Not By Works

dcontroversal · Jul 27, 2018

Yeah let us embellish the biblical narrative to fit your false ideology....so....Jesus did not say if a sheep wander off, get lost and tied up.in barbed wire and then bites the shepherd that comes to find it...nor did he say it turned bavk into a goat that needed to be re"sheepized" into a sheep....man...you guys give Christianity a bad name....!

VCO · Jul 27, 2018

mailmandan said:

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no resulting evidential works (to substantiate his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

In James 2:20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith. That's like saying a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree and the fruit is the source of life in the tree. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If someone says-claims he has faith but lacks resulting evidential works, then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.

In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to save him, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was "shown to be righteous."

In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean that Abraham was finally saved based on merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.

In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.

In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18),not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works will appear to be evidences for, or against a man's being in a state of righteousness.

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.."The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the "sense" in which God was justified, "shown to be righteous".

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

In James 2:25, Rahab believed in the Lord with authentic faith (Joshua 2:9-13), requested "kindness" (2:12), received the promise of kindness (2:14), and hung out the "scarlet line" (2:21), as the demonstration of her authentic faith. She showed that her faith in God was not a dead faith by her works, just as all genuine believers show theirs.

In James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body emits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works (Ephesians 2:5-10).

So man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-26).

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-26). *Perfect Harmony*

YES, this is A EXCELLENT POST. VERY WELL THOUGHT OUT! AMEN!

This is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was "shown to be righteous."

AFTER HE BELIEVED GOD, AND WAS GENUINELY SAVED AT THAT MOMENT. Our Living Born Again human spirit, AFTER it is saved, will go on to PRODUCE FRUIT, which is evidence that IT IS ALIVE.

VCO · Jul 27, 2018

mailmandan said:

If one reads Romans 2:6-10 in isolation from the rest of the book of Romans, one might conclude that Paul was teaching salvation by works. However, as you read and study these passages, it is imperative to keep in mind that these verses do not describe how one becomes saved, but the way the saved conduct their lives. These workss done are the result of, not the means or basis of receiving salvation.

So patient continuance in well doing, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality; (vs. 7) is not at all set forth as the means of their procuring eternal life, but as a description of those to whom God does render life eternal.

*Notice that ALL who receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does good (vs. 10). Good deeds flow from a heart that is saved and evil deeds flow from a heart that is unsaved. Verse 8 - but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath.

*Notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does evil (vs. 9). What those passages convey is that though our deeds are judged by God, it's not the good deeds themselves which are the basis or means of our salvation, but the type of deeds expose whether our heart was saved, or not. These deeds done out of faith are the fruit, not the root of salvation.

If Paul wanted to teach that we are saved by works, then he would have clearly stated that we are saved through faith and works in Ephesians 2:8 and that we are justified by faith and works in Romans 5:1 but that is clearly NOT what Paul said. Also see (Romans 4:4-6; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).

In Romans 2:13, Paul was showing the self-righteous Jews who judged the Gentiles that they were not able to keep a perfect standard. *They were hypocrites. *This is why Paul tells us in the very next chapter in Romans 3:28 that we are justified by faith apart from the works of the Law. *No one is able to keep a perfect standard of the Law. *If you fail even once (stumble in one point), then you become guilty of it all.

James 2:10, “For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.” Galatians 3:10, “For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.”

The Jews (and anyone else) can be justified before God by keeping the Law, but he or she has to be 100% perfect. *A person can’t fail even once--ever. *But all have failed (Romans 3:23; 6:23), that is why we must be justified before God by faith (Romans 3:24-28, 4:2-6; 5:1).

ANOTHER EXCELLENT POST! Thank You.

BillG · Jul 27, 2018

benhur said:

What I was trying to convey if someone is struggling with something and they seek help, to turn round and just quote Bible verses and leave it at that is not the way to just do it.

We need to come alongside and find out what they are struggling with and why.

A simple example being.

Someone comes to you and says "I'm struggling with severe anxiety"

To just turn round and qote Bible verses that say "Do not be anxious" and leave it at that, for me is not the right approach.

Afterall if walk and talk then we may get to the root of the anxiety, and as a result that there are different Bible verses that are more appropriate.

