PROVING THE TRINITY IS A BIBLICAL DOCTRINE

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jaybird88

Guest
#101
#101
vic1980 said:
Concerning the High Trinity of the Catholic faith , and that no one shall dare to dispute about publicly.​

This is a very important document that preachers do not study upon , but once you have and act knowledge what is written within this decree , and have examine the historic life process of how long ago was this consider the law in dark ages .

Then and only then , you will understand clearly , why there are many groups of believers in Jesus Christ our Lord , that detest such a doctrine.

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but are we not commanded by scripture to test all things? this sounds like it would be telling us to disobey what scripture tells us to do. so whats to stop some lunatic from pulling some doctrine out of thin air, tell his followers its scripture, and forbids them to test it against scripture. by this means you could make a doctrine on anything.
 
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bluto

Senior Member
#103
Aug 4, 2016
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#103
Dem said:
there is no trinity end of story.
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Ok dem, let's get down to business here shall we? Let's forget about the Trinity and in keeping with my opening thread can you please answer the following question? Is it true that in the Bible God the Father is idenitified as God, the Son is identified as God and the Holy Spirit is identified as God. I say yes and can provide verses to prove it. What do you say? Remember, I'm not talking about the Trinity. Again, I'm asking that in the Bible three persons of the Godhead are "clearly" idntified as the ONE God, yes or no? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#104
Apr 22, 2013
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#104
Genesis 1:26 New King James Version (NKJV)
26 Then God said, “Let US make man in OUR image, according to OUR likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over [a]all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

Wondering how those that deny Jesus is God, and the Holy Spirit is God and the Father is God as distinct yet One, deal with God using US and OUR?
 
Zmouth

Zmouth

Senior Member
#105
Nov 21, 2012
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#105
Noose said:
No more illogical than claiming eternal and immortal are the same, the only way to discern is by principles, which are not man made doctrines.
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; Eph 4:14
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What do you mean?
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Seeing that a principle is an fixed and unalterable light then if you can define by the principle of the eternal by your doctrine then by principle why can't they define God by their trinity doctrine?.

If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him? Luke 11:13

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. James 1:17-18

O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. Matt 12:34-35
 
Zmouth

Zmouth

Senior Member
#106
Nov 21, 2012
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#106
PennEd said:
Genesis 1:26 New King James Version (NKJV)
26 Then God said, “Let US make man in OUR image, according to OUR likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over [a]all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

Wondering how those that deny Jesus is God, and the Holy Spirit is God and the Father is God as distinct yet One, deal with God using US and OUR?
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Since Elohim is plural Gods, then of course these lights would have said let us make man in our image after our likeness seeing that LORD God formed them by their light and man became a speaking soul.

To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. Isa 8:20
 
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Noose

Senior Member
#107
Apr 18, 2016
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#107
bluto said:
Oh boy, what utter nonsense. Not only is Jesus the person of the Holy Spirit (according to you) but now your very last sentence says, "Jesus is saying He is the Father." That is classic oneness pentecostal teaching and that is why ther are considered a non-christian cult.

So noose, from what I'm reading you believe Jesus is God the Father based on two verses, Isaiah 9:6 and John 14:9. Are there any others you have to prove the gross error that Jesus Christ is God the Father?
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Not the only verses, the entire bible.

Rev 21:7The one who is victorious will inherit all things, and I will be his God, and he will be My son.

Mal 3:1“Behold, I will send My messenger, who will prepare the way before Me. Then the Lord whom you seek will suddenly come to His temple— the Messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight—see, He is coming,” says the LORD of Hosts.


So I have a question for you based on Mark 1:11, "and a voice came out of the heavens; "Thou art My beloved Son, in Thee I am well-pleased." Tell me, is Jesus (who you say is God the Father) the one speaking about Himself who is His only beloved self in the mode of the Son that He is pleased with? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
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1. This was a demonstration of the understanding between authorities of God written down for our sake. How you get three distinct persons in one being from that passage is beyond logic. Jesus alone, was already one being as He stood in the river being baptized, for the three to be one one being means that the Father and the holy spirit are not beings at all as per your logic (God forbid).

