Not By Works

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Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
54
48
it's like having one leg on one side of the fence, and other on the Lords pasture's. Neither hot nor cold, and guess what, you can't think you could do what your flesh want's retaliate, and avenge your flesh, that's not scriptural, it says leave room for the lord for vengeance is mine, sayest the Lord. It's what REv. says matters, if your going to be either hot nor cold, I will spew you out of my mouth. Time for games to stop.
IF YOU ARE A JEW WHOSE RIGHTEOUSNESS IS THROUGH THE LAW IT IS "NOT BY WORKS".(ephesians 2:8-deuteronomy 6:24-25)




WHETHER YOU'RE A GENTILE OR A JEW, IF YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS IS THROUGH FAITH , YOU ARE;


...God's workmanship created in
Christ Jesus TO DO GOOD WORKS which He has PREPARED IN ADVANCE FOR US TO DO . ( ephesians 2:10)

James 2 : 26
26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

Click to expand...

AND HOW DO WE KNOW WHO ARE THE LIARS AND DECEIVERS?
? ? ??? ??

1 John 2 : 3-5
3 We know that we have come to know him IF WE. OBEY HIS COMMANDS
4 The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM
5 But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him:

2 John 1 : 6-11
6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.
7 Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.
8 Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully.
9ANYONE WHO RUNS AHEAD AND DOES NOT CONTINUE IN THE TEACHING OF CHRIST does not have God: whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him.
11 Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.



John 8 : 43-47
43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say.
44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for THERE IS NO TRUTH IN HI. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me!
46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me?
47H E WHO BELONGS TO GOD HEARS WHAT GOD SAY. The reason you do not hear is that you don't belong to God."

John 7 : 18
18 He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself, but he who works for the honor of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him.


1 Corinthians 6:16-20 Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.” But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit. Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.

DO NOT GRIEVE THE HOLY SPIRIT WHO IS IN YOU...

Galatians 2:20-21 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”

Jude 1:3-4 The Sin and Doom of Godless Men Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints. For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, WHO CHANGE THE GRACE OF OUR GOD INTO A LICENSE FOR IMMORALITY and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

Titus 1:15-16 To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted. They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good.

James 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
54
48
1 Corinthians 5:11-13 But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked man from among you.”

WHY ARE WE COMMANDED TO EXPEL A WICKED MAN FROM AMONG US IF OUR WORKS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION?

Galatians 6:7-10 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
54
48
1 Corinthians 5:11-13 But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked man from among you.”

WHY ARE WE COMMANDED TO EXPEL A WICKED MAN FROM AMONG US IF OUR WORKS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION?

Galatians 6:7-10 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.
Ephesians 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior.

OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST IS THE SAVIOR OF HIS BODY WHICH IS THE CHURCH WHO ARE EAGERLY AWAITING FOR HIM.

Hebrews 9:27-28 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Ephesians 1:4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love

Hebrews 12:14 Warning Against Refusing God Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.

1 Peter 1:13-16 be holy Therefore, prepare your minds for action; be self-controlled; set your hope fully on the grace to be given you when Jesus Christ is revealed. As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; for it is written: “be holy, because I am holy.”
 