Or that specialist help is needed or medical opinion may be needed.

That is what I was trying to convey.

There is always a root to an issue, we need to determine the root and deal with it.

I hope that makes sense.

The Bible is the ultimate resource for living, help, comfort, reproof.

I know of many people and those that I have walked with who were just quoted Bible verses when seeking help and it was left at that.

BillG · Jul 27, 2018

benhur said:

I think I may have caused confusion with "now go do work"

Of course we do works, it's a no brainer.

What I meant to say was has been conveyed above.

BillG · Jul 27, 2018

benhur said:

Why do they struggle so hard to get away?

Because they are frightened, wounded, hurt and in fear.
It's not because they do not want to be saved.

Yet Jesus says the one who goes astray he will seek after and carry it back on his shoulders.

TruthTalk · Jul 27, 2018

dcontroversal said:

This is a beautiful picture of Jesus Christ interceding for us at the right hand of God. This is just but one example of God's love for all true believers, the "eternal security of the believer."

More than conquerors: Our Savior will not lose one of His dear sheep, not one.
34) Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.
35) Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?
36) As it is written:
For your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”
37) No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
38) For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers,
39) neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

mailmandan · Jul 27, 2018

benhur said:

We are saved the second that we truly BELIEVE *(which is a deep abiding belief and not a shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away).* The parable of the sower does not prove otherwise (or disprove OSAS) as I clearly explained in post #67,886. - https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/not-by-works.146296/page-3395#post-3667024

Not all belief is the same (John 2:23-25; 8:31-59; James 2:19) compare with (John 3:15-18; Acts 10:43; 16:31 etc..). I've heard works-salvationists try to explain that "all" belief is the same "except for the lack of works" and will even cite in James 2:19 that even the demons "believe" but lack works to save them and such people cannot seem to grasp a DEEPER belief/faith which trusts exclusively in Jesus Christ for salvation, which explains why works-salvationists have so much faith in works for salvation and also try to use that logic to support the false doctrine of NOSAS. Deep abiding belief saves. Shallow, temporary belief does not.

mailmandan · Jul 27, 2018

benhur said:

When Jesus spoke these words in John 15, how many people at that time, prior to Him being glorified, had received the Holy Spirit and were baptized by one Spirit into one body? - "the body of Christ?" (1 Corinthians 12:13). NONE

John 7:38 - He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. *So "in me" is part of the metaphor of the vine, (in the vine) and not in the body of Christ under the New Covenant which was not yet fully established.

*So in John 15, we see two kinds of connections with Christ as the vine (the merely cosmic which bears no fruit and the spiritual and vital which bears fruit). - https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/robertsons-word-pictures/john/john-15.html

Without that vital union with Christ, there can be no life and no productivity. Those who profess to know Christ but whose relationship to Him is self-attached, He neither elected them, nor saved them, nor sustains them. Eventually, the dead self-attached fruitless branches are cut off.

The branches that bear fruit and remain are genuine believers (like the remaining 11 disciples). The self-attached branches that bear no fruit and do not remain are not genuine believers (like Judas Iscariot) and those who were offended by the words of Jesus and walked with Him no more - (John 6:60-64). Judas was an unbelieving, unclean devil who betrayed Jesus (John 6:64-71; 13:10,11).

benhur · Jul 27, 2018

mailmandan said:

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no resulting evidential works (to substantiate his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

In James 2:20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith. That's like saying a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree and the fruit is the source of life in the tree. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If someone says-claims he has faith but lacks resulting evidential works, then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.

In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to save him, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was "shown to be righteous."

In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean that Abraham was finally saved based on merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.

In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.

In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18),not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works will appear to be evidences for, or against a man's being in a state of righteousness.

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.."The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the "sense" in which God was justified, "shown to be righteous".

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

In James 2:25, Rahab believed in the Lord with authentic faith (Joshua 2:9-13), requested "kindness" (2:12), received the promise of kindness (2:14), and hung out the "scarlet line" (2:21), as the demonstration of her authentic faith. She showed that her faith in God was not a dead faith by her works, just as all genuine believers show theirs.

