Not By Works

I didn’t say anything about being a benchwarmer. Obedience is a manifestation of genuine belief/faith. It’s not about we must do good works in order to become saved but that we will do good works if we truly are saved

Yes I apologize. I thought I was talking to the same person in all these posts. Sorry thought was just caring on a conversation. I apologize mailmandan. Been awhile since I've been on here😳 (embarrassed)

5...,

Sorry...mistake......ground. (symbolic of...listen to current info).

So we can say that if one is not obedient to what Jesus taught us, you are not going to be saved, because you were never saved in the first place?

If you are not obedient, then you are not manifesting a genuine belief/faith, right? And if you do not manifest this belief/faith, you were never saved in the first place.

So long way around, if you do not manifest good works, you are not manifesting your belief/faith, so you were never saved in the first place, and you will not be saved in the future.

You are right, if you are a believer you guard, observe (do good works), and watch over Jesus's commandments. Observe does not mean to just look on. In this case observe means to be in the thick of the action, IOW doing not just hearing the commandments.

So if you are a believer, you will be doing these things. If you are not a believer, you will not be doing these things.

How many Christians in your congregation can you say are guarding, observing, and watching over Jesus's commandments?

Faith-n-Christ said:

You will know them by their fruits. I'm sorry but you can't just sit on your rump and do nothing. Salvation came at a cost.

Click to expand...

Your are TOTALLY WRONG, about it not being free.

NO ONE HERE THAT I KNOW OF BELIEVES IN "just sit on your rump", so PLEASE get off your high horse. Salvation is a FREE GIFT, that produces in the Believer, LOVE FOR GOD.


Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
5 This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.


Obedience is BECAUSE we LOVE HIM, and it has NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION. In fact, everything we do for the LORD is solely because WE LOVE HIM. We do not EARN SALVATION, but because of that FREE GIFT, the Holy Spirit will come into our hearts, birth our once dead Human Spirit into eternal life, and POUR GOD's LOVE into our hearts. That LOVE Produces a Change in our Human Spirit, that will want to what pleases HIM, out of LOVE, the Love for HIM and Love for Others. Even that Change, is a Work of the HOLY SPIRIT in our Hearts, so therefore you do not get to PAT YOURSELF on the Back.

Look how many TIMES LOVE is Mention in this portion of Scripture, I has nothing to do with SALVATION.


1 John 3:14-19 (HCSB)
14 We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death.
15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.
16 This is how we have come to know love: He laid down His life for us. We should also lay down our lives for our brothers.
17 If anyone has this world’s goods and sees his brother in need but closes his eyes to his ⌊need⌋—how can God’s love reside in him?
18 Little children, we must not love with word or speech, but with truth and action.
19 This is how we will know we belong to the truth and will convince our conscience in His presence,


TRULY, Obedience is PART OF LOVE, and never has been part of SALVATION, which is a FREE GIFT.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (HCSB)
8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift—
9 not from works, so that no one can boast.

Romans 5:5-11 (HCSB)
5 This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
6 For while we were still helpless, at the appointed moment, Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For rarely will someone die for a just person—though for a good person perhaps someone might even dare to die.
8 But God proves His own love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us!
9 Much more then, since we have now been declared righteous by His blood, we will be saved through Him from wrath.
10 For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, ⌊then how⌋ much more, having been reconciled, will we be saved by His life!
11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ. We have now received this reconciliation through Him.

John 4:10 (NCV)
10 Jesus said, “If you only knew the free gift of God and who it is that is asking you for water, you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water.“

Acts 15:11 (TLB)
11 Don’t you believe that all are saved the same way, by the free gift of the Lord Jesus?"

Romans 5:15 (ASV)
15 But not as the trespass, so also is the free gift. For if by the trespass of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God, and the gift by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abound unto the many.


GRACE = Receiving what you do not deserve and cannot earn.

MERCY = NOT receiving what you do deserve, eternity in hell.


Romans 5:17 (NRSV)
17 If, because of the one man's trespass, death exercised dominion through that one, much more surely will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness exercise dominion in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.