May 20, 2018
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I have a cousin who is a believer for decades and very active in the church and loving. He (by my human standards and opinion) is a good example of displaying good faith and the love of God.
He had an infection in his spine, and when they did surgery things went awry (long story). He is now paralyzed from the neck down and has to have someone do everything for him 24/7.
He is miserable because he is unable to do the things he did for others and the church. He is always trying to come up with some way he can manipulate situations so he can be part of or get credited for doing the work of the Lord (good works). He is imprisioned more by his inability to conquer good works than the actual paralyzation.
This brings up a question that if someone is unable to do good works through physical circumstances, how are they able to show their faith and display obedience? How can their faith remain alive without the ability to do works? What is the "status-quo" foe each individual's works? And how can they enjoy the freedom of saving grace when they are busy laboring over obtaining a paycheck to buy their way into heaven? My cousin is an extreme example of the prison of false doctrine and lies of the devil, and you can see the love and peace fading in him because of the lack of his ability to achieve his expected satisfying level of self righteousness.
Repent (to feel bad about your sins) and believe....THE TRUTH. Too many people believe Christ was the sacrificial lamb of God, but do not believe in the power of his blood by his sacrificial death.
There is nothing new or esoteric in the general teachings of Christ (save his declaration of his deity). His teachings are not that of some new or higher religious teacher. Christs' teachings are that of classic Judaism (especially of the Psalms).
Christ was not declared to be the son of God because of his teachings, nor his sacred virgin birth, nor his atoning sacrificial death. Christ was declared to be the son of God with authority over all things by his resurrection.
Christ was sent to do the will of God. To give his eternal life.
BEHOLD! THE LAMB OF GOD WHO TAKETH AWAY THE SINS OF THE WORLD...
I always thought that was such a powerful and profound statement of the love and extended grace of God...until this legalisti read to me the fine print afterwards that I had been overlooking he read ...for all those who labor and obey the commandments of God, and those who run from deed to deed fulfilling their duty to do good works to prove their faith.
So now I go door to door finding the widows and fatherless and do work for free and give them all I am able. I have had the cops called on me for loitering because I was hanging out in front of a grocery story offering to help carry and load grocery bags for the elderly.. I was robbed at knifepoint in my vehicle for stopping to give a man a ride when it was storming bad because I didn't want to grieve the spirit because Jesus would want me to do it......But hey, rain or shine, my back is bent and sweat shakes my brow because I ain't losing my spot in the Kingdom!,
"Dear Heavenly Father, thank you for sending your son to tell me what I must do to obtain eternal life. I appreciate you sounding the starting gun and making me spiritually alive. Now if you would please step aside while I get busy doing all I must do to prove my worth. Let me show you how it's done. Don't worry about me, for my self righteousness will reassure me that I am a conqueror. If I need you here and there, I'll let you know. Thanks for slaughtering your son to start what I must finish now. Amen"
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Hi E-g, I always wait for the big, "However or but", we must do this and do that. And tell me what true Christian do you know who's only desire is to be a "bench warmer", there are none.

Their false assumption of their imagination is only there to support their twisted fake gospel that no one believes any way. It's called a "Gospel of Grace" not a "Gospel of Works", for a good reason, "boasting is not allowed."

Grace and Peace unto you bro....:)
I believe it allows them to have some peace with their decision, thats also why the law is watered down, and they always speak of only a few sins.

The truth would terrify them if they truly understood it.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,667
9,386
113
Not disagreeing with you - I just think you could choose better words

what about - "We do them because of God's love working in our heart and as a real visible extension of our faith in God."
True.. and I've said precisely that ^^ many many times. :)
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
503
113
55
HBG. Pa. USA
Hebrews 9:27-28 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ

