Is Prosperity For The Present Church?

it is hard for me to tell if youre a troll

or if you actually believe these things you are saying

Ok, this really made me laugh! You keep talking about earthly treasures, trying to justify your erroneous doctrine. You twist various verses to fit your narrative, to mean "rich right here and now" ignoring the multitude of verses that show how wrong your false doctrine is.

But then you do an about face, when confronted with your nonsense, and make it to say that we have to make our "treasures" now, so we will have them in heaven. As in material treasures! Like heaven would need such filthy things!

I don't know how anyone could be more mixed up. Either you take the heinous position of Word Faith and make it about everyone gets riches now, or you have to admit you were wrong and the purpose of our "treasures" is to store them in heaven. Which is certainly NOT in the text, the chapter, or the purpose of the Sermon on the Mount. (This passage is part of that sermon - perhaps read it all!)

Context! Context! Context!

"19 “Do not accumulate for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But accumulate for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." Matt 6:19-21

So far, we have established this text is part of the Sermon on the Mount. Someone already posted Matt 5, but let's review the first part.

"When he saw the crowds, he went up the mountain. After he sat down his disciples came to him. 2 Then he began to teach them by saying:

3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to them.
4 “Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.
5 “Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.
6 “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be satisfied.
7 “Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.
8 “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
9 “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called the children of God.
10 “Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to them.
11 “Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you and say all kinds of evil things about you falsely on account of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad because your reward is great in heaven, for they persecuted the prophets before you in the same way." Matt 5:1-11

I'm not seeing one reference to being rich, physically. I am seeing how God helps those who are spiritually poor, are persecuted and are peacemakers. There's a good topic! Why not develop a doctrine about peacemaking? Oh right, you aren't sure how it would mesh with Old Testaments commands to occupy the land. Again, a study of covenants would help you there! (Thanks 7seas!)

Back to Matt 6.

"No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money." Matt 6:24

So, which are you despising, with your focus on money? Just curious! Oh wait, I guess God just drops the money on your lap? Because making a lot of money usually takes a lot of focus. And, before you come back at me about my poverty, again, I am quite comfortable in this life. We spent 20 years being dirt poor, but honoring God and putting him first. One day we turned around, and we had enough money for the rest of our lives. Oh, not for mansions, but a nice home, and cars, boats all paid for. Comfortable, as I said.

"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink, or about your body, what you will wear. Isn’t there more to life than food and more to the body than clothing? 26 Look at the birds in the sky: They do not sow, or reap, or gather into barns, yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Aren’t you more valuable than they are? 27 And which of you by worrying can add even one hour to his life? 28 Why do you worry about clothing? Think about how the flowers of the field grow; they do not work or spin. 29 Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his glory was clothed like one of these! 30 And if this is how God clothes the wild grass, which is here today and tomorrow is tossed into the fire to heat the oven, won’t he clothe you even more, you people of little faith? 31 So then, don’t worry saying, ‘What will we eat?’ or ‘What will we drink?’ or ‘What will we wear?’ 32 For the unconverted pursue these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33 But above all pursue his kingdom and righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34 So then, do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Today has enough trouble of its own." Matt 6:25-34

This is following right after the verse you mentioned, plus the verse on not serving God and money. And what does it say?

That in fact, we are NOT to worry about our needs! God will provide for our needs, but nowhere does it say anything about riches or money. I guess Jesus already dealt with that in verse 24. Don't serve money, serve God. Why any preacher of the gospel would get pulled into this ridiculous heresy is beyond me.

Anyway, back to the final passage in Matt 6! It says the unconverted pursue food, drink and clothing. But, as Christians, what are we to pursue?

"But above all pursue his kingdom and righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well." Matt 6:33.

What you are encouraging is they very opposite of this verse! We are not to focus at all on material things, although, in my case, anyway, we did become comfortable, partly because we focused on God and his righteousness.

