Eve's Posterity

Webers.Home · Jul 9, 2018

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● Gen 3:15 . . I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between
your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.

It's pretty much agreed by most Christians that Eve's predicted offspring was
realized in Christ.

● Gal 4:4 . .When the time had fully come, God sent His son, born of a
woman. (cf. Heb 2:14)

● John 12:31-32 . . Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the
prince of this world will be driven out. But I, when I am lifted up from the
earth, will draw all men to myself.

Who was the Serpent's offspring?

Well, as much as is known; spirit beings don't reproduce. So the Serpent's
progeny probably shouldn't be thought of as literal. I suppose there are a
number of ways to spiritualize this; but Judas Iscariot is certainly a likely
candidate. (Luke 22:1-6, John 13:21-30, John 17:12)

NOTE: There's quite a bit of debate as to whether Jesus Christ was actually
his mothers biological offspring; thus biologically related to Eve; which would
make Jesus biologically related to Adam seeing as how Eve got her body
from Adam's body.

● Acts 13:22-23 . . "I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine
own heart, which shall fulfill all my will." Of this man's seed hath God,
according to His promise, raised unto Israel a savior, Jesus.

● Rom 1:1-3 . . Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David
according to the flesh

The koiné Greek word for "seed" in those two passages is sperma (sper'
mah) which can refer to spiritual progeny as well as to biological progeny;
for example:

● Gal 3:29 . . If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and
heirs according to the promise.

That seed is obviously spiritual progeny. But the seed in Rom 1:1-3 is
biological progeny because David's seed is "according to the flesh" in other
words; his literal genetic material.

So then; unless somebody can prove-- clearly, conclusively, and without
ambiguity; air tight and iron clad --that Jesus Christ wasn't biologically
related to David; then it's a foregone conclusion that Adam was the first in
Jesus Christ's biological genealogy.
_

Webers.Home · Jul 18, 2018

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I encounter Christians from time to time that sincerely believe Joseph was
Jesus' stepfather.

However; in order for Mary's baby to qualify for a legitimate place in
Joseph's genealogy as per Matthew 1:1-17, he had to adopt the lad because
stepchildren do not have inheritance rights.

I've also encountered Christians who sincerely believe that the baby Jesus
was an implant; i.e his mom was a surrogate mother instead of a real
mother.
_

posthuman · Jul 18, 2018

It is said the hill Golgotha is so named because it is the site where David buried the skull of Goliath after he brought it to Jerusalem ((re: 1 Samuel 17:4))

If so there is an extraordinary symbol in the cross standing over it in victory, the Seed of the Woman with His feet atop the crushed head of the seed of the enemy of Gods people.

Webers.Home · Jul 19, 2018

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A common reason given for the necessity of Jesus' virgin conception is that it
was done to protect him from the sin nature in accord with the belief that it
isn't passed on through a woman's seed; rather, through a man's.

The illusory truth effect (also known as the validity effect, truth effect and/or
the reiteration effect) is the tendency to believe information to be correct
after repeated exposure. This phenomenon was first identified in a 1977
study at Villanova University and Temple University.

In a nutshell: if people hear a lie often enough by people they trust; in time
their minds will be conditioned to believe it's true.

I have heard preachers, Sunday school teachers, and radio Bible teachers
attest that Jesus Christ was conceived by a virgin because the so-called
"fallen nature" is passed on by men rather than women; but other than
double speak, rationalizing, academic logic, conjecture, and clever sophistry
to defend their claims, none as yet have produced solid textual proof from
the Bible-- proof that clearly, conclusively, iron clad, air tight, and without
vagaries and ambiguity, substantiates the position.
_

posthuman · Jul 20, 2018

Webers.Home said:

Lol you got bad information there.
The nazis were talking about this ((in terms of propaganda)) at least 40 years prior. Repeat a lie often enough and people will believe it's true.

posthuman · Jul 20, 2018

Webers.Home said:

.
A common reason given for the necessity of Jesus' virgin conception is that it
was done to protect him from the sin nature in accord with the belief that it
isn't passed on through a woman's seed; rather, through a man's.

