The Bride

On this Feast of Trumpets I was studying what the Scriptures have to say about the Bride of Christ. It is a fascinating study and worth a few minutes to read this article I found on the ancient Hebrew betrothal Custom.

http://hethathasanear.com/Betrothal.html

Most may not appreciate the similarities to how the Messiah described His bride, the church. But for those interested, please take note.

The bride is chosen by the husband, but this perspective bride has the choice to accept, or reject him. If she rejects Him, he leaves and never comes back.

Once she accepts the husband, the bride is "purchased" for a price. She is then "Betrothed" to her husband.

Then the husband goes away to prepare a place for them. No one knows how long this will take. But the Bride must wait is a prepared state, always having her lamps filled with oil for her husbands surprise return.

Then he returns suddenly with only a blast of a trumpet, calling her name, "as a thief in the night".

The Messiah describes His Church in almost exactly the same manner. I found it fascinating that this Holy Day helps to keep us in this state of preparedness while we wait for our Master's return.

No wonder Paul said to "Keep the Feast".

A senior member of our church brought me a printout of this and I went to the website so I could post it. I have often wondered on the Word's of the Holy Christ "Salvation is of the Jews". This surely bring me closer to understanding His Words.

I love how fellowship and sharing each others thoughts can bring us closer to the Mind of Christ. I am truly blessed to be surrounded by such faithful servants of the Most High.

I have a question. How can we be the Bride of Jesus Christ when throughout th Old Testamen Yahweh tell Israel, "I am your husband." Yahweh and Jesus are God and God is One......not only do I believe this, I feel I know it.

Of course all who truly believe Jesus Christ are Israel, and we await the New Jerusalem to come down brought by our Maker. Praise God Almighty always, He is always good.

Salvation has nothing to do with the flesh of any nation.

I agree, Salvation is whatever the Creator of it says it is.

John 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

Rom. 2:
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Rom. 11:
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, (Gentile) wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

I have a few questions of my own, in view of the OP ideas, which I will simply list without much elaboration:

2 Corinthians 11 -

"2 For I am jealous over you [corporate, plural 'you'] with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you [corporate, plural 'you'] to one husband, that I may present you [understood 'you' (corporate, plural)] as A CHASTE VIRGIN [SINGULAR] to Christ."

[this ^ is not the "TEN [or FIVE] virgins [plural] that will go "in with [G3326 - meta - accompanying] Him to the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" [earthly MK] Matt25:10,1-13 / Rev19:9 distinct from "the Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]" of Rev19:7 [aorist], where the "WITH [H4862 - syn -denoting 'UNION']" is used of the "bride/wife [singular]" elsewhere, where described]


Exodus 12:2 -

"2 This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you."

^ This wasn't "the seventh month" (feast of trumpets/Tishri/Rosh Hashanah/"head of the year").


Titus 1 -

"14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth."

Some like to suggest that Jesus still does not know (Matt24:36, which context, by the way, is His Second Coming to the earth [i.e. FOR earthly MK/wedding FEAST/SUPPER], not our Rapture [which is revealed and explained elsewhere, not in the Olivet Discourse context]).


Additionally, where Paul had said "keep the feast," he wasn't referring to "Rosh Hashanah" (the feast of trumpets).


I list all that briefly in order to mention an article I'd once read (too long ago to recall title or author) which showed some pretty significant discrepancies to this idea of how the current explanation is being presented (when compared with Scripture). I thought it was very insightful and showed how SOME of the ideas are not drawn from Scripture, but from [even FLAWED (inaccurate)] so called "[Jewish] tradition".


He is not returning at the point TO MARRY "TEN [or even FIVE] virgins [PLURAL]," but will be returning at that point as an ALREADY-WED Bridegroom WITH His already-wed "Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]" having already been "presented" and wed to Him (in Heaven); when He "returns" to the earth, this is where "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" passages take up the story (Lk12:36-37,38,40 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." THEN the meal; Matt22:9-14nasb; Matt25:1-13,10nasb; and the "shall sit down [G347 - at a meal/around a table]" Matt8:11 and parallel]

Without having opened the link in the OP, does the article address some of these issues? I'm pretty sure I wouldn't totally disagree with it in its entirety, but these few issues (if even addressed there) might be just a few of my concerns.

Thank you for your thoughtful reply.


First, just to clear the air. I never said the Feast of Trumpets and the Marriage of the Lamb were the same thing. Since you never read the article you wouldn't know what I was speaking to. There is a part of the ancient Hebrew "betrothal" custom where the Husband to be leaves the betrothed to "prepare a place for her" and she was to "wait in preparedness" for His return. When He returns, unannounced, like a thief in the night, there is a shout and the blowing of a horn to signify the groom to be return to gather His Betrothed and take her home.