First, aren't you a preacher in Africa? It no longer says in the profile, as it did on the old format. Whether I am right or not doesn't matter. The point is, this disgusting North American Word Faith or prosperity gospel exists, and it has been exported to places like Africa.

My former Greek professor does a lot of teaching in Africa. He said the local churches are being obliterated, as people flock to these new prosperity gospels, and then give and give when they have so little, and get nothing in return. Of course, the tide will turn. Or maybe all those converts to Christianity will walk away, when they realize these false teachers have fleeced them of what little they have, for a false gospel.

My advice to you, is to study hermeneutics. Every single post you have had on this thread, has bad hermeneutics. You start with your faulty supposition, (God wants me to be materially rich) and then pull bits and pieces out of Scripture, heedless of context or whether it actually applies to New Testament Christians and then cobble together a bad, unsound doctrine to prove your point.

I would challenge you to read the whole chapter of Matthew 6. Then read the whole Sermon on the Mount. Jesus is not promising riches. The only one promising that is false prosperity gospel preachers, like you. Much more to say, but this post is already too long!

How about low income Christian?

I don't fight falsehood with emotional fits. I like fighting falsehood with the truth.

Dear,

This scripture you quoted here actually refers to the rich not the poor. To know how to have plenty and sometime want is the lot of only the rich.

The poor never know how to abound they only know how to be in want

What about them?

“A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you. And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.” – Ezekiel 36:26-30 (emphasis mine)

It is commonly argued that prosperity is not for the New Testament Church. And that as a matter of fact, the entire prosperity doctrine is false…

But from the highlighted clauses of the opening text, it is obvious that such arguments are not true. The opening text is a copy of the New Covenant as prophesied by the Prophet Ezekiel. And it was fulfilled and ratified by the death of Christ on the cross. By the sacrifice of Christ on the cross, anyone who believes in him (Jesus) becomes an automatic partaker of the New Covenant, and all its tenets.

And as a result, anyone who believes in Christ receives a change of heart, and the Holy Spirit as stated in the Covenant…

And in much the same way, anyone who believes in the Lord Jesus Christ, also becomes a partaker of the prosperity clauses of the same New Covenant (Ezekiel 36: 29-30).

It is also argued that this Covenant is actually directed at the Jews. That is true. But however, the scripture tells us that we are fellow-citizens with the saints through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross. And that the wall of partition between us and the Jew was broken in his flesh. Hence, we—Gentiles—also have access to the Covenants of promise (Ephesians 2:11-19).

If we believe that every Christian under the New Covenant already has changed hearts. And the Holy Spirit indwelling in them, to enable them keep the statutes of God as it is contained in the New Covenant, we shouldn’t also have problem believing that every believer is also prosperous.

Here are the divine prosperity clauses of the New Covenant again from the book of Ezekiel 36: 29-30;

“I also will save you from all your uncleanness: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you. And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen”

In the above scripture, the Lord clearly promises us prosperity. And he assures us of not receiving anymore reproach of famine among the heathen.

Now a matter must be established in the mouth of two or three witnesses. So let us consider another scripture that guarantees that divine prosperity is for the present church;

“Moreover, brethren, we do you to wit of the grace of God bestowed on the Churches of Macedonia; how that in a great trial of affliction the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded unto the riches of their liberality. For to their power, I bear record, yea, and beyond their power they were willing of themselves; praying us with much intreaty that we would receive the gift, and take upon us the fellowship of ministering to the saints. And this they did, not as we hoped, but first gave their own selves to the Lord, and unto us by the will of God. Insomuch that we desired Titus, that as he had begun, so he would also finish in you the same grace also. Therefore, as ye abound in everything, in faith, and utterance, and knowledge, and in all diligence, and in your love to us, see that ye abound in this grace also.

I speak not by commandment but by occasion of the forwardness of others, and to prove the sincerity of your love. For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor; that ye through his poverty might be rich.” –2Corinthians 8:1-9

I had to quote this particular scripture to this length so we can get the exact context. Because many say it is being interpreted out of context. The above scripture is clearly talking about the giving grace God bestowed upon the Macedonian churches. Verse 2 says in their great trial of affliction, the abundance of their Joy and their deep poverty abounded unto the riches of their liberality. So clearly, this scripture is talking about the giving grace.

