Can the Word of G-d really be a balance between them both?

I talked with someone today who changed his mind about the interpretation about most of the Scripture. He was over 40 years a certain denomination... He said he realized if he was alone on an island and just read the Scripture, he would take it at face value and now believes, once Saved always Saved, the gifts of the Holy Spirit did not stop after Messiah, and creation is just as is plainly written in Scripture.

What amazed me most was this man decided both Calvinism and Arminianism are both correct and wrong? Can that be or does it have to be one or the other, because … well... theology is "human" and we know that is always right!?!

Can the Word of G-d really be a balance between them both?

I guess it would be a good idea to see if there is a recognized definition of Arminianism.. I have never seen a person offer a clear definition..

I am not a calvinist because i researched it and got the definition of it.. Calvinism is contained in the 5 point T.U.L.I.P doctrines.. I will post them here::




"T" in "TULIP" stands for "Total Hereditary Depravity."
"Because of the fall, man is unable of himself to savingly believe the gospel. The sinner is dead, blind, and deaf to the things of God; his heart is deceitful and desperately corrupt. His will is not free, it is in bondage to his evil nature, therefore, he will not - indeed he cannot - choose good over evil in the spiritual realm. Consequently, it takes much more than the Spirit's assistance to bring a sinner to Christ - it takes regeneration by which the Spirit makes the sinner alive and gives him a new nature. Faith is not something man contributes to salvation but is itself a part of God's gift of salvation - it is God's gift to the sinner, not the sinner's gift to God."





"U" in "TULIP" stands for "Unconditional Election" (Predestination).
"God's choice of certain individuals unto salvation before the foundation of the world rested solely in His own sovereign will. His choice of particular sinners was not based on any foreseen response of obedience on their part, such as faith, repentance, etc. On the contrary, God gives faith and repentance to each individual whom He selects. These acts are the result, not the cause of God's choice. Election therefore was not determined by or conditioned upon any virtuous quality or act foreseen in man. Those whom God sovereignty elected He brings through the power of the Spirit to a willing acceptance of Christ. Thus God's choice of the sinner, not the sinner's choice of Christ, is the ultimate cause of salvation."





"L" in "TULIP" stands for "Limited Atonement."
"Christ's redeeming work was intended to save the elect only and actually secured salvation for them. His death was substitutionary endurance of the penalty of sin in the place of certain specified sinners. In addition to putting away the sins of His people, Christ's redemption secured everything necessary for their salvation, including faith which unites them to Him. The gift of faith is infallibly applied by the Spirit to all for whom Christ died, therefore guaranteeing their salvation."





"I" in "TULIP" stands for "Irresistible Grace."
"In addition to the outward general call to salvation which is made to everyone who hears the gospel, the Holy Spirit extends to the elect a special inward call that inevitably brings them to salvation. The internal call (which is made only to the elect) cannot be rejected; it always results in conversion. By means of this special call the Spirit irresistibly draws sinners to Christ. He is not limited in His work of applying salvation by man's will, nor is he dependant upon man's cooperation for success. The Spirit graciously causes the elect sinner to cooperate, to believe, to repent, to come freely and willingly to Christ. God's grace, therefore, is invincible; it never fails to result in the salvation of those to whom it is extended."





"P" in "TULIP" stands for "Perseverance of the Saints."
All who are chosen by God, redeemed by Christ, and given faith by the Spirit are eternally saved. They are kept in faith by the power of the almighty God and thus preserved to the end."

calvinism and arminianism are simply man-made philosophies, built from gathering scriptures here and there.

On a practical level its largely meaningless. The church has survived just fine without either one of them existing in a systematic format.

But is there a balance? Certainly. The Bible DOES teach predestination. The Bible DOES teach free-will.

I'm a biblicist . . . I've given up on the -isms long ago.

Reading the scriptures to define who God is what he does and doesnt do , how he works and so on put him in a box.
His ways are higher, his thoughts are higher, he knows the end from the beginning.
Salvation issues should be dogmatic. Through Christ and Christ alone. When we are born again and through faith begin to have a relationship with the father through the son led by the Holy Spirit then we begin to see through the glass more clearly.
Jesus asked a very important question of Peter....who do you say I am....not how do you think I do things or why did you think I've come.
Jesus also siad with God all things are possible.
I've had one of my pastors always exclaimed when he came to doctrinal or theroy issues to avoid discourse and personal beliefs say
"I don't know how or why God did it but I'm glad he did."