Romans 6:23 (ASV)
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 3:23-24 (NJB)
23 No distinction is made: all have sinned and lack God's glory,
24 and all are justified by the free gift of his grace through being set free in Christ Jesus.

Romans 4:16 (NJB)
16 That is why the promise is to faith, so that it comes as a free gift and is secure for all the descendants, not only those who rely on the Law but all those others who rely on the faith of Abraham, the ancestor of us all

Ephesians 1:6 (NJB)
6 to the praise of the glory of his grace, his free gift to us in the Beloved,


Revelation 22:17 (NCV)
17 The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!“ Let the one who hears this say, “Come!“ Let whoever is thirsty come; whoever wishes may have the water of life as a free gift.



A GIFT IS NOT FREE IF YOU HAD TO DO SOMETHING TO PAY FOR IT.


Romans 4:4-5 (HCSB)
4 Now to the one who works, pay is not considered as a gift, but as something owed.
5 But to the one who does not work, but believes on Him who declares the ungodly to be righteous, his faith is credited for righteousness.

According to John, all genuine Christians (1 John 2:3-4) in contrast to those who merely “say” they keep His commandments. It’s not up to me to judge everyone in my congregation and it’s not hard to find make believers mixed in with genuine believers in various congregations.

For starters I am not on a high horse. Secondly you took one quote of many that I thought was one continual conversations. (Not several different conversations). Yes it is a gift to us, but again it came at a price. Jesus died for that gift. A hefty price was paid.
So please tell me my friend. Everything Jesus tells us is knoll and void. Because Paul tries to explain the gift. No, no one can ever earn that gift. We are all vial creatures. Sinful in nature. If you read all my comments you would have seen these statements. But there is a huge difference in vipers (the Pharisees, bench warmers) who do a whole lot of talking, verses doers of the word. Again I never said I could earn my salvation. I am saved because Jesus Christ paid the debt with his life. Therefore I give him mine.
Have a blessed day.

No one here respects your "assessment/judgement." Nothing new just modern day Phariseeism.

Matthew23:2
"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.

James4:12
. There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to save and to destroy; but who are you who judge your neighbor?

None of the good works we do will get us saved, or keep or maintain that salvation. We do them out of obedience and as a by-product of faith.. Nor will good works get us into heaven..

Senioritus Bites Again.

That Sentence should read:

Look how many TIMES LOVE is Mention in this portion of Scripture, It {Obedience} has nothing to do with SALVATION.

I apologize that I took it the wrong way.

But The FREE GIFT TO US still STANDS.

However, do you KNOW THE REST OF THE STORY:

John 10:17-18 (HCSB)
17 This is why the Father loves Me, because I am laying down My life so I may take it up again.
18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down on My own. I have the right to lay it down, and I have the right to take it up again. I have received this command from My Father.”

The ROMANS and the JEWS did not KILL JESUS, he laid HIS life down. It NORMALLY took about 3 - 4 days to die on the Cross, and the Romans were shocked that HE was dead after only a few hours. Now here is the REST OF THE STORY beyond the sin debt you mentioned. It was ALSO THE BRIDE PRICE that the FATHER had chosen to Redeem the Bride!

Genesis 34:12 (ESV)
12 Ask me for as great a bride price and gift as you will, and I will give whatever you say to me. Only give me the young woman to be my wife.”

John 14:12 I tell you the truth, ANYONE WHO HAS FAITH IN ME WILL DO WHAT I HAVE BEEN DOING. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

DO OSASERS DO WHAT JESUS HAS BEEN DOING?

DO THEY DO EXACTLY WHAT GOD COMMANDED THEM TO DO?

John 14:31 but the world must learn that I love the Father and that I do exactly what my Father has commanded me....

DO THEY TEACH OBEDIENCE TO GOD AND CHRIST'S TEACHINGS AND COMMANDS?