Then in verse 7 the Apostle Paul admonishes the Corinthians that as they abound or increase in spiritual gifts such as faith, utterance, knowledge, diligence, and love, they should see to it that they also abound or increase in the giving grace also. Then in verse 9 he says;

“For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.”

Concerning the above verse (verse 9), many argue that the riches referred to here are spiritual riches. But saying that will imply that the Apostle Paul meant;

“For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was spiritually rich, yet for your sakes he became spiritually poor, that ye through his spiritual poverty might be spiritually rich.”

Of course, the above quotation can’t be farther from the truth. It is scripturally obvious that Jesus was never spiritually poor while he was here on earth. He couldn’t have been spiritually poor, after living a blameless, holy life… After healing all manners of sickness and diseases. And even after raising the dead. No. The true interpretation is;

“For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was materially rich, yet for your sakes he became materially poor, that ye through his material poverty might be materially rich”.

The above interpretation is in perfect harmony with scriptural truth. We all know that the only poverty the Lord suffered while he was here on earth was material poverty. Especially not having where to lay his head. Hence, he suffered material poverty so we can enjoy material riches.

I agree divine prosperity and the prosperity doctrine has been abused and pushed to some extremes by many folks. But like I always say, doctrinal and other abuses or extremism is not only the vice of the prosperity doctrine. Other doctrines such as grace, deliverance, faith, sanctification, etc…

have also been abused and pushed to the extreme. But the panacea or antidote is not to entirely reject these true and wholesome scriptural doctrines.

Because doing so will amount to throwing the tares along with the wheat. And it will thus, create loopholes for the devil to take advantage of. Instead, we should study our bibles carefully and pray more fervently so we will be able to receive the right spiritual insight to be able to separate the shafts from the wheats.

So here we have it. Divine prosperity is for the present Church. Firstly, because it is a part of the New Covenant; and secondly, our Lord Jesus Christ, substituted his earthly material poverty for it.

Remain Blessed!

Emeke Odili.

Dear Brothers and Sisters in the Lord,

It's ok if you don't accept the prosperity doctrine. But all the same we must remember that we are still brothers and sisters.

I am actually sharing my sermons with the intention of helping. I don't have any other hidden agenda.

The motive behind my teaching is simply this:

It's all working for me by the grace of God...

Let me share my secrets of all-round success with my brethren so they can succeed as well.

Then for clarification.

I don't receive my wealth by cajoling anyone. Instead I do more of giving and helping. But its just that the more I give, the more I receive because that's what the word of God says.

Then as for receiving. I receive from the Lord primarily through the works of my hand.

I am a freelance multi-lingual programmer, when I am not ministering. And of course, you would agree with me, that making money from programming is not a light thing.

When you work with programs such as Java, PHP and Python, you can't possibly be said to be receiving money for jam.

But I thank God for the great empowerment and opportunities he has given me to make wealth. I thank God for blessing me to be a blessing.

Dear Brothers and Sisters in the Lord,

It's ok if you don't accept the prosperity doctrine. But all the same we must remember that we are still brothers and sisters.

I am actually sharing my sermons with the intention of helping. I don't have any other hidden agenda.

The motive behind my teaching is simply this:

It's all working for me by the grace of God...

Let me share my secrets of all-round success with my brethren so they can succeed as well.

Then for clarification.

I don't receive my wealth by cajoling anyone. Instead I do more of giving and helping. But its just that the more I give, the more I receive because that's what the word of God says.

Then as for receiving. I receive from the Lord primarily through the works of my hand.

I am a freelance multi-lingual programmer, when I am not ministering. And of course, you would agree with me, that making money from programming is not a light thing.

When you work with programs such as Java, PHP and Python, you can't possibly be said to be receiving money for jam.