The bible does not preach salvation alone, it teaches us to be also guided by the Holy Spirit and to be great in the kingdom of heaven. You can be no better than an atheist as it says in Timothy about people who neglect their parents as an example of sin and be saved because of a trust in Jesus. Romans 3:24.

If we study Calvin, Luther, or any human interpreter of the bible instead of searching the bible and the times each biblical book was written in so we understand what the words he used meant to him that he used to explain what he heard from God we are going to get things wrong. Plenty of scripture interpretation that is generally accepted today came directly from the church fathers of the first century who were steeped in worship of idols.

The first church fathers knew scripture as was the Jew's way, but they were killed off by 325 and ex pagans took over the church. They did not understand the references to OT the NT is full of but interpreted on what they knew. So our doctrine has lots of their mix of pagan and God worship.

There are people that believe OSAS is true, that they cannot fall from grace.

And then some people say a person can fall from grace if they do not do right, being led of the Spirit, which in other words do not be a hypocrite holding unto sin.

It is not really saved by works, but it is allow the Spirit to lead you, and do the works of the Spirit, which we know only a Spirit led life is saved.

Which there is no excuse for sin, or hypocrisy, for a Spirit led life will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, for they have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts, and will show the ways of the Spirit, which no ways of the flesh are there.

And God will not allow them to be tempted above what they are able, and will give them an escape from the temptation, so they can endure it.

The Bible says the Lord knows them that are His having this seal, for this is what seals the saints, and how they are led of the Spirit, that everyone that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

And God said do not be like those in the wilderness that was rebellious by departing from the living God, by the deceitfulness of sins.

The OSAS people say they cannot abstain from sin, and they sin daily, and sin does not affect their relationship with God, but this is not a true statement for if they hate sin, and do not want sin, they can abstain from sin.

So it appears as if they do not hate sin, and want sin, which then they are not led of the Spirit, for if they say they cannot abstain from sin then they testify against themselves that they do sin, and do not cease from sin, for they say they cannot abstain from sin.

But the Bible says that if a person wilfully sins, holds unto sin, after having the knowledge of the truth that God hates sin, and does not want us to sin, then there is no more sacrifice for that sin, which means the blood of Jesus cannot take it away.

So the OSAS are incorrect in their interpretation of this matter, and the people that believe you have to abstain from sin are correct.

Strike 1 for OSAS.

The OSAS believes that God chooses who will be saved, and not saved, in the beginning without the choice of the person.

But then that would mean God's kingdom is not true love, for they only accepted the truth for they had no choice seeing no other alternative, and God is not evil to condemn people that have no choice but to reject the truth seeing no other alternative.

Which it goes against the nature of God, which a saint should understand the nature of God.

Also if OSAS is true then their faith is not real, their hope is not real, their love is not real, their confession of Christ is not real, their repenting of their sins is not real, for it did not come from them but God.

Also the Bible says that God commands all people to repent, and to come to the knowledge of the truth, and be saved, and Jesus lights every person that is born in to this world, which all people have the opportunity to see the light of Jesus and be saved, and the Spirit and the bride say Come, and anybody can have that salvation, and the Lord is not willing that any perish, but all come to the truth and be saved.

Also the Bible says for many are called, but few are chosen, which means God does the calling and choosing on earth, and if God chose in the beginning then why is He calling people that cannot be chosen.

God chose us we did not choose Him, for when He calls a person He will work with them to get them to the truth, but they have to make the choice to walk through the door, which many do not get that far, which is why many are called, but few are chosen.

Which walking through the door of truth means acknowledging that God hates sin, and to abstain from sins by the Spirit.

But some have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof, ever learning and never able to come the knowledge of the truth, and it points out their sins, for they are lovers of pleasures, things of the world, more than lovers of God.