In James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body emits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works (Ephesians 2:5-10).

So man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-26).

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-26). *Perfect Harmony*

Nice post, but it boils down to 4 words in your last paragraph: "if it is genuine". If it is genuine, good works and obedience, and faith experiences follow. If it is not genuine then you will not see these things in its proper abundance.

Like I have said many times, billions of Christians are going to be disappointed on judgement day because they feel like they were born-again and as it turns out, it was not genuine, and the OSAS doctrine gives them a sense of false security, thinking they are saved, and they are not.

benhur · Jul 27, 2018

mailmandan said:

We are saved the second that we truly BELIEVE *(which is a deep abiding belief and not a shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away).* The parable of the sower does not prove otherwise (or disprove OSAS) as I clearly explained in post #67,886. - https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/not-by-works.146296/page-3395#post-3667024

Not all belief is the same (John 2:23-25; 8:31-59; James 2:19) compare with (John 3:15-18; Acts 10:43; 16:31 etc..). I've heard works-salvationists try to explain that "all" belief is the same "except for the lack of works" and will even cite in James 2:19 that even the demons "believe" but lack works to save them and such people cannot seem to grasp a DEEPER belief/faith which trusts exclusively in Jesus Christ for salvation, which explains why works-salvationists have so much faith in works for salvation and also try to use that logic to support the false doctrine of NOSAS. Deep abiding belief saves. Shallow, temporary belief does not.

It is not a lack of works to save them, (remember, works can't save), it is a lack of works because their "supposed" experience being born-again was not genuine.

NoNameMcgee · Jul 27, 2018

benhur said:

Nice post, but it boils down to 4 words in your last paragraph: "if it is genuine". If it is genuine, good works and obedience, and faith experiences follow. If it is not genuine then you will not see these things in its proper abundance.

Like I have said many times, billions of Christians are going to be disappointed on judgement day because they feel like they were born-again and as it turns out, it was not genuine, and the OSAS doctrine gives them a sense of false security, thinking they are saved, and they are not.

*sigh*
ben

you cant blame truth for giving people false assurance

calibob · Jul 27, 2018

dcontroversal said:

mailmandan said:

WE CANT EARN OUR SALVATION WE DON'T DESERVE IT. OUR RIGHTOUSNES IS AS BLOODY RAGS

TO THE ONE AND ONLY WHO IS PERFECT!

mailmandan · Jul 27, 2018

benhur said:

There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers. Good works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of genuine faith, but not the essence of faith and not the means of our salvation. There will be many people at the judgment who were trusting in their works for salvation and thought they were genuine Christians, but will find out the hard way that they were merely "nominal" Christians (Matthew 7:22-23).

OSAS does not give me a false sense of security (Psalm 37:28; John 6:37; 10:27-29; Romans 8:30; Ephesians 1:13-14 etc..). It does however give me an immense sense of gratitude towards my faithful good Shepherd/Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Praise the Lord!

NoNameMcgee · Jul 27, 2018

mailmandan said:

There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers. Good works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of genuine faith, but not the essence of faith and not the means of our salvation. There will be many people at the judgment who were trusting in their works for salvation and thought they were genuine Christians, but will find out the hard way that they were merely "nominal" Christians (Matthew 7:22-23).

OSAS does not give me a false sense of security (Psalm 37:28; John 6:37; 10:27-29; Romans 8:30; Ephesians 1:13-14 etc..). It does however give me an immense sense of gratitude towards my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Praise the Lord!

amen

benhur · Jul 27, 2018

mailmandan said:

When Jesus spoke these words in John 15, how many people at that time, prior to Him being glorified, had received the Holy Spirit and were baptized by one Spirit into one body? - "the body of Christ?" (1 Corinthians 12:13). NONE

John 7:38 - He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. *So "in me" is part of the metaphor of the vine, (in the vine) and not in the body of Christ under the New Covenant which was not yet fully established.

*So in John 15, we see two kinds of connections with Christ as the vine (the merely cosmic which bears no fruit and the spiritual and vital which bears fruit). - https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/robertsons-word-pictures/john/john-15.html

Without that vital union with Christ, there can be no life and no productivity. Those who profess to know Christ but whose relationship to Him is self-attached, He neither elected them, nor saved them, nor sustains them. Eventually, the dead self-attached fruitless branches are cut off.