Feast of Trumpets celebrates this "blowing of the Horn" when He returns.

I also never said Paul was speaking to Feast of Trumpets. My point is that Paul understood the significance of these feasts and the importance of their meaning as they describe the Salvation of our God. So of course he said "Let us keep the feast". One without the others would be a vanity in my opinion. What good is Unleavened bread without Passover. What good is Pentecost without Feast of Trumpets. I should have been more clear in my post.

As for your interpretation of the Virgins Parable the Messiah gave us.

Matt. 25:
1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

This says they were virgins, which certainly implies they were not yet married. Betrothed yes, Paid for, Yes, but not yet married. It also calls the MAN a "Bride Groom" not a husband which also tells me they are not yet married.

2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

There is no Biblical support for the teaching that the Messiah marries His Church, then abandons them with no known date of return. But as He says, I will first prepare a place for you, then He will return to gather her unto myself. Until then His people are betrothed.

In the same way as we are "mortal" now and will remain "mortal" until the return of the Messiah who will "Give us the Gift" of immortality. Then this mortal will have put on immortality, THEN is the victory.

1 Cor. 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

John 14:
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

He has not yet done this, we can still become lazy, and refuse to be prepared when He comes back, or do as Eve and commit spiritually adultery by listening to another voice..

2 Cor. 11:
2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

If he are already married, we would already be with Him, and Paul would not have to worry about us listening to other voices and follow another's instructions.

6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

If they were already married, then He would not have taken them "To the Marriage". If he had already Married them, He would not have "shut the Door" on the foolish ones. They were "betrothed" or promised to the groom. He paid the Price for them, but the Wedding and the Wedding feast doesn't happen until after He returns.

11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

Matt. 22:
4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:

Luke 12:
36 And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.

He has prepared the place, the Wedding and the wedding Dinner is ready, the Virgins have been betrothed, but the Wedding has not yet taken place.

37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them

These are good discussions to have among brothers, thank you for your reply.

Well, I'm not suggesting that He is "already-wed [married]" NOW. That is one of the purposes of our Rapture (which pertains solely to "the Church which is His body," not to all other saints of all OTHER time periods). I'm saying, before His "RETURN" to the earth (He will be already-wed; which takes place in Heaven, Rev19:7 aorist).

As for "Bridegroom" meaning "not yet married," I must disagree, by reason of John 2 "the marriage [feast] at Cana":

"9 When the ruler of the feast [see v.8 also] had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew; ) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom," (it was the responsibility of "the bridegroom" to provide "the wine" AT [for] HIS OWN "wedding feast/supper"... this is why Jesus had said to His mother, in verse 4, "Woman, what have I to do with thee? Mine hour is not yet come.")

Are you saying that the couple (about whom this celebration pertained) was not yet wed?

It is my understanding that "the marriage" ITSELF was a private, intimate event (the couple themselves and FEW others), whereas the public celebration OF IT ("the wedding FEAST/SUPPER") came after the week of intimacy. And this is the SEQUENCE as is also shown in the distinction between Rev19:7 (aorist; re: the MARRIAGE itself; pertaining to "the BRIDE/WIFE [singular]") and that of Rev19:9 (NOT "aorist" but where they are now heading down to, FOR "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" /the earthly MK--where the "guests [plural]," the "10 or 5 bridesmaids/virgins [plural]," and the "servants [plural]" of that specific time period, have never lifted off the earth, but are awaiting His "RETURN" [to the earth], FOR the promised and prophesied earthly MK).

"The wedding FEAST/SUPPER" is the earthly MK (its inauguration).

I was just posting scriptures. I'm not sure I agree that the scripture you posted in John 2, makes void the parable of the 10 virgins.

As far as I understand, the Man goes away after his bride is betrothed and paid for, and prepares a place for her, the dinner, and the wedding. When He returns to her at an undisclosed time, if she is prepared, He completes their relationship, consummates their wedding and they become one.

What I do know is their relationship is different after He returns and takes her home, than it was while she was "Waiting" for His return.

MK).

Yes, That is true. But there is no evidence that this "private event" happens BEFORE He has "gone and prepared a place for her". Just the opposite. The "private event, the wedding feast, the wedding, all occur "AFTER" He returns from "Preparing a place for Her".

If she is waiting and prepared, they move on and become one. If she is not waiting and prepared, He leaves her.

I don't believe there are any scriptures which can negate this understanding.

Rev. 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

Does He not First "prepare a place for His Betrothed"? Prepare the Dinner, Prepare the Wedding?

I think you are misunderstanding what I'm saying.