God does the calling and choosing on earth, and He chose us we did not choose Him, for when God calls a person they could of never gotten to the door of truth, unless God intervened in their life, but they have to make the choice to walk through that door for God's kingdom is love.

So God wants all people to be saved, and calls and chooses people on earth, so OSAS seems to be incorrect, and the people that believe you must abstain from sins to be saved is correct.

Strike 2 for OSAS.

The Bible says love works no ill towards their neighbor, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law, and Jesus said to the disciples a new commandment I give you that you love each other as I have loved you.

And Paul said we do not void out the law through faith, but we establish the law, and the law is spiritual, holy, just, and good, the laws of love, moral laws.

Out of faith, hope, and charity, love in action, charity is the greatest, and faith works by love, so no love then no faith.

Paul said that charity thinks no evil, does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth to abstain from sins, and is not unkind, not selfish, not arrogant, and only goes by their needs, and not their wants, and to help the poor and needy if possible.

But we see many people that believe OSAS believing in the prosperity Gospel, and enjoying money, and material things, for their wants, but then that neglects the poor and needy, which is not love, and love is the fulfilling of the law, which Paul said we establish the law.

Paul said he could have all faith as to remove mountains, but if he did not have charity then he is nothing.

Paul said if someone preaches that God blesses with money, and material things, for their wants, withdraw yourselves from them, having food, and clothing, be content.

For the love of money is the root of all evil and they have erred from the faith, for it neglects the poor and needy, which is how God created the world to operate by people loving each other, and love is the fulfilling of the law.

James pointed out charity, that it they did not have charity by caring about the poor and needy, then their faith is dead.

So Paul and James are saying the same thing to have charity, and if not then their faith does not apply, for they neglect the poor and needy, and fall short of love, which love is greater than faith.

No love, no faith.

They argue not saved by works, saved by works, all the while Paul and James are saying the same thing.

Which John said the same thing that if they do not have charity then the love of God does not dwell in them, so do not love in word and tongue, but love in deed and in truth.

So the OSAS people believe the prosperity Gospel, and go by their wants, and neglect the poor and needy, which we see in society, and their works do not matter towards their salvation, but if they do not do the works then they are not led of the Spirit.

Which in Revelation Jesus addressed the first Church and said they left their first love, and to repent, and do the first works, and addressed the fifth Church and said He did not find their works perfect before God, and to repent and do the works, or they have no salvation.

So the OSAS people would be incorrect, while the people that say they have to abstain from sins, and do works are correct, for to neglect those works you would deny being led of the Spirit.

It is not "saved by works", but being led of the Spirit and doing those works, and love, for a person not led of the Spirit is not saved, but we see among the OSAS people neglect in true love by going by their wants, and saying they do not have to do works, and saying they cannot abstain from sins.

Strike 3 for the OSAS.

Many are called, but few are chosen, so OSAS cannot be true, for if it were then God would only work in the lives of those He chose, so why would God be working in the lives of people that cannot be chosen.

If OSAS is true then consider this, and the OSAS people would have to leave the people alone, and not bother them, that believe they have to abstain from sins to have salvation.

No person can say Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

But many that believe abstain from sins, do works, believe this, so why is God working in their lives if they were not chosen in the beginning.

Peter said that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, which flesh and blood did not reveal that to him but the Father.

But many that do not believe OSAS believe this, so why is God working in their life if they were not chosen in the beginning.

Any person that says Jesus is come in the flesh is of God.

But many that do not believe OSAS believe Jesus is come in flesh.

No person comes to the Son unless the Father draws them.

But many people that do not believe OSAS accept Jesus as their Savior.

So if OSAS always saved is true, then those that do not believe OSAS, and that a person has to abstain from sins, and sin does affect their relationship with God, and to do works, would have to be saved too despite them not believing OSAS, and to have works, for God would only work in the lives of those He chose.

But we have a choice in our salvation for many are called, but few are chosen, and Jesus said not everyone that says Lord, Lord, will be saved.

But God did call the OSAS people, and working in their lives, for they confess those things, but they have to come to the truth that they can abstain from sins, and sin does affect their relationship with God, and have the proper perspective of love.