Matthew 28:19-20 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and TEACHING THEM TO OBEY everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Matthew 19:17-19 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. IF YOU WANT TO ENTER LIFE, OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS.” “Which ones?” the man inquired. Jesus replied, “‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’”

OR DO THEY REJECT GOD'S WORDS, LAWS AND COMMANDS AND CHRIST'S TEACHINGS, TO HOLD ON TO FALSE MANMADE DOCTRINES SUCH AS "OSAS AND FAS"?

Mark 7:6-13 He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.’ You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.” And he said to them: “YYOU HAVE A FINE WAY OF SETTING ASIDE THE COMMANDS OF GOD in order to observe your own traditions! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban’ (that is, a gift devoted to God), then YOU NO LONGER LET HIM DO ANYTHING for his father or mother. Thus YOU NULLIFY THE WORD OF GOD by your tradition that you have handed down. And YOU DO MANY THINGS LIKE THAT.”

DO THEY NOT CHANGE THE GRACE OF GOD INTO A LICENSE FOR IMMORALITY BY SAYING THAT OBEDIENCE TO GOD IS NOT PART OF SALVATION AND THAT "FAITH ALONE SAVES" AND THAT "ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED"?

DID THE HOLY SPIRIT THEY CLAIM TO HAVE RECEIVED TEACH THEM NOT TO WORK OUT THEIR SALVATION?

DID THE HOLY SPIRIT LEAD THEM TO JUST CLAIM TO HAVE "FAITH ALONE" AND DO NOTHING TO BE SAVED?

IF OBEĎIENCE IS NOT PART OF SALVATION, WILL THEIR DISOBEDIENCE SAVE THEM?

WILL THEIR "FAITH ALONE" VOID OF GOOD OR RIGHTEOUS WORKS (WHICH NO ONE CAN DO WITHOÙT THE HOLY SPIŔIT galatians 3:14), SAVÈ THEM FROM GOD'S WRATH?

ephesians 5:6
6Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Jude 1:4 For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, WHO CHANGE THE GRAÇE OF OUR GOD INTO A LICENSE FOR IMMORALITY and DENY Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

titus 1:16
16They profess that they know God; BUT IN WORKS THEY DENY HIM, being abominable, and DISOBEDIENT, and unto every good work REPROBATE.

"FAITH ALONE" VOID OF WORKS IS A DEAD FAITH THAT CANNOT SAVE AND WHILE GOD WILL HAVE MERCY AND COMPASSION ON WHOEVER HE ÇHOSE TO GIVE THEM BECAUSE HE IS GOD, CAN'T HE CUT OFF THE DEAD BRANCHES AND TAKE ÀWAY FROM THEM WHAT HE HAS FREELY GIVEÑ AND ENTRUSTED UNTO THEM ?

Matthew 25:24-30 “Then the man who had received the one talent came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. So I was afraid and went out and hid your talent in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.’ “His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest. “‘Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents. For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

romans 11:19-22
19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. BE NOT HIGHMINĎED BUT FEAR: 21for if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest HE ALSO SPÀRE NOT THEE. 22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF THOU COÑTINUE in his goodness: otherwise THOU ALSO SHALT BE CUT OFF.

Not disagreeing with you - I just think you could choose better words

what about - "We do them because of God's love working in our heart and as a real visible extension of our faith in God."

me: I have no love for God
God: I have plenty of love for you, want me to share some with you
me: sure

Hi E-g, I always wait for the big, "However or but", we must do this and do that. And tell me what true Christian do you know who's only desire is to be a "bench warmer", there are none.

Their false assumption of their imagination is only there to support their twisted fake gospel that no one believes any way. It's called a "Gospel of Grace" not a "Gospel of Works", for a good reason, "boasting is not allowed."

Grace and Peace unto you bro....