I'm saying PRESENTLY we are "betrothed" (while He is away). THEN our Rapture occurs (one of the purposes is for "the MARRIAGE" ITSELF--that is, between the Bridegroom and the Bride/Wife [singular], and few others present, certainly the Father). Then they [we] are secluded together for the week. DURING this time, people ON THE EARTH will be conducting "THE INVITATION" TO "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" (which is the MK ON THE EARTH, commencing upon HIS "RETURN" there--the FEAST/SUPPER is not "up IN Heaven" and is not the purpose of our "Rapture," the "MARRIAGE" ITSELF is [one of the purposes (for the meeting "IN THE AIR")]). THEN they [we] (after they [we] are wed [IN HEAVEN]) return TO THE EARTH (where the "plural guests" ["having been invited" aorist], and the "plural bridesmaids/virgins" [who will "go in WITH [G3326, NOT G4862] Him to the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" Mt25:10nasb, Mt22:9-14nasb, Lk12:36-37,38,40 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." THEN the meal [also Mt8:11 and parallel--G347 "shall sit down [at a meal/around a table]; also the "plural servants" of that time period; NONE of whom ever lift off the earth [these "plurals" are not raptured, but are either saints who have come to faith WITHIN the trib [i.e. after our Rapture], or in the case of some listed in Mt8:11, are resurrected-[to stand again on the earth]-OT saints)



The wedding FEAST/SUPPER is the promised and prophesied earthly MK, commencing [or being inaugurated] upon His "RETURN" there [as ALREADY-WED]. (See verses such as Lk22:30,16,18 and Mt19:28 [25:31-34 for TIMING], and Mt26:29, as I believe these show what occurs upon His "return" to the earth)

Thank you for the cordial discussion.

the bridegroom saves the best for last...

Along with the other passages I supplied, I believe this verse could be added (though slow to edit ):

https://biblehub.com/hebrews/7-22.htm

Its seems many desire to make it about this creation "flesh and blood". and not that what we are called (no longer male and female Jew nor gentile . God is neither man or a woman. Others insist on walking by sight as if there was a division .

From the very start as a parable using the temporal things seen to demonstrate the unseen eternal things. God uses metaphors as a loving suitor pursuing His cherished beloved bride (the church) and how by the deceiver humanity has been deceived from the arms of our rightful husband, Christ.

We have the whole book of Song of Songs that speaks of His pursuit of the bride (the church) And Isaiah 62 the Holy Spirit speaks of the promised new name previously called Zion the heavenly Jerusalem that he did name His bride the church in the book of Acts .Called Christian, a word when defined and no other meaning added simply means "residents of the city of Christ" as prepared as His bride, the mother of us all.

Note …. (purple in parenthesis)my added opinions

Isaiah 62:1-4 King James Version (KJV)
For Zion's (Christ's bride) sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth.And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name,(Christian) which the mouth of the Lord shall name. Thou shalt also be a crown of glory in the hand of the Lord, and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God.Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the Lord delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.(incorruptible) For as a young man marrieth a virgin,(Christ's bride) so shall thy sons (the new creation neither male nor female) marry thee: (Christ) and as the bridegroom (Christ) rejoiceth over the bride,(the church) so shall thy God rejoice over thee.(the chaste virgin bride)

We find the same kind of parable according to the prescription in 2 Corintians 4:18, using the temporal things seen to give us the spiritual unseen eternal understanding in the last verse above.

"For as a young man(Christ) marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons (the new creation nither make nor female) marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee".(his bride the church)

Paul, no longer considered male or female, Jew nor Gentile working as a mother espouseing Timothy in who Paul labored as in birth pains until Christ the seed of the woman was formed in Timothy as a chaste virgin bride .The kind that had the oil (Holy Spirit)

2 Corinthians 11:2 King James Version (KJV) For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, (Christ)that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Jesus the real macho, macho man .

To clarify/condense my previous posts,

… to be accurate biblically, the word "RETURN" (when it is used of Him) speaks of His Second Coming to the earth [not our Rapture], at which point "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" [MK] will commence. Our "Rapture" does not take place at His "RETURN" but will already be accomplished (i.e. "the MARRIAGE" itself, Rev19:7 [aorist], concerning "the Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]"--the "A CHASTE VIRGIN {SINGULAR]" of 1Cor11:2). The plural INVITED [GUESTS] "THOSE" of Rev19:9 are not to be equated with the singular "Bride/Wife" of verse 7 (v.7 aorist, already-wed [IN HEAVEN] by this point). Rev19:9 (re: "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" [the earthly MK]) hasn't happened or commenced yet at this point, but is where they (the Bridegroom & Wife [singular]) are now heading down to (the earthly MK).