2. How many people heard the voice and saw the Holy spirit come down in the form of a dove?
Only John and Jesus heard and saw this and there's a reason why. This was just symbolic way of presenting the invisible authorities of God.
 
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Noose

Senior Member
#108
Apr 18, 2016
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#108
Zmouth said:
Seeing that a principle is an fixed and unalterable light then if you can define by the principle of the eternal by your doctrine then by principle why can't they define God by their trinity doctrine?.

If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him? Luke 11:13

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. James 1:17-18

O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. Matt 12:34-35
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Still not clear, why don't point out an error in what a person has said?
I don't remember saying that immortal is the same thing as eternal.
 
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Noose

Senior Member
#109
Apr 18, 2016
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#109
PennEd said:
Genesis 1:26 New King James Version (NKJV)
26 Then God said, “Let US make man in OUR image, according to OUR likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over [a]all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

Wondering how those that deny Jesus is God, and the Holy Spirit is God and the Father is God as distinct yet One, deal with God using US and OUR?
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Gen 1:26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness, to rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, and over all the earth itself and every creature that crawls upon it.” 27So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and every creature that crawls upon the earth.”

These verses are not about trinity. God was not literally talking to someone, He was not putting forward a proposal to another person. This is just an understanding within the authorities of God written down for your benefit. How is it trinity if one person proposes something to another as if they are not aware then the other person can not be God because they are not aware.

God is talking about authority here, the image is all about authority. Man is in the image of God because he is to rule over the world, something that satan stole from them and is that image that the saviour comes to redeem.

Thinking that we are created in the image of God means that we are three distinct persons in one being falls flat; are we three distinct persons in one being? of course not.

Read that verse again and especially here: "..So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them."
 
J

jb

Senior Member
#110
Feb 27, 2010
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#110
Dem said:
there is no trinity end of story.
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2Peter 3v16 springs to mind when I read such spiritually myopic comments!

"...which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures."
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#111
Apr 22, 2013
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#111
Noose said:
Gen 1:26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness, to rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, and over all the earth itself and every creature that crawls upon it.” 27So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and every creature that crawls upon the earth.”

These verses are not about trinity. God was not literally talking to someone, He was not putting forward a proposal to another person. This is just an understanding within the authorities of God written down for your benefit. How is it trinity if one person proposes something to another as if they are not aware then the other person can not be God because they are not aware.

God is talking about authority here, the image is all about authority. Man is in the image of God because he is to rule over the world, something that satan stole from them and is that image that the saviour comes to redeem.

Thinking that we are created in the image of God means that we are three distinct persons in one being falls flat; are we three distinct persons in one being? of course not.

Read that verse again and especially here: "..So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them."
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Man... The mental gymnastics one has to do to deny Jesus Christ is God in the flesh is amazing!

You don't want to use the word Trinity? Fine. Let's just make it real simple. No need for for a long post.

IS JESUS CHRIST GOD, THE CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE, IN THE FLESH? That's a simple yes or no.
 
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gb9

Senior Member
#112
Jan 18, 2011
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#112
PennEd said:
Man... The mental gymnastics one has to do to deny Jesus Christ is God in the flesh is amazing!

You don't want to use the word Trinity? Fine. Let's just make it real simple. No need for for a long post.

IS JESUS CHRIST GOD, THE CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE, IN THE FLESH? That's a simple yes or no.
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now penn, you have been around here a long time. you know that there is no such thing as a simple yes or no answer from those who are more interested in propping up their theology than giving straight answers.
 
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Noose

Senior Member
#113
Apr 18, 2016
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#113
PennEd said:
Man... The mental gymnastics one has to do to deny Jesus Christ is God in the flesh is amazing!

You don't want to use the word Trinity? Fine. Let's just make it real simple. No need for for a long post.

