Not By Works

You may say whatever you like about my Jesus - that will not keep me from loving Him who first loved me!

weak, inept, ineffectual? you think so? when he saves to the uttermost those who believe in Him!

I am in complete agreement with your definition and explanation of believing.

Your missing the point by a mile, "not by works" it is talking about "Salvation", you are speaking about what we do after we are saved, which is our Practice or Sanctification and our daily walk in the Spirit. We are Saved by Grace alone through faith in the blood sacrifice of our Savior Jesus Christ. You cannot add "Good Works" to what God has already finished, that is your eternal salvation, Not by Works, the same title as this thread.

Saved by Grace through Faith, a simple idea but hard to grasp for so people.

Were you not Scoffing at OSAS? <-- VCO, do you want more rewards in heaven?
then let me persecute you more, then you will have more rewards in heaven.

Philippians 2 : 8
8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became OBEDIENT--even death on a cross!


1 Peter 2 : 21
21 To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, thatYOU SHOULD FOLLOW IN HIS STEPS


John 13 : 15-17
15 I have set you an example that YOU SHOULD DO AS I HAVE DONE FOR YOU
16 I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.
17 Now that you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them.


1 John 2 : 6
6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
hebrews 5: 7-9
7 During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.
8 Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered
9 and, once made perfect, HE BECAME THE SOURCE OF ETERNAL LIFE FOR THOSE WHO OBEY HIM.


Ephesians 5 : 6
6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things GOD'S WRATH COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT.

James 2 : 26
26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

To me that's not the issue.

The issue is that those who say you must do, must not do and if you don't you are out are very quick to say it and heap condemnation on those who do not do.
The problem is that we/you must be/not doing 100% 24/7 and if you do not then off to hell.


Yet they are safe because they do 100% of the time. Well at least they think they do.
Sanctification is a myth and perfection is the reality.

Luke 18:11-14
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ 13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

IS SANCTIFICATION A PART OF SALVATION?
Romans 6:15-23 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to OBEDIENCE WHICH LEADS TO RIGHTEOUSNESS? But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted. You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. I put this in human terms because you are weak in your natural selves. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so NOW offer them in slavery to RIGHTEOUSNESS LEADING TO HOLINESS. When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! But NOW that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap LEADS TO HOLINESS, and THE RESULT IS ETERNAL LIFE. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

THESE VERSES ABOVE CLEARLY SAYS THAT OBEDIENCE LEADS TO RIGHTEOUSNESS THAT LEADS TO HOLINESS AND THE RESULT IS ETERNAL LIFE.
OUR LORD JESUS SAID;

Matthew 19:17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. IF YOU WANT TO ENTER LIFE,(ref: john 14:6) OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS.”
John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.

john 14:21-24 WHOEVER HAS MY COMMANDS AND OBEYS THEM, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.” Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?” Jesus replied, “IF ANYONE LOVES ME, HE WILL OBEY MY TEACHING.
My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. HE WHO DOES NOT LOVE ME WILL NOT OBEY MY TEACHINGS. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
AND BEFORE GOING BACK TO THE FATHER HE GAVE HIS DISCIPLES THESE COMMANDS;
matthew 28:19-20 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and TEACHING THEM TO OBEY EVERYTHING I HAVE COMMANDED YOU . And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
THESE WORDS OF OUR LORD JESUS ARE TRUE AND IS THE TRUTH.
John 17:17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.
WILL ANYONE BE SANCTIFIED WITHOUT OBEYING THE TRUTH?

Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard THE WORD OF TRUTH, THE GOSPEL OF YOUR SALVATION. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

DOES THE GOSPEL OF OUR SALVATION TEACHES US TO DISOBEY BY SAYING THAT "FAITH ALONE" SAVES, VOID OF ANY SORT OF WORKS?

THAT EVEN OBEDIENCE TO GOD IS NOT NECESSARY FOR SALVATION SINCE "ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED?

IF SANCTIFICATION IS NOT A PART OF SALVATION...
WHY WAIT FOR A SAVIOR?
(hebrews 5:7-9)

IF OBEDIENCE IS NOT A PART OF SALVATION...
HERE'S WHAT THE "WORD OF TRUTH", "THE GOSPEL OF OUR SALVATION" TEACHES US...


aRevelation 3:1-3 To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but YOU ARE DEAD. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I HAVE NOT FOUND YOUR DEEDS COMPLETE in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have RECEIVED and HEARD; OBEY IT, AND REPENT. But if you do not WAKE UP, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.


Ephesians 5:6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things GOD'S WRATH COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT.

Prophesy to me VCO, do you want greater rewards in heaven? then let me persecute you, so you can have more rewards in heaven

Yes, we do not work to earn salvation, being born again.
We do not gain salvation, being born again, by keeping the works of the law
We are not rewarded salvation, being born again in exchange for doing a certain amount of good works.


However we must obey the Gospel, in order to be born again.


But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:16-17

• But they have not all obeyed the gospel

again


in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Thessalonians 1:8

• on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

This is the law of faith.

James explains -

• by works faith was made complete [perfect]

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
James 2:21-22

• Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac

The "works" James is describing is the work or action of obedience.


Not the works of the law
Not good works
Not works that earn a wage


The work here that James is referring to is the work of obedience.


