therefore, he does not think about God creating it. He may think it is pretty, but would not give God credit for it. On the other hand a person that has been born of the Spirit will understand to give God credit. What it comes down to is a person that has not been born of the Spirit can not get born of the Spirit by anything that he says, thinks, or does. The only way that the natural man described in 1 Cor 2:14 can be born again is explained in Eph 2:1 thru 5. And you hath he quickened ( gave spiritual life ) , who were dead ( spiritually dead , as the natural man in 1 Cor 2:14 ) in trespasses and sins; Wherein in times past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit ( of the prince of the air ) that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we ( who have been born of the Spirit ) all had our conversation in times past ( when we were only a natural man ) in the lust of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature ( 1 Cor 2:14 ) the children of wrath, even as others, But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead ( spiritually dead ) in sins, hath quickened ( put his Spirit within us ) us together with Christ ( for by grace are ye saved ), In those verses I do not see where the natural man had to do anything, such as, hear, repent, believe etc. Do you?

Eph 1:
13) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

People become born again of the Holy Spirit AFTER they believe the gospel. God does not save people first.

Again, Calvinists grossly overstate the nature of fallen man.

I think I remember you from bible-discussion.com. You were promoting your Calvinist beliefs there, and would not be persuaded. I'm guessing the same will be true here.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

1. Please learn to quote properly or at least correct if you can. I will try to remember what you wrote
2. I di dnot skip those verses at all. As I showed you, vs 13 qand 14 are rthe reason the first 12 verses were made possible. (Gods chosing based on his foreknowledge)

As for the seal of the spirit. It is an earnest UNTIL the day of redemption, meaning it can not be lost, Once you have been ressurected,m You no longer need the seal of the spirit, because you will never be able to sin again, thus have need of the spirit as a deposit.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

When were you born of the Spirit? When were you converted from a natural man to a Spiritual man?

This is obviously your hot button issue so give us your testimony that we might be encouraged.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

John 3:7-8, Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth; so is everyone that is born of the Spirit. I can not remember when I was born again, but I have experienced evidences that I have been. I do, however remember when I was converted at the age of 62. I have read the account of John being born of the Spirit when his pregnant mother was visiting with the pregnant Mary ( Jesus's mother ). I do not know if John's new birth was unique or if others have been born again under the same way. I doubt that this encourages you, but there it is.