was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time,

not to bear sin, but TO BRING SALVATION to those who are WAITING for him.
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will IN no wise be in my remembrance. In that he saith, A new covenant (Not in Tables of Stone or written with ink but in the fleshly tables of the heart; a new ministration. The Body of Christ the Temple of GOD), he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience (the inner man; who we are) from dead works Sin; acts that cause death) to serve the living God? And for this cause ( a new heart and mind to Serve the LIVING GOD) he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. Eternal life; to know GOD and Jesus Christ to whom HE sent.
(Heb 8:10-9:15)
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,260
113
I have a cousin who is a believer for decades and very active in the church and loving. He (by my human standards and opinion) is a good example of displaying good faith and the love of God.
He had an infection in his spine, and when they did surgery things went awry (long story). He is now paralyzed from the neck down and has to have someone do everything for him 24/7.
He is miserable because he is unable to do the things he did for others and the church. He is always trying to come up with some way he can manipulate situations so he can be part of or get credited for doing the work of the Lord (good works). He is imprisioned more by his inability to conquer good works than the actual paralyzation.
This brings up a question that if someone is unable to do good works through physical circumstances, how are they able to show their faith and display obedience? How can their faith remain alive without the ability to do works? What is the "status-quo" foe each individual's works? And how can they enjoy the freedom of saving grace when they are busy laboring over obtaining a paycheck to buy their way into heaven? My cousin is an extreme example of the prison of false doctrine and lies of the devil, and you can see the love and peace fading in him because of the lack of his ability to achieve his expected satisfying level of self righteousness.
Repent (to feel bad about your sins) and believe....THE TRUTH. Too many people believe Christ was the sacrificial lamb of God, but do not believe in the power of his blood by his sacrificial death.
There is nothing new or esoteric in the general teachings of Christ (save his declaration of his deity). His teachings are not that of some new or higher religious teacher. Christs' teachings are that of classic Judaism (especially of the Psalms).
Christ was not declared to be the son of God because of his teachings, nor his sacred virgin birth, nor his atoning sacrificial death. Christ was declared to be the son of God with authority over all things by his resurrection.
Christ was sent to do the will of God. To give his eternal life.
BEHOLD! THE LAMB OF GOD WHO TAKETH AWAY THE SINS OF THE WORLD...
I always thought that was such a powerful and profound statement of the love and extended grace of God...until this legalisti read to me the fine print afterwards that I had been overlooking he read ...for all those who labor and obey the commandments of God, and those who run from deed to deed fulfilling their duty to do good works to prove their faith.
So now I go door to door finding the widows and fatherless and do work for free and give them all I am able. I have had the cops called on me for loitering because I was hanging out in front of a grocery story offering to help carry and load grocery bags for the elderly.. I was robbed at knifepoint in my vehicle for stopping to give a man a ride when it was storming bad because I didn't want to grieve the spirit because Jesus would want me to do it......But hey, rain or shine, my back is bent and sweat shakes my brow because I ain't losing my spot in the Kingdom!,
"Dear Heavenly Father, thank you for sending your son to tell me what I must do to obtain eternal life. I appreciate you sounding the starting gun and making me spiritually alive. Now if you would please step aside while I get busy doing all I must do to prove my worth. Let me show you how it's done. Don't worry about me, for my self righteousness will reassure me that I am a conqueror. If I need you here and there, I'll let you know. Thanks for slaughtering your son to start what I must finish now. Amen"
Hi 50C1AL0N3,
Remember Joni Eareckson Tada, amazing testimony of a true Christian who is paralyzed from the neck down. Her story is she was so prideful that God had to use a diving accident in the Chesapeake Bay to turn her life around. That was 50yrs ago last year.

Today she paints beautiful Christmas cards using a pencil held between her teeth. Inside are bible verses to help people find Jesus. Very sorry about your brothers current circumstance a terrible thing to happen.

My wife stopped at an intersection to give a guy some loose change and he pulled a knife on her, stole her purse and the motor cycle she was riding. Bless her heart, she still wants to help the poor street folks who ran into bad luck.

God bless!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, Hebrews 5:9



JPT
Yep.and this is not pushing a works based lie....we hear the gospel, we believe the gospel and we place oursleves UNDER the gospel.......the word obey <--place under authority by the word.....it does not mean salvation is EARNED
Who are you to pass judgment on me and the other wonderful Christians on this thread. Pure arrogance in real time. The last thing God wants to do is raise up a bunch of prideful, self-righteous, would be Pharisees, because we all know where that road leads. There is now, "no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus", our Lord and Savior.

Romans8:33
Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies.

Romans14:4
Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Exactly.....he and the others like him devalue and dethrone Jesus while enthroning self.....their self adulation and vanilla twist gospel of works/law keeping saves no one and if anything makes one two fold the child of hell....same garbage the Pharisees peddled with the same result....nothing but Cainology.....!!
 
Oct 31, 2015
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Yep.and this is not pushing a works based lie....we hear the gospel, we believe the gospel and we place oursleves UNDER the gospel.......the word obey <--place under authority by the word.....it does not mean salvation is EARNED

Of course Salvation can not be earned.

We are helpless and in bondage to the sin that dwells in our carnal nature, with Satan as our lord and master, as a sinner; unbeliever.


It is through God's great mercy and love for us that He calls us to repent; to turn to Him, by turning away from Satan as out lord.


