Not By Works

AMEN DAN SOOOOO WELL SAID!

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

I have witnessed over and over how you and EG and Decon and others have accused Shamah of preaching we are saved BY our works. And have seen him explain over and over his position that he is not "SAVED" BY his works. He has told you this over and over. Both with his words, and directly from the Word's of God. He has asked for you, and your friends, to show posts of him saying what you accuse him of saying. And not even one time, in hundreds of posts, have even one of you guys actually shown him the Posts where he said he believed he was "SAVED" BY his works.

Yet, here you are again, now saying that even though you can't "SHOW" ANY Evidence that he believes he is saved by his works, you imply he is lying, speaking out of "one side of his mouth one thing, and the other side of his mouth another.

1 John 3:
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

I have personally read Shamah giving the Messiah the Glory for his life, his knowledge, his love, God's Mercy. This is a new low even for you Dan. "But not about what the Messiah has done for him"? Have you even read his posts?

What a dishonest and evil thing to say about someone who has done nothing but share God's Love with you all.

He believes, as do I and others on this forum, that were are being prepared for something by the Great Preparer.

Phil. 3:
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: (Shamah and others on this form have said this as well) but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,


14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. (Jesus doesn't "Press" for Paul here as you would have us believe)

15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

And how will God reveal this to you? Have you convinced yourself you are so special He would take a day off His schedule and personally come to you are say, what He has already said many, many times? " If you Love Me, Keep MY Commandments".

Or will He Treat you as He does all mankind.

Luke 16:
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

But what if you have been convinced, as was Eve, that you are already there. Already perfect. Already SAVED? That you no longer need God's instructions but can now rely on your own religious vision which varies depending on the religious franchise one belongs to. What if you have been convinced that being perfect is "Self Righteousness" and therefore you are not to "Follow after" it.

What if the reason you all hold such animosity towards Shamah is the same reason Cain hated Abel.

What if the Messiah is right, and it is you who are wrong.

you say all this, and then you will flip right around and say that Jesus did not save the thief on the cross next to Him then and there, that the thief already knew and accepted Him.

amazing the mental gymnastics you guys do to claim you believe in salvation by grace, but then explain at length how one has to keep the Law to be saved.

maybe, hopefully one day you will accept the Gospel- believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be save

greek word for believe means- believe. not keep the law.

Amen! He also confuses descriptive passages of scripture with prescriptive passages of scripture. We are not fooled by his trickery and deceit.

The fact is, you are unaware of the value of Romans 6 in my post that refutes your insistence that we who are in Christ are still sinners.
Romans 6 informs the reader that those in Christ are dead to sin and alive to God.

Ah, but what kind of fruits? Raspberry, strawberry, kiwi....
I like to think I'm a strawberry,raspberry,mango, guava smoothie.

Were Christ reading you write that looking over your shoulder, I too would be embarrassed and ashamed for you.

What I do has no bearing on the way you all treat Shamah and other brothers on this forum, or the untruths you place on him. You will not be able to say to HIM in that day, "We abused and told lies about our brother because Studyman thinks the thief on the cross knew about YOU before he was hanged on the tree".

Rom. 2:
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.


As I have asked. What if the Bible is right, and you guys are wrong?

The thief on the cross did know who Jesus was. That's why he defended Jesus against the ridicule of the other thief crucified on the other side of Jesus. And Jesus knew that defender thief as well. And that is why that thief was on that day with our Lord in paradise. Just as Jesus promised him.

Amen! Such persons have a long way to go.

I think every Christian would agree it is pitiable to encounter someone who acts like the devil when speaking to a Christian. And while defending the saving grace words of God.

Jesus reiterated much of the ten commandments in his ministry. And yet often enough we will encounter that which says the ten commandments no longer apply in the life of a Christian today.

So romans 6 contradicts the apostle john.

Then our bible is flawed throw it out.

Dead to sin means we are not bound to it, not that we are sinless

Nothing you have said there fairly nor truthfully represents my post.

Your being dishonest.

How can I have a conversation with you if you are dishonest?

I showed you 1 John

You countered with romans 6

Your claim was romans 6 trumped 1 john (why else would you say it?)

And then I showed you what romand 6 actually meant.

I do I will and welcome back everybody misses you a lot.

God bless!

The dishonesty is not on my part. You demonstrate that you are not able to discuss this .

Studyman said:

What I do has no bearing on the way you all treat Shamah and other brothers on this forum, or the untruths you place on him. You will not be able to say to HIM in that day, "We abused and told lies about our brother because Studyman thinks the thief on the cross knew about YOU before he was hanged on the tree".