Works = The effort obedience requires.


James says that faith without this corresponding action of obedience, is dormant; inactive.


Just like a body without the spirit is dead, so faith without this obedience is dead, and is unable to produce the intended divine result.


For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26


So the component of the Gospel that activates the faith we receive by hearing it, is for us to obey the Gospel.


in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Thessalonians 1:8

• on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

JPT

Here's an interesting Scripture:

Galatians 2:14 But when I saw that their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, “If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews?”

It appears even the Jews at the time were living like Gentiles. Yet today we have many who are still trying to go back living like Jews.

It is simple when you understand the principle of faith.


This principle of the obedience of faith in the contextual foundation of the entire book of Romans, both beginning and ending with this principle or law of faith.


Here is Paul's closing statement, which sums up everything he taught in the book of Romans.

• the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith

26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: 27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen. Romans 16:26-27



Paul begins his letter to the Romans with this opening statement -


Paul, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated to the gospel of God 2 which He promised before through His prophets in the Holy Scriptures, 3 concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, 4 and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead. 5 Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name. Romans 1:1-5

• we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name

Paul was "sent" as an apostle to establish all nations in the obedience of faith, which means to bring the world in submission to Jesus Christ as Lord.


Faith without the corresponding action or "work" of obedience is dead.



If you know what the Gospel of the kingdom is, you will understand what this means.




JPT

Was not according to the truth.

Walking in the truth is walking in Love: Loving God, by obeying His commandment to love our neighbor as ourself.

• this is love, that we walk according to His commandments.

4 I rejoiced greatly that I have found some of your children walking in truth, as we received commandment from the Father. 5 And now I plead with you, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment to you, but that which we have had from the beginning: that we love one another. 6 This is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it. 2 John 4-6




6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:6-7

• He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. 1 John 2:3-6




My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. 1 John 3:18




JPT

I noticed you didn't address the Scripture that says we no longer live like Jews?

In regards to Romans 1:5 and Romans 16:26, although Paul can speak of people’s initial response of choosing to believe the gospel as an act of obedience, in which he describes it as "obeying the gospel" (Romans 10:16; 1:16), the purpose of Paul’s apostleship was not merely to bring people to conversion but also to bring about transformed lives that were obedient to God.

*Notice that Paul said they HAVE (already) received grace and apostleship FOR/UNTO obedience to the faith. Just as in Ephesians 2:10, Paul said that we are created in Christ Jesus FOR/UNTO good works. We are clearly saved FOR good works, NOT BY good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). Paul did not say that they did not receive grace and apostleship until they produced obedience afterwards. We have access by faith into grace.. Romans 5:2 not faith "and obedience/works." We are saved by grace through faith in Christ first, then "unto" obedience/works.

You continue to put the cart before the horse and teach salvation by faith "plus obedience/works."

Nice twist...too bad you don't really believe that...you have already stated your Jesus cannot keep someone saved and it is a losable position...so...NO matter how many times you may say the above...your dogma belies a different story.....!

Which means that NONE of those that ever lost so-called faith, did not even have enough faith to be BORN AGAIN.
Which means, even the Demons have that much FAITH.

John 3:2-7 (NKJV)
2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, "Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher
come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him."
3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again,
he cannot see the kingdom of God."
4 Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time
into his mother's womb and be born?"
5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water
and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'


THAT SCRIPTURE MAKES THIS ONE EQUALLY TRUE.


1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us;
for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us.
However, they went out so that it might be made clear that
none of them belongs to us.


You do not believe that True Believers, NO ONE WILL EVER BE LOST?

Look at the JEWEL that I found a few months ago:


2 John 1:2 (HCSB)
because of the truth that remains in us and will be with us forever.


AND THEN THERE IS THIS:


1 Peter 1:3-5 (NASB)
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy
has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

YOU ARE TRULY CONFUSED, and have FALLEN FOR A FALSE TEACHER.

VCO said:

2 John 1:2 (HCSB)

Click to expand...

Love this one. I haven't seen this before, thank you.

I want to restate the following...the following truths must be denied and rejected to teach a false losable salvation.....so...for those who teach it can be forfeit, lost, given up or walked away from...YOU MUST yank the following truths from your perforated bible....!!!!!!!

Saves to the uttermost
Gives the IRREVOCABLE gift of ETERNAL life NOT temporal
Mine Initiates, Finishes and Completes the work of faith he BEGINS
Mine leaves the 99 to find the "SHEEP" that wanders away <--not goat
Mine seals me UNTO the day of redemption
MINE KEEPS me by HIS power through FAITH "SEE above INITIATED FAITH"
MINE states NOTHING can separate me FROM his LOVE
MINE Has GRACE that OUTBOUNDS my sins and preemptively covers me
MINE said that when he sees the BLOOD he will pass over me
MINE has taken ALL my sin and imputed HIS righteouness by faith "SEE above INITIATED FAITH"
MINE justifies me by HIS FAITH
MINE said that even if we believe NOT after belief HE abides FAITHFUL because he cannot deny himself
MINE has me in HIS hand and in the HEAVENLY FATHER's HAND and NO man can yank me from that position
MINE Justifies e eternally
MINE Sanctifies me ETERNALLY