  • Here is the Gospel message that Jesus Himself taught to Paul on the road to Damascus -

  • to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins


16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. 17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’

19 “Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, 20 but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:16-20


Here is the Gospel message that Paul tells king Agrippa that he proclaims -


  • but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.


If we turn away from Satan as lord, by confessing Jesus as Lord, then as our Lord, we are to obey Him, if we believe the Gopel.



Could you tell us in your own words, why a born again Christian who is empowered by the Spirit of God, would want to disobey God, in which they show hatred toward God by not obeying His commandments?


For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3


  • this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments.


His Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, empowers us to walk in the truth, and obey the truth, and speak the truth, which is loving God and loving our neighbor.


His word, His message, His doctrine is about love: Loving God, and loving His children.



  • “If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15



He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.” John 14:21

  • He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me.



Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. John 14:23

  • If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word;

He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.
John 14:23

  • He who does not love Me does not keep My words


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 1 John 2:4-5



If we steal from our brother, is that love or hate?

If we covet our brothers things, is that love or hate?

If we commit adultery with our brother wife, is that love or hate?


20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 1 John 4:20




JPT
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
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Your are TOTALLY WRONG, about it not being free.

NO ONE HERE THAT I KNOW OF BELIEVES IN "just sit on your rump", so PLEASE get off your high horse. Salvation is a FREE GIFT, that produces in the Believer, LOVE FOR GOD.


Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
5 This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.


Obedience is BECAUSE we LOVE HIM, and it has NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION. In fact, everything we do for the LORD is solely because WE LOVE HIM. We do not EARN SALVATION, but because of that FREE GIFT, the Holy Spirit will come into our hearts, birth our once dead Human Spirit into eternal life, and POUR GOD's LOVE into our hearts. That LOVE Produces a Change in our Human Spirit, that will want to what pleases HIM, out of LOVE, the Love for HIM and Love for Others. Even that Change, is a Work of the HOLY SPIRIT in our Hearts, so therefore you do not get to PAT YOURSELF on the Back.

Look how many TIMES LOVE is Mention in this portion of Scripture, I has nothing to do with SALVATION.


1 John 3:14-19 (HCSB)
14 We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death.
15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.
16 This is how we have come to know love: He laid down His life for us. We should also lay down our lives for our brothers.
17 If anyone has this world’s goods and sees his brother in need but closes his eyes to his ⌊need⌋—how can God’s love reside in him?
18 Little children, we must not love with word or speech, but with truth and action.
19 This is how we will know we belong to the truth and will convince our conscience in His presence,


TRULY, Obedience is PART OF LOVE, and never has been part of SALVATION, which is a FREE GIFT.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (HCSB)
8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift
9 not from works, so that no one can boast.

Romans 5:5-11 (HCSB)
5 This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
6 For while we were still helpless, at the appointed moment, Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For rarely will someone die for a just person—though for a good person perhaps someone might even dare to die.
8 But God proves His own love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us!
9 Much more then, since we have now been declared righteous by His blood, we will be saved through Him from wrath.
10 For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, ⌊then how⌋ much more, having been reconciled, will we be saved by His life!
11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ. We have now received this reconciliation through Him.

John 4:10 (NCV)
10 Jesus said, “If you only knew the free gift of God and who it is that is asking you for water, you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water.“

Acts 15:11 (TLB)
11 Don’t you believe that all are saved the same way, by the free gift of the Lord Jesus?"

Romans 5:15 (ASV)
15 But not as the trespass, so also is the free gift. For if by the trespass of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God, and the gift by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abound unto the many.


GRACE = Receiving what you do not deserve and cannot earn.

MERCY = NOT receiving what you do deserve, eternity in hell.


Romans 5:17 (NRSV)
17 If, because of the one man's trespass, death exercised dominion through that one, much more surely will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness exercise dominion in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.

Romans 6:23 (ASV)
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 3:23-24 (NJB)
23 No distinction is made: all have sinned and lack God's glory,
24 and all are justified by the free gift of his grace through being set free in Christ Jesus.