NO ! The word of G-d does not have opposing meanings.

First off there is no need to abbreviate "God" to G-d. God (Theos) is God throughout the Bible. And YHWH is LORD throughout the KJB (and other similar translations).

Both Calvinism and Arminianism are erroneous, although Calvinism is a much more serious distortion of the Gospel. So rather than think about "balancing them" stick to Bible truth.

1. All human beings are sinners, and all need the Savior.

2. Christ died for the sins of the whole world.

3. God desires the salvation of all men.

4. God commands all men everywhere to repent and obey the Gospel.

5. Those who believe are saved. Those who do not believe are damned.

6. God does not elect some for salvation and others for damnation.

7. God elects and predestines believers for perfection and glorification.

8. Therefore no genuine believer can *lose* his or her salvation.

And which doctrines do you suggest we throw out?

Well we can start with the trinity. Since we cannot fully comprehend God's makeup, let's not try to label it something simplistic. Then there is OSAS, which is sure to lead some to disobedience somewhere down the line. Besides one can walk away from salvation, if one were so inclined.

Then we should quit trying to understand predestination, and make sure we make the right choices. We should quit trying to send those, that can't quite figure out how to serve God to be tortured forever in flames. There are more, I will have to make a list sometime.

Make sure to indicate in the title for that list "Heterodox or Unorthodox Doctrines".

Predestination is always directed to one who is already saved. The saved believer in Christ is now predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son. Our destination is the adoption, which is the redemption of our bodies. This is the future destination of all who have called upon the name of the Lord.

N...,
Be less definitive until you become more informed;

"Why do we leave out the "o" G-d?
A Note About the Spelling of G-d's Name
Why do we leave out the "o" when referring to G-d?According to Jewish tradition we do not write out the Creator's name in any language, unless as part of a printed book which we know will be preserved with dignity and treated as holy. Refraining from writing out His name is a sign of reverence and awe for the Creator. If this name were to be written out and then, the paper on which it was written would become lost or destroyed, or even if it was brought into an unclean place, this would be showing disrespect and it would be a desecration of His name".

Further, for your understanding, that approach is a old Hebrew act of reverence under the old and Jewish under the new covenant.


Your 7&8...are not scriptural.

The thought of predestination is a new age religion teaching to discourage a christian from trying to live a righteous life. Hardly, if ever, mentioned in christian teachings before 1960's........why?
Pure folly and not supported by scripture. Remember G-d gives us free will to go as we wish...or live by His commandments.

Yet the prophets and apostles had no problem writing out G-O-D, or E-L-O-H-I-M OR T-H-E-O-S. And they were called "holy men of God". Do you see how false your idea is?

Only YHWH was shown as LORD, not L-D. And this conformed to the Jewish practice of substituting Adonai (Lord) for Yahweh. So I am indeed well informed about your rationale.
So you claim without a shred of biblical evidence. But here is the evidence.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. (Rom 8:29,30)

Do you understand what is being stated here? What is the purpose of predestination other than being transformed into the likeness of Christ (perfected), and if those who are justified are destined to be glorified -- according to God's will and plan -- then they cannot possibly be UN-JUSTIFIED.

Thank you for trying to get me to write G-d your way, but I respectfully will stick to my way.

I really like number 7, I have never heard that before.

Before a proper explanation of your reference....if predestination is contained....why free will? Can they both be applicable?

I believe we are all predestined. Paul said for whom he did foreknow , well in my observations nobody leaves this planet and nobody enters it without God knowing.
If we say that it is for some then will we say that some were born without free will?
It rains on the just and un just does it not?
We were never born as children of God but praise his holy righteous son who made that possible as we are reborn.
God's kindness and mercy is extended to all that believe but also extends to those that are still in bondage.
To those that love the dark the light is dimming quickly. But still there's a light.
How could God judge righteously if some had no means of escape?
The vaule that God has paid for our souls must be so high it is hard for us to comprehend.
Jesus said love your enemies, those that use you , offend you, why??? So we can look like fools? Or has God choosen to extend his grace through us? Feed those in need, clothing those that are naked, why???
Just the way I see it. For God so loved the world.