Easiest way to refute Calvinism

EASIEST WAY TO REFUTE Calvinism: Calvies say God REGENERATES the elect so they can believe. Well CONGRATS Calvies you give those who NEVER BELIEVE an excuse for their unbelief because God did not REGENERATE them so they can believe. AND TULIP DESTROYED with one simple demonstration of COMMON SENSE. Romans 1 tells us NO ONE has an excuse because God has made it possible for ALL to believe.

Romans 1:21, Because that, when they knew God,.............. The natural man, according to 1 Cor 2:14, does not know or believe in a spiritual God, in fact it says "he cannot know spiritual things". Romans 1 is talking about disobedient children of God.

Romans 1 is about the world in general that they have no excuse for not believing in a higher power that created all things, and not loving this higher power and people, which covers the 2 greatest laws, love God, and love people, the universal law that covers the whole history of mankind from Adam and Eve to the last one born on earth.

Creation alone testifies there is a higher power that loves people, for He provided food, and the means to make clothing, and shelter, so they should love this higher power, and people, so the world is without excuse if they do not.

Creation alone will judge the world, but also the word of God goes against them if they disobey it.

It is not talking about disobedient children of God, although they are judged for hypocrisy, and not obeying the truth, but people who see by creation that a higher power created all things, but chose not to believe it in the truth.

Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Wrath of God is revealed against all ungodliness, and unrighteousness, who hold the truth in unrighteousness, which is talking of the world, all people that do not believe.

Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

Creation testifies of God and of His attributes which one of them is love, so they should believe in a higher power, and love people. Creation testifies that God is good, loving, powerful, and intelligent.

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

They knew God by creation but ignored the truth of Him.

These people refused to believe God in the truth, and were in to idols, and evolution, and denying the true God, for they served nature more than they served the Creator.

If you say disobedient children of God they would not fit this pattern, for they would have the right perspective of God, but they are disobedient by way of not obeying His holiness.

These people do not have the right perspective of God, some into natural things attributing it to God, nature worship, and some like today believing in evolution.

So it is addressed to the world from Adam and Eve to the last person born on earth that nobody throughout history has an excuse for not believing in a higher power in the truth, for creation testifies of the truth.

And if addressed to the world that they have no excuse for ignoring the truth which lies in the 2 greatest laws, love God, and love people, which is how a person becomes a child of God, then anybody can have salvation.

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent.

God said that He does not want anybody to perish, and repent, and come to the knowledge of the truth, and be saved.

God commands every person to repent on earth, and if He commands that every person on earth repent, then anybody can be saved.

Its always good to check with the Bible, its what whe have it for:

"Though he had done so many signs before them, they still did not believe in him...

For this reason they could not believe, because, as Isaiah says elsewhere:
He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn--and I would heal them."
J 12:40


You can call it regeneration or not, does not matter. What matters is a fact that God is in control of who will believe.

To believe in His existence and attributes that can be seen in His creation. But this is not a salvic faith.

To believe that this man, who was preaching in Israel and who was killed by Romans is God's son and that he was risen by God is a salvic faith and this faith needs something more than just possibility. It needs to have the Spirit.

Can you find the verse you are referring to, I've read Romans 1 many times and I don't recall any such verse.

you would be the first person in over 500 years to find a fault with Calvin's "TULIP", you may have found something which would change the lives of many millions of people.

We have had many millions attempt to find a fault with TULIP for centuries, every last on of them failed miserably. You would be the first and you would become world famous overnight. You could write a book and make millions, so please enlighten us with this amazing discovery. I can't wait for this life changing discovery, but I have a terrible feeling you're going to disappoint me with a false alarm

I think I owe you an apology, for misunderstanding you in other threads. I love what say here, it's the absolute truth. May the Lord richly bless you

I think that calvinism is mostly biblical, but I think its frequently stretched to extreme positions and philosophical implications about God that are wrong.
Its also quite narrow and I think the reality is much greater/broader.

I am rather leibnizian and open minded. Thats why I may confuse you because sometimes I will agree with you and sometimes not ;-)

Hi LW97, actually, Arminians make the very same claim do they not? I believe the term is, "Prevenient Grace", apart from which no one would be able to believe.