The illusory truth effect (also known as the validity effect, truth effect and/or
the reiteration effect) is the tendency to believe information to be correct
after repeated exposure. This phenomenon was first identified in a 1977
study at Villanova University and Temple University.

In a nutshell: if people hear a lie often enough by people they trust; in time
their minds will be conditioned to believe it's true.

I have heard preachers, Sunday school teachers, and radio Bible teachers
attest that Jesus Christ was conceived by a virgin because the so-called
"fallen nature" is passed on by men rather than women; but other than
double speak, rationalizing, academic logic, conjecture, and clever sophistry
to defend their claims, none as yet have produced solid textual proof from
the Bible-- proof that clearly, conclusively, iron clad, air tight, and without
vagaries and ambiguity, substantiates the position.
_

So what so you say Romans 5:12 means?

Why do you think Christ was born of a virgin, for no reason in particular or for a good and perfect one?

NayborBear · Jul 20, 2018

Webers.Home said:

.
A common reason given for the necessity of Jesus' virgin conception is that it
was done to protect him from the sin nature in accord with the belief that it
isn't passed on through a woman's seed; rather, through a man's.

The illusory truth effect (also known as the validity effect, truth effect and/or
the reiteration effect) is the tendency to believe information to be correct
after repeated exposure. This phenomenon was first identified in a 1977
study at Villanova University and Temple University.

In a nutshell: if people hear a lie often enough by people they trust; in time
their minds will be conditioned to believe it's true.

I have heard preachers, Sunday school teachers, and radio Bible teachers
attest that Jesus Christ was conceived by a virgin because the so-called
"fallen nature" is passed on by men rather than women; but other than
double speak, rationalizing, academic logic, conjecture, and clever sophistry
to defend their claims, none as yet have produced solid textual proof from
the Bible-- proof that clearly, conclusively, iron clad, air tight, and without
vagaries and ambiguity, substantiates the position.
_

Wow man! Where have YOU been? It is said, if you here the same lie from 3 people in Washington DC, that it is TRUTH!

Mem · Jul 20, 2018

I'm not sure what is being asserted here, that Jesus could not have even possibly been born of a virgin, which in accepting, would have to exclude Mary's testimony as valid?

Webers.Home · Jul 20, 2018

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posthuman said:

Rom 5:12 indicates that Adam's posterity, from first to last, were joint
principals with him in the forbidden fruit incident. This includes Jesus too
because he was one of Adam's biological descendants.

The good news is: the forbidden fruit thing isn't a sin unto hell. The penalty
is just simply physical death and that's the end of it. In other words: had not
Christ been crucified he would have eventually died of natural causes.

posthuman said:

It was apparently God's wishes that Jesus Christ be the Son of God and the
Son of Man. Had both his parents been human, that would've ruled God out.

I'm guessing that had Jesus gone to the cross as only a man, his sacrifice
wouldn't have worked. It had to be both God and man up there.

FYI: The label "Son of Man" was neither new nor unique in Jesus' day. God
addressed the prophet Ezekiel as son of man on at least 93 occasions; and
in every case, the Hebrew word for man is 'adam (aw-dawm') which is the
proper name of the human race God that created in the very beginning.

● Gen 5:2 . . Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and
called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

NOTE: According to that passage, Eve was just as much Adam as Adam, no
doubt because she was formed from a tissue sample amputated from
Adam's body. Consequently her biological posterity, whether virgin
conceived or naturally conceived, is Adam's biological posterity.
_

posthuman · Jul 20, 2018

Webers.Home said:

Jesus isn't a son of Adam unless Jesus was not born of a virgin.

you are suggesting that Christ deserved death: that He either has sin, or that God is evil and would Him to death without just cause.

you are suggesting that Christ is not God, and i really, really, really hope you are not some kind of pastor.

posthuman · Jul 20, 2018

by one man sin entered into the world
(Romans 5:12)

Eve sinned first.

why does this verse not say 'by one woman' ?

Behold! The man is become as one of us
(Genesis 3:22)

both ate the fruit. Eve first.

why does God not say 'the man and the woman' ?
why does God not say 'the woman' ?