The branches that bear fruit and remain are genuine believers (like the remaining 11 disciples). The self-attached branches that bear no fruit and do not remain are not genuine believers (like Judas Iscariot) and those who were offended by the words of Jesus and walked with Him no more - (John 6:60-64). Judas was an unbelieving, unclean devil who betrayed Jesus (John 6:64-71; 13:10,11).

Jesus is talking about every branch IN HIM, whether that person lived in 30ad or lives in 2018ad. He is talking to everybody who believes in him. And he is telling them that if they do not produce fruit, fit for the KOG, they will not be in the KOG, whether you think you are born-again or not. Another word for born-again is IN HIM.

He could have said, whoever is born-again and does not produce fruit, will be taken away.

mailmandan · Jul 27, 2018

benhur said:

That is your assumption, yet once again, when Jesus spoke these words in John 15, how many people at that time, prior to Him being glorified, had received the Holy Spirit and were baptized by one Spirit into one body? - "the body of Christ?" (1 Corinthians 12:13). *NONE*

Under the New Covenant, YES. But in John 7:38, we read - He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. *So "in me" is part of the metaphor of the vine, (in the vine) and not in the body of Christ under the New Covenant which was not yet fully established.

But Jesus didn't say "whoever is born again" in John 15 and Jesus used a metaphor of a vine in connection with "IN ME" and we see two kinds of connections with Christ as the vine (the merely cosmic which bears no fruit and the spiritual and vital which bears fruit).

https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/robertsons-word-pictures/john/john-15.html

calibob · Jul 27, 2018

i TRULY BELIEVE, ALL JOKES ASIDE THAT IF WE 'COULD' BECOME UNSAVED IT COULD ONLY BE BY A DECISION OF OUR OWN ACCORD or else saved would lose it's meaning. It would take an act of spiritual suicide! Neither by accident or neglect could we do that, It would be like being un-rescued.

I try not to do this much but I must make up a parabel to explain, please bear with me. If the world was a sea and we were struggling to stay afloat. The sharks would be sin, the devil and they're out to get us. The good Admiral knew of our distress an sent his son the good captian, to get us and had to endure much peril and pain. But still threw us a rope and rescued us although we didn't deserve it. Do you think he'd over look the pain and sacrifice it took to rescue us and throw us overboard for infractions?" I doubt it. He knew all about what we'd do before he came and suffered so much for us. If we go overboard, we jumped off the ship. He will even try and save us again if we do. Jesus will never throw us to the Sharks [the devil] because we are lousy seamen, we were lousy to begin with! He rescued us any way. So if you can't understand that, I feel sorry for you.

You'd have to be pretty stupid to choose hell over salvation while the good capitan tied the spiritual rope of the holy spirit tied to draw us back if we do fall overboard!

NoNameMcgee · Jul 27, 2018

mailmandan said:

That is your assumption, yet once again, when Jesus spoke these words in John 15, how many people at that time, prior to Him being glorified, had received the Holy Spirit and were baptized by one Spirit into one body? - "the body of Christ?" (1 Corinthians 12:13). *NONE*

Under the New Covenant, YES. But in John 7:38, we read - He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. *So "in me" is part of the metaphor of the vine, (in the vine) and not in the body of Christ under the New Covenant which was not yet fully established.

But Jesus didn't say "whoever is born again" in John 15 and Jesus used a metaphor of a vine in connection with "IN ME" and we see two kinds of connections with Christ as the vine (the merely cosmic which bears no fruit and the spiritual and vital which bears fruit).

https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/robertsons-word-pictures/john/john-15.html

spot on

john 15
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

if you TRUELY abide in Christ HE ABIDES IN YOU -> this is what produces fruit

benhur · Jul 27, 2018

mailmandan said:

There will be many people at the judgment who were trusting in their born-again status that assured them a place in heaven without having to do anything else except believe. These nominal Christians will be surprzed and will look to their pastors for help and not find it.

Many Christians will also think that their good works should have saved them. They too will be surprized.

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