IS JESUS CHRIST GOD, THE CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE, IN THE FLESH? That's a simple yes or no.
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YES.

That was very simple wasn't it?
 
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Noose

Senior Member
#114
Apr 18, 2016
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#114
PennEd said:
Man... The mental gymnastics one has to do to deny Jesus Christ is God in the flesh is amazing!

You don't want to use the word Trinity? Fine. Let's just make it real simple. No need for for a long post.

IS JESUS CHRIST GOD, THE CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE, IN THE FLESH? That's a simple yes or no.
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Quoting Genesis to prove trinity is mental gymnastics. How does Genesis prove trinity? Are you three persons in one being yourself?
 
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gb9

Senior Member
#115
Jan 18, 2011
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#115
Noose said:
Quoting Genesis to prove trinity is mental gymnastics. How does Genesis prove trinity? Are you three persons in one being yourself?
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good for you for giving a straight answer. I stand corrected.

now, I give you this for thought- did Jesus say " I will pray the Father and He will send the Comforter ....... ", or did He say ' I will pray myself and I will send me.........?
 
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Noose

Senior Member
#116
Apr 18, 2016
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#116
gb9 said:
good for you for giving a straight answer. I stand corrected.

now, I give you this for thought- did Jesus say " I will pray the Father and He will send the Comforter ....... ", or did He say ' I will pray myself and I will send me.........?
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John 16:25...A time is coming when I will no longer speak to you this way, but will tell you plainly about the Father. 26In that day you will ask in My name. I am not saying that I will ask the Father on your behalf. 27For the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me and have believed that I came from God.

You still don't understand Jesus, do you? He is not going to ask anyone anything, He is going to attain the authority of the Father by Himself.

John 16:12 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”
 
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Noose

Senior Member
#117
Apr 18, 2016
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#117
gb9 said:
good for you for giving a straight answer. I stand corrected.

now, I give you this for thought- did Jesus say " I will pray the Father and He will send the Comforter ....... ", or did He say ' I will pray myself and I will send me.........?
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You also don't understand that the Father is only with respect to the son, the disciples would only attain the authority of the son after Jesus had attained the authority of the Father and indwelled them as the Holy spirit. That's why Jesus told them:

John 16:23 In that day you will no longer ask Me anything. Truly, truly, I tell you, whatever you ask the Father in My name, He will give you. 24 Until now you have not asked for anything in My name. Ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be complete.

Why do you think Jesus told them that until that time they had not asked anything in His name?
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#118
Apr 22, 2013
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#118
Noose said:
Quoting Genesis to prove trinity is mental gymnastics. How does Genesis prove trinity? Are you three persons in one being yourself?
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If you believe The Father is God, and the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, why would anyone get hung up on the word Trinity? It's just a descriptive name of the tri-une nature of God.
 
Zmouth

Zmouth

Senior Member
#119
Nov 21, 2012
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#119
Noose said:
I don't remember saying that immortal is the same thing as eternal.
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You just did when say that Jesus was the eternal God in the flesh.

The eternal can not be created and neither can it change in nature or form. If the eternal can change in nature or form then it can be created so there really isn't logical argument against the three divine persons of the trinity each being God yet by nature are one God.
 
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gb9

Senior Member
#120
Jan 18, 2011
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#120
Noose said:
You also don't understand that the Father is only with respect to the son, the disciples would only attain the authority of the son after Jesus had attained the authority of the Father and indwelled them as the Holy spirit. That's why Jesus told them:

John 16:23 In that day you will no longer ask Me anything. Truly, truly, I tell you, whatever you ask the Father in My name, He will give you. 24 Until now you have not asked for anything in My name. Ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be complete.

Why do you think Jesus told them that until that time they had not asked anything in His name?
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because he ( and no one else ) told them to pray in anyone's name.

I understand just fine. oneness is a lie, based on salvation by command keeping. oneness is just another disguise for legalism.
 
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