THunt000 · Jul 20, 2018

Posthuman. Because man is responsible for woman. He has authority over her. He shld have taken charge. However, he listened to her instead of to God.

The big interesting, yet ultimately pointless, question is, what if adam had rejected the fruit after eve had eaten it???

Webers.Home · Jul 20, 2018

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posthuman said:

Eve's eating the fruit was actually quite harmless because God didn't
threaten her with death for eating it. Eve's use of the pronoun "we" in Gen
3:2-3 was an assumption because only Adam was threatened with death for
eating the fruit and that's a very important distinction.

In the beginning God created one human soul; only one. He stopped with
that one human soul and created no more. Everyone's soul since then has
been an extension of that one human soul, including Eve's because she was
formed from a tissue sample amputated from Adam's body.

So then, when Adam sinned, everybody sinned because we are all in him
rather than in our own individual selves: no exceptions.

● Acts 17:25-26 . . He made from one, every race of mankind
_

posthuman · Jul 20, 2018

THunt000 said:

Adam must have considered this; he was not deceived ((1 Timothy 2:14)).
if Adam had remained sinless then the Woman dies and Adam lives. sin is not necessarily passed into the world.
however because Adam sinned also, both are guilty, and death through sin enters without question.

THunt000 said:

nowhere in the scripture that i am aware of is it ever said that Adam is punished for Eve's sin or that Adam bears guilt because he failed to prevent her from sinning.
if Adam failed because he did not build a fence around the tree or tie a rope to the Woman's leg, then God also failed in exactly the same way because He did not put a wall around the tree to keep both of them away.
not only then does this doctrine imply that God is guilty of sin worthy of death, but that suggestion also makes God evil and unjust - that He punishes the innocent for the sin of the guilty. that suggestion makes Christ, our Shepherd, guilty of sin whenever any of us fail, because He has authority over us.

posthuman · Jul 20, 2018

Webers.Home said:

put what you said here together with what you said here,

Webers.Home said:

and you have just accused Jesus of sin.
therefore He is not a spotless sacrifice.
therefore there is no salvation.

congratulations, along with accusing God of sin, you just condemned all mankind to hell, irrevocably, and made God Himself fail at His plan to save, making Him a liar when He says He will save.

i believe it is obvious that you've erred somewhere here in a very serious way.

don't keep repeating a lie, or people may start believing it!
heh.

posthuman · Jul 20, 2018

Webers.Home said:

Jesus is not a created being. He is the Creator.
((re: John 1:3, Colossians 1:16))

posthuman · Jul 20, 2018

Webers.Home said:

the soul is not made of tissue. if it is there is no resurrection.
you've just said there is no salvation because God is evil and Christ is sinful ((i sincerely hope, you said it unwittingly)), and now you are saying the flesh is the soul: so the soul returns to dust as the soul does. no, mr. Weber, Adam did not become a living soul until God breathed into Him: after He had formed his flesh.

also, look, plural:

Behold, all souls are Mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine.

(Ezekiel 18:4)

look, plural:

And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures"

(Genesis 1:20)

that word most English translations call 'creature' is exactly the word 'soul' all throughout the creation account. this verse literally says God made the waters to teem with living souls. plural.

posthuman · Jul 21, 2018

Webers.Home said:

you are saying God is unjust ((evil)) in judging Eve for what she did.

posthuman · Jul 21, 2018

Webers.Home said:

it's also a pretty important distinction that you are accusing Eve of being a liar, though the scripture doesn't say so, but God does not judge here for lying, but for eating the fruit.

the distinction to look at is that God never said don't touch the fruit - which is what Eve said. if she did not get this proscription against touching the tree from God, did she get it from Adam? maybe Adam is not so 'guilty' of 'failing to keep his woman in check' as has been suggested.

but find me the scripture that says Adam was commanded to keep the Woman on a leash, and punished for failing to do so.

=|

Webers.Home · Jul 21, 2018

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posthuman said:

Adam's slip made Christ culpable right along with his fellow men, yes; but it
didn't make him sinful. In point of fact; Christ committed no personal sins of
his own. (John 8:29, 2Cor 5:21, Heb 4:15, 1Pet 2:22)
_

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