But I thank God for the great empowerment and opportunities he has given me to make wealth. I thank God for blessing me to be a blessing.

If Christian must prosper ( earthly rich) how about the poor, is the poor mean not Christian?

Peter declare himself AS a poor

Acts 3:6 King James Version (KJV)

6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.

I think you're misconstruing my words.
I did not say the Christian must prosper. I believe it is wrong to think Christians aren't allowed to prosper due to some interpretation of scriptures that let someone believe that way.
Which is why I suggested anyone who thinks it is wrong for a Christian to prosper, or have money, or work to acquire financial security, should give poverty a try. Because really the argument that prosperity is wrong for the church gives only one option to the contrary.

Which is why I suggested anyone who thinks it is wrong for a Christian to prosper, or have money, or work to acquire financial security, should give poverty a try.

I will say this for you. You remain polite and show Grace to those, like myself, that vehemently disagree with your doctrine.

If you are blessed with resources from the Lord then I would say you ought to quietly bless others with them. Tell them how Jesus is THE Savior. Give them the Gospel unto Salvation. Pray for them. But please, don't even hint at the idea that by accepting Jesus they will receive material wealth here on Earth. If that happens to them, praise Jesus! But that MUST NOT be the incentive to receive Him.

I have read this entire thread, and don't remember one person saying it was wrong to have money, and not to work and put money aside. Of course, you should do that if God leads you to. And yes, that will lead to more giving, but not pressured by some charlatan on TV or at a outreach or meeting.

The objection to the Prosperty gospel, is that it brings condemnation down on Christians who are honest and faithful, but are also poor. It is a Judgment on their standing with God.

Further, when it becomes the focus of life, money is the root of all evil. It is not about having money, but how do you use it? And how much of your time do you spend obsessing about it, when you have ENOUGH!

Finally, the biggest objection, is that the Word Faith teachers with their sowing and reaping, or planting seeds, con people who can barely afford it, out of their money. This is especially heinous in Africa, where there is no social welfare system, and giving up your goat so you will get two goats ends up giving you starvation, for your whole family.

If evangelist preaching the gospel just presents the pure gospel, and don't offer monetary rewards for coming to Christ, there is no problem. I knew a woman in seminary, and they got conned into giving all their retirement savings to some Word Faith con artist. They waited and waited for their blessing, but instead her husband lost her job. So they had nothing.

She decided to take some courses, and learn what God really says in the Bible. And that is the point, isn't it? God never promises health and wealth anywhere in the Bible. That's just bad exegesis and hermeneutics. I fight that wherever I see it.

Our relationship with God should be based on who he is, not on what we can get! My husband and I have lived through lean times, and times where we were blessed. We were never disappointed if we didn't have enough money, although we have certainly praised God for coming through for us in a hard time. We just kept serving and loving God. Anything else is just false doctrine. Too bad so many have been sucked into that dark void of Word Faith, and come out damaged and hurting!

PS. Again, we are not poor today, but I would not call us wealthy, either. Try, content! Like Paul says!

I do agree with this statement. If a person prospers because they have been endowed with whatever abilities, strengths and they work hard and put the abilities to good use this is not wrong. I think this is true for all people Christian or not.

Both Christians and non-Christians have varying amounts of abilities.
Both Christians and non-Christians can encounter financial difficulties based on things outside of their control or even within their control, if they have not been good stewards.

The problem is when people preach that by the very fact that one is a Christian they will be blessed and prosper, then they are sending the wrong message.

There is a lot of personal effort that goes into acquiring and maintaining wealth, but prosperity teachers seem to want to deny this it seems to me.

That's true. Had I meant to say someone in this thread had said it was wrong to have money I would have used their name. Since I never did do that that would mean I never did say that.
I think this discussion would go much better if false implications would stop. I know there are those who like to play the passive aggressive card in forums, not you, if I meant you I would use your name. However, that isn't of Christ and should be evident in itself.
Talk about the thread subject and what someone actually says. That is just simple respect.