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Those who think this justifies SALVATION by works, are a fool. It is talking about Heavenly Rewards, AND Salvation is not a reward. Look at those in Mat. 7, who ALL thought they earned SALVATION by they Works:

Matthew 7:20-23 (HCSB)
20 So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
23 Then I will announce to them, 'I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’


The Primary Spiritual Fruit is LOVE, they mistakenly did those WORKS to earn favor from GOD, which is the WRONG MOTIVE. IT HAS TO BE OUT OF LOVE FOR HIM AND OTHERS.


1 John 3:14 (NIV)
14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers.
Anyone who does not love remains in death.


The Heavenly Rewards that he is Talking about in Rom. 2, have NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION. They are Crowns like the Crown of Life, or Crown of Righteousness, or Crown of Glory, etc. They are not the crown that a King wears, they are the Victor's Crown, such as in an Olympic style of games:

Size of leaves and fullness of leaves MAY be what it means by:

Romans 2:6 (NIV)
6 God "will give to each person according to what he has done."


But here is a serious warning to those who Compete without LOVE.


2 Timothy 2:5 (NIV)
5 Similarly, if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not receive the victor's crown unless he competes according to the rules.


And the RULES are YOU MUST HAVE THE MOTIVE OF SINCERE LOVE.

Now this is the VERSE you have MISINTERPRETED that it supports your erroneous THEORY that Salvation includes Works.


Romans 2:7 (HCSB)
7 eternal life to those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality;


That verse is NOT BECAUSE THEY DID THE WORKS, but BECAUSE they Proved their SALVATION was REAL by lovingly doing those kind of things out of SINCERE LOVE. Your MOTIVE has to BE BECAUSE YOU LOVE HIM AND OTHERS, and every other MOTIVE is pure wood, hay, and stubble, or Filthy Rags, ESPECIALLY Trying in VANE to be GOOD ENOUGH TO EARN SALVATION.


1 Corinthians 13:3 (NJB)
3 Though I should give away to the poor all that I possess, and even give up my body to be burned—
if I am without love, it will do me no good whatever.


LOVE comes FIRST, and Obedience spawns from LOVE, and it has NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION, which happened the first Day that YOU FIRST BELIEVED, as a FREE GIFT FROM GOD.

Your erroneous theory, only creates all kinds of CONTRADICTIONS in the Bible. My bible is without Contradictions. I have heard this before, years before I had my first computers, "So what, the Bible is full of Contradictions." Are you saying that is your theory too?

Thank you TruthTalk, that is very kind of you to say I hope you and yours are doing well!

PS~ I have shed 35 pounds and feel almost slim

="VCO, post: 3705293, member: 178202"]


I have never suggested I can save myself. That is a myth you created. I simply posted what the Christ inspired Paul to write. I wasn't addressing you, I'm sorry these scriptures stung you.

Matthew 7:20-23 (HCSB)

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Man's Love is as a filthy rag. Man believes they can replace God's Love with their own and get to heaven this way. Those in the verses you posted found out they couldn't "go in" on their own Love, but needed God's Love.

1 john 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

1 John 3:14 (NIV)

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Again, as my post said, calling a brother names and telling him he has fallen from Grace because he listens and strives to do what the Master instructs is not now, nor has it ever been God's Love.

Should we not strive to be in God's Love, and not our own?

The Heavenly Rewards that he is Talking about in Rom. 2, have NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION. They are Crowns like the Crown of Life, or Crown of Righteousness, or Crown of Glory, etc. They are not the crown that a King wears, they are the Victor's Crown, such as in an Olympic style of games:

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WHAT???????


So I must compete according to the rules or I won't receive the crown. But if I follow the rules, I'm trying to saved by MY works?

OK VCO, it's your religion.

Romans 2:7 (HCSB)

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But shouldn't a person who the Messiah died for listen to the Messiah? What do you have against God's Love that you would reject it and replace it with your own?

1 Corinthians 13:3 (NJB)

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Whose Love?

LOVE comes FIRST, and Obedience spawns from LOVE, and it has NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION, which happened the first Day that YOU FIRST BELIEVED, as a FREE GIFT FROM GOD.

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No, I don't believe my Bible has contradictions at all. It says the same in the beginning as it does in the end.

Gen. 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Gen. 26:
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Ex. 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Is. 56:
1 Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;

Matt. 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Rom. 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

1 Cor. 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Eph. 2:
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of (mans) works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. (Like Abraham)

Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Rev. 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

To keep the post short and forgo the scorn of others I only posted a few of the scriptures which show the Theme of the Bible from the beginning to the end.

"Many" who come in Christ's Name, will use a few verses out of context to destroy all this evidence of the "Will of God" for His people.

But I believe we should follow the Messiah and His instructions.

"Man shall not live by bread alone, but by "EVERY" Word of God."

"As I have Loved you, so love ye one another".