Here's an article I found about it (and the opening statement from that article).

.........Prevenient grace is a Christian theological concept rooted in Arminian theology, though it appeared earlier in Catholic theology.
.........It is divine grace that precedes human decision.

.........Prevenient grace - Wikipedia
.........https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevenient_grace

~Deut

He has probably a problem with the term "regeneration" or that only specific individuals get the needed receptors for God's salvic grace.

The word all is used in two ways. The word as many is the key to understand which one.

Yes he has made it possible for all, as the many as the father has given to the Son to believe Him not seen.

Matthew 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name

John 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

But not all of the froward nation that have no faith.

Deuteronomy 32:20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

Just the imaginations of their own sinful hearts that they were born with as those who must walk by sight natural man

The faith to believe God comes from hearing as the His work of His faith that works in us to both will and do His good pleasure. It is imputed to the one who previously had no faith . Faith to beleive God is the gift. Not of our own selves. Again who previously had none(not little)

One Calvinist friend of mine said that babies are "born reprobate" and that then later they are also "reprobate so that they CAN'T believe"... which does not make sense to me (and I believe, does not make good biblical sense of the passage under discussion). I mean, according to Calvinism, they can't believe (EVER).

Three times it states "God gave up them [G3860 G846]," in Rom1:24,26,28, and in that last one it says, "God gave up them [G3860 G846] UNTO a depraved/reprobate mind TO DO things not being proper/fitting." What would be the meaning of "God gave up them [G3860 G846] unto" if that was already the state they started from (from birth, or from conception/existence)?

and still Calvinists deny such common sense scripture

so the question becomes, if you are a Christian, does that automatically make you a Calvinist also?

^ That second picture is great.

Your memes or what it is are very misrepresenting not only calvinism, but also Christianity as such.

"1. Calvin says God is the author of sin...Calvin calls you a heretic for believing in free will""
Calvinism or reformed theology is not as much about Calvin as you think, but even so, I am afraid such short sentences without context are always manipulative and misleading. Every term needs to be properly defined.

"2. A calvinist preacher tells sinners to repent and then tells them that thay cannot repent"
Every stream in Christianity, every one without exception, will tell you that God's grace is needed for everything, from breathing to making good decisions, as Jesus said "without me you can do nothing".
There are only different views about if God gives some of His grace to specific individuals only or to all individuals. Or whether its one sided action or a cooperation.

That's the very reason why I thought it was funny.

Thats not true.

Many people can believe, muslims, Jews, false Christians, temporal Christians, even jesus taught in his parables that faith is of a different quality and many people leave the faith later.

Calvinism teaches that you need a special grace of God to have a real faith and to keep it to the end. Which is nothing special for calvinism only. But calvinism adds to that that God gives this grace to specific elected individuals only.

We should try to avoid oversimplification.

well you don't like them as you are a Calvinist

sometimes I just prefer humor for certain things and IMO, the ridiculous assertions of Calvinism are perfect for that

it's just your view regarding what you say

and by the way, you appear to be saying there is a difference between Christianity and Calvinism

oops

Well, in my conversation with my Calvinist friend, he stated that he was referring to the "Total Inability" (the "T" of the TULIP scheme), hence his usage of the word "can't" (meaning, a person "can't" have faith, it must be poured into him).

Additionally (which may or may not make any difference in this present convo ), I see a difference in Scripture between "faith" (whether his/hers/yours/their or "faith OF Christ") and "the faith" (the latter of which is, "that body of truth" we are to believe, namely, that which is found in the NT following His death/resurrection).

Before I came to this website 5 yrs ago I thought a TULIP was a Danish flower.

I have come to learn that most of the letters of TULIP I mostly agree with. I'm not sure why there is any debate at all about the "T". Either we have ABILITY to save ourselves, or we don't. If we say we have ability to save ourselves I cannot at all understand how that is not a works Gospel. We are not co-saviors with Jesus Christ, and I'm pretty sure that is highly offensive to His Father if we claim we have some ability to help His Son save us.