The word "RETURN" is used (regarding Him) in Luke 12:36-37,38,40 and context, speaking of His Second Coming to the earth (NOT our Rapture), "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." THEN the meal [see also G347 - in Mt8:11 and parallel], and in Luke 19:12,15,17,19 and context (regarding same--His return to the earth, NOT our Rapture). The word "RETURN" is commonly spoken of when speaking of our Rapture, but this is not biblically accurate. Both of the passages (using the word "RETURN" [and referring to His return]) are in the context of His Second Coming to the earth (at which point, the MARRIAGE itself is "aorist"/already happened [IN HEAVEN--with US PRESENT THERE], and now returning WITH HIM, FOR "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" to which others [all the plurals I'd listed] will "HAVING BEEN INVITED" [DURING the trib on the earth], who have never lifted off the earth but will be awaiting His "RETURN" [having come to faith WITHIN the trib years--"the righteous"/the "BLESSED"])

Just for consideration (along with what I've already put):

[for example] John the Baptist wasn't tasked with "PRESENTING" the bride/"A CHASTE VIRGIN [SINGULAR]" to Christ (the "One Husband" of 2Cor11:2)

John 3:29 [ylt] -

"29 he who is having the bride is bridegroom, and the friend of the bridegroom, who is standing and hearing him, with joy doth rejoice because of the voice of the bridegroom; this, then, my joy hath been fulfilled." [and he died well before Jesus' death and resurrection]


It wasn't John the Baptist who was tasked with presenting the "A CHASTE VIRGIN [SINGULAR]" to Christ; Paul was.

There is no evidence to support that the Messiah returns twice. Certainly not in the Salvation of God defined in His Holy Days.

You are placing a lot of emphasis on two scriptures which don't really say what you are implying.

So we will just disagree on this part.

Luke 12:
35 Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning;
36 And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.

37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.


Rev. 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

Correct. He only "RETURNS" ONCE (His Second Coming TO THE EARTH)

--Lk12:36-37,38,40 ALL "Son of man cometh/coming/shall come/etc" verses/passages refer to His Second Coming TO THE EARTH [not our Rapture ("IN THE AIR")]

Both of these passages speak to His Second Coming TO THE EARTH.


______

Then compare also the wording in Lk 12 (you bolded) with what is said TO, FOR, and ABOUT "the Church which is His body" in 1Th5:9-10 "that whether we may watch, or whether we may sleep [same word as in VERSE 6 (NOT speaking of "DEATH" here!)] we should live together WITH [G4862 denoting UNION] Him (not G3362 used elsewhere of the PLURAL "virgins" who will ACCOMPANY Him into the FEAST/SUPPER/earthly MK, Matt25:10nasb)

Yes, to the Bridegroom when He returned from preparing a place for her so they can be married and become one. That is why Paul is tasked with "presenting" then a chaste virgin, prepared for His coming. Not present them as a wife who is already one with her husband.

It's not a hill to die on, but the Christ wouldn't close the door on His Wife, "And the two shall become one". But He would take who was waiting for Him, and leave those who were not prepared for His return for the wedding.. In my opinion.

Matthew 25:1-13 (and Matt22:9-14; and Lk12:36-37,38,40) is talking about when He returns to the earth FOR the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom [the marriage FEAST/SUPPER (MK)] (as an ALREADY-WED Bridegroom) and these are NOT "the Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]" whom He already just UNIONED WITH [G4862] in HEAVEN ("the MARRIAGE" aorist--the marriage FEAST/SUPPER is NOT AORIST at this point [Rev19! (future to now)], but THE MARRIAGE surely IS [aorist]! [in that future point in time, meaning at Rev19])


In Matthew 25, it is referring to PLURAL "virgins" (pertaining to "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER [earthly MK]")... NOT the SINGULAR "virgin" Paul is speaking of (pertaining to the "UNION," the "MARRIAGE" itself, the "Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]" of Rev19:7 aorist--already accomplished, and PRESENT "WITH HIM", before His "RETURN" to the earth).

...so "the door" you speak of (in that Matthew 25 context) refers to their entering or not entering the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom, commencing upon His "RETURN" to the earth. The "Bride/Wife" is not being spoken of here (nor in the Matt22 and Lk12 contexts).


Those who will "go in WITH [G3362 - meta - ACCOMPANYING] Him to the wedding FEAST" [the earthly MK] are not "G4862" to Him - [UNIONED/MARRIED; "G4862 with" is used of "the Church which is His body"... US, but not the 10 (or 5) virgins. He is not MARRYING TEN or FIVE VIRGINS (PLURAL)!]