OSAS AND FAS ARE FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINES THAT PROMOTES DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD AND REJECTS AND NULLIFIES GOD'S WORDS AND COMMANDS. (mark 7:6-13, Isaiah 5:20-24)

SO DO NOT LET ANYONE DECEIVE YOU...FOR THE WRATH OF GOD COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT.(Ephesians 5:6)

OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST WHO IS THE SOURCE OF ETERNAL LIFE FOR THOSE WHO OBEY HIM (Hebrews 5:8-9) SAID:

Revelation 3:1-3 To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I HAVE NOT FOUND YOUR DEEDS COMPLETE in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have RECEIVED and HEARD ; OBEY IT and REPENT. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

JESUS HAVE NOT FOUND THEIR DEEDS "COMPLETE" IN THE EYES OF GOD.

THEN HE TOLD THEM TO "OBEY" WHAT THEY RECEIVED AND HEARD AND TO REPENT.

JESUS WAS SPEAKING HERE TO ONE OF THE SEVEN CHURCHES AND WE KNOW THAT THE "CHURCH" IS THE BODY OF CHRIST WHOM HE WILL SAVE. (eph 5:23)

WHY WILL HE SAY THAT THEIR DEEDS ARE NOT COMPLETE IF WORKS ARE NOT NECESSARY FOR SALVATION AND THAT "FAITH ALONE" SAVES?

WHY WOULD JESUS COMMAND THEM TO OBEY AND REPENT IF IT
IS NO LONGER NECESSARY SINCE THEY ARE SAVED ETERNALLY? (OSAS)

IS JESUS IGNORANT OF THIS DOCTRINE OR IS IT CONTRARY TO HIS TEACHINGS AND COMMANDS AND THEREFORE ARE JUST FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINE THAT NULLIFIES GOD'S WORDS?

JESUS AND HIS FATHER REQUIRE SOME WORKS TO BE COMPLETED AND ASKED FOR OBEDIENCE AND REPENTANCE.

Romans 8:4 in order that the righteous REQUIREMENTS of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.

Malachi 3:14 “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by CARRYING OUT HIS REQUIREMENTS and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty?

GOD REQUIRES OBEDIENCE AND REPENTANCE IN OUR PART OTHERWISE HIS WRATH WILL COME ON THOSE WHO ARE "DISOBEDIENT".(eph 5:6 )

Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?

John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.

2 John 1:6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.

DO NOT BE DECEIVED... GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED...WE REAP WHAT WE SOW...(Galatians 6:7-10)

NOW IF FAITH ALONE SAVES AND ONCE SAVED, YOU ARE ALWAYS SAVED, DOES THIS PASSAGE BELOW CONTRADICT THESE FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINE OR DO YOU REJECT IT OR TWIST IT TO MEAN SOMETHING ELSE THAT WOULD FIT YOUR DOCTRINE?

Matthew 24:9-14 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time MANY WILL TURN AWAY FROM THE FAITH and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, THE LOVE OF MOST WILL GROW COLD, but HE WHO STANDS FIRM TO THE END WILL BE SAVED . And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

MANY WHO HAS FAITH WILL TURN AWAY FROM THEIR FAITH.

ARE THEY STILL SAVED AFTER TURNING AWAY FROM THEIR FAITH(ALONE)?

DO YOU MOCK GOD AND REJECT THESE VERSES BELOW?

Galatians 6:7-10 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature WILL REAP DESTRUCTION; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit WILL REAP ETERNAL LIFE. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

James 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD..

"LET GOD BE TRUE..." (Romans 3:3-4)

it's like having one leg on one side of the fence, and other on the Lords pasture's. Neither hot nor cold, and guess what, you can't think you could do what your flesh want's retaliate, and avenge your flesh, that's not scriptural, it says leave room for the lord for vengeance is mine, sayest the Lord. It's what REv. says matters, if your going to be either hot nor cold, I will spew you out of my mouth. Time for games to stop.

for work-salvationist, how about believe in karma, maybe we can go to federal prison for 20 years (mr officer, I did nothing wrong, but can you just make up random charges for me, it's for karma), then that will force karma to give us 20 years of "good luck" that came from what we worked to purchase, and should we ignore the free gift of grace from God?

may we be thankful that we are saved by grace and not by works