HEAVEN IS NOT YOUR HOME!

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Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,587
13,857
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#21
Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
Is that merely a comment, an attempt at refutation, or something else? Just posting a verse doesn't tell me what you're trying to accomplish. :)
 
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pottersclay

Guest
#22
Well I guess david sinned again when in pslams 23 he siad...

And I will dwell in the house of the Lord Forever.
 
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pottersclay

Guest
#23
Heaven is NOT your home. This earth is. God made this earth for mankind. And if you think heaven is a place you are missing the essence of heaven. Heaven is a way of life. Heaven is all about living in and with God.

When Jesus brought heaven to earth He did not bring one place to another place. He brought life as it is lived in heaven TO EARTH. If you DO what He teaches you can live the life of heaven HERE AND NOW! Indeed this is His goal for all believers. And this is the way this world will be saved, by establishing the kingdom of heaven ON EARTH!

God's goal is NOT to get you to heaven. That would be so easy. All He has to do is kill you. God's goal is to get heaven in you. This is a much more difficult process and takes a lifetime (and maybe more).

Becoming a disciple is the key to living the life of heaven on earth. Only through self-sacrifice and obedience will God's anointed community establish the kingdom of heaven on earth and help Jesus take this world back for God.

God could snap His finger and make everything perfect instantly. But this isn't His way. He knows we need to go through a process of growth and maturation before we can truly be a son of God. We need to learn to feel the way He feels, to reason the way He reasons, and to make wise decisions based on feelings and reasoning as He does. We need to learn love, joy, peace, patience, tolerance, long-suffering, gentleness. meekness and self control. This is what discipleship is all about, with the goal of becoming a son of God JUST LIKE JESUS!

I think you mean living in the kingdom. Jesus assended to heaven. John was caught up to heaven. The furniture in the temple was a duplicate of what's in heaven. It's a actual place. It is in another dimension. Actually the 4th dimension if I'm not mistaken.
Satan was cast out of heaven.
In the book of Genesis man was placed in the garden called Edom. Edom is a very hard word in Hebrew to discribe. Various meanings.
Among them it means presence . So the scriptures would suggest that man was created and placed in the presence of God.
Some scholars suggest some sort of portal was opened from heaven to earth in the beginning.
To support this theroy we have Jacobs ladder, eligiahs chariot and a number of other events.
Jesus said that he goes and prepares a place for us that where he is we shall be also. The pslams tell us that the father tells the son to sit at his right hand untill his enemies are
his foot stool. God's throne is in heaven according to Isaiah.
We are to store our treasurers in heaven. I could go on but........not buying it.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,095
30,216
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#24
... heaven. It's a actual place. It is in another dimension. Actually the 4th dimension if I'm not mistaken.
Some refer to time as the fourth dimension. Then there is the fifth dimension...
 
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pottersclay

Guest
#25
Some refer to time as the fourth dimension. Then there is the fifth dimension...
I stand corrected if this is so. Isn't it Paul who in discribing God's love bring in the 4th dimension and latter with John as he measures the temple. I know just enough to be dangerous lol.
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
1,222
216
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#26
Is that merely a comment, an attempt at refutation, or something else? Just posting a verse doesn't tell me what you're trying to accomplish. :)
In post #2, you claim there is no process to becoming a son of God, and that we are currently fully children of God; to which I replied with Romans 8:23 with our awaiting adoption into Gods family.
I thought the verse was self explanatory contradicting your perspective.
I have copied pasted your post #2 below Romans 8:23 so that you can see the contradiction.

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Post # 2: While I can see the point you're making, some Scripture to back up your assertions would be good.

There isn't some long "process" to becoming a child (son) of God. It is spelled out clearly in John 1:12-13 "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God."

We are fully children of God at the point of our new birth in Christ. Conformation to Christlikeness (sanctification) is a lifelong process, but the identity as children of God is established.
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
1,222
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#27
There isn't some long "process" to becoming a child (son) of God. It is spelled out clearly in John 1:12-13 "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God."
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

I see this "...to become the sons of God..." representing a future expectation, which would then corroborate and correlate with Romans 8 describing a future expectation for the manifestation of Gods children.
 
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Locoponydirtman

Guest
#28
Just from a logic stand point, why would the temperal be home rather than the eternal?
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
3,729
1,921
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#29
There will be no heaven on this earth. This earth is going to pass away. We are going to live for ever, but it wont be on this earth. We are just pilgrims passing through.

The scripture makes it clear there will be a new Heaven and earth. This earth will be destroyed. All we can really do here is try to be a light in this dark place.
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
3,729
1,921
113
#31
I used to love that song when I was a kid, but when I grew up I realized Heaven is not a place on earth and the song just ain't true...lol


(n)(n)LOL
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,587
13,857
113
#32
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

I see this "...to become the sons of God..." representing a future expectation, which would then corroborate and correlate with Romans 8 describing a future expectation for the manifestation of Gods children.
We're discussing the same issue in your thread. Please see my comments there.
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
1,222
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#33
We're discussing the same issue in your thread. Please see my comments there.
John 1:12 is future tense and conditional, not once saved always saved.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,587
13,857
113
#34
John 1:12 is future tense and conditional, not once saved always saved.
Please quote (in the other thread) where I suggested that it was "once saved always saved".
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#35
Heaven is NOT your home. This earth is.
This sounds like AN ATTACK FROM SATAN on one of the most fundamental teachings and beliefs of Christians.

I would suggest that since this opening line is pure nonsense, there is no need to waste time on this thread.

Looks like Christian forums are becoming more and more hotbeds of false doctrines.
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
1,222
216
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#36
Please quote (in the other thread) where I suggested that it was "once saved always saved".
As you have claimed there being no process in becoming adopted by God, that it is all accomplished, I then saw this as your having an OSAS perspective.
If, however, you do believe in the process of overcoming one's natural inclinations in order to come to God, then I am in accord, as many scriptures testify to this effect.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,165
1,795
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#37
I saw the title and was thinking more in terms of the afterlife and eschatology. There is a scripture that does not directly state it but that some people take to mean that our spirits go to heaven when we die. But our hope is the resurrection. That is what we wait for. And we await the New Earth. The Bible has a lot to say about the kingdom of heaven, which isn't the same thing as going to heaven.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,376
113
#38
I saw the title and was thinking more in terms of the afterlife and eschatology. There is a scripture that does not directly state it but that some people take to mean that our spirits go to heaven when we die. But our hope is the resurrection. That is what we wait for. And we await the New Earth. The Bible has a lot to say about the kingdom of heaven, which isn't the same thing as going to heaven.
Hello president,

We also have the following scripture as a promise from the Lord