Romans 4:16 (NJB)
16 That is why the promise is to faith, so that it comes as a free gift and is secure for all the descendants, not only those who rely on the Law but all those others who rely on the faith of Abraham, the ancestor of us all

Ephesians 1:6 (NJB)
6 to the praise of the glory of his grace, his free gift to us in the Beloved,


Revelation 22:17 (NCV)
17 The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!“ Let the one who hears this say, “Come!“ Let whoever is thirsty come; whoever wishes may have the water of life as a free gift.



A GIFT IS NOT FREE IF YOU HAD TO DO SOMETHING TO PAY FOR IT.


Romans 4:4-5 (HCSB)
4 Now to the one who works, pay is not considered as a gift, but as something owed.
5 But to the one who does not work, but believes on Him who declares the ungodly to be righteous, his faith is credited for righteousness.
You can quote me all the scriptures you can to try to prove that love is not part of salvation, and it does not affect me, because for every scripture that you quote about love not being about salvation, I will quote you 2 that proves it is part of salvation.

Then there is the idea of just common sense, which says if you have not love in your heart you have nothing. Nothing includes salvation.

The other common sense idea if love is not part of salvation is this: I can be saved, but I don't have love in my heart, but so what, I am still saved and I will still live with God and Jesus Christ forever in their Kingdom.

Bottom line, love has to be part of the saving process.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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According to John, all genuine Christians (1 John 2:3-4) in contrast to those who merely “say” they keep His commandments. It’s not up to me to judge everyone in my congregation and it’s not hard to find make believers mixed in with genuine believers in various congregations.
We are not to judge. But in my congregation we will find many make believers. Ask them to do anything for the church, like teach a class or help with a luncheon, or help a brother or sister with their yard because they are old and unhealthy is like asking them to go and sell all and give to the poor. It is a sad situation.

But them there are those that are practically glowing as they do work for the Lord, and you know without judging which of the 2 are saved.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
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for work-salvationist, how about believe in karma, maybe we can go to federal prison for 20 years (mr officer, I did nothing wrong, but can you just make up random charges for me, it's for karma), then that will force karma to give us 20 years of "good luck" that came from what we worked to purchase, and should we ignore the free gift of grace from God?

may we be thankful that we are saved by grace and not by works
If you do not do good works, you will not be saved. Always remember that good works is a sign that you are saved. Good works does not save you, but if the sign is not given, then God will know you were never saved in the first place and your position is make believe.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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You can quote me all the scriptures you can to try to prove that love is not part of salvation, and it does not affect me, because for every scripture that you quote about love not being about salvation, I will quote you 2 that proves it is part of salvation.

Then there is the idea of just common sense, which says if you have not love in your heart you have nothing. Nothing includes salvation.

The other common sense idea if love is not part of salvation is this: I can be saved, but I don't have love in my heart, but so what, I am still saved and I will still live with God and Jesus Christ forever in their Kingdom.

Bottom line, love has to be part of the saving process.
I would not say that love is part of the saving process.

I would say that as a result of being saved/genuine saving faith in Jesus then we learn to a grow in the love that Jesus walked in and had commanded us to do.

Matthew 22:37-40
37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Matthew 5:46-48
46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

1 John 4:17-19

The Consummation of Love
17 Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love. 19 We love Him because He first loved us.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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I would not say that love is part of the saving process.

I would say that as a result of being saved/genuine saving faith in Jesus then we learn to a grow in the love that Jesus walked in and had commanded us to do.

Matthew 22:37-40
37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Matthew 5:46-48
46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

1 John 4:17-19

The Consummation of Love
17 Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love. 19 We love Him because He first loved us.
Again, you would never say, I am saved, but since love is not part of that saved process, I don't have to love and I will still be saved.
That is an oxymoron.

If you don't have love in your heart, you will not be saved, which makes love a part of the saved process.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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If you do not do good works, you will not be saved. Always remember that good works is a sign that you are saved. Good works does not save you, but if the sign is not given, then God will know you were never saved in the first place and your position is make believe.
Interesting from the man who believes that you can lose salvation but then say no works never saved in the first place.

Therefore if someone ceases good works claiming they were saved were they ever saved?
On a side note can you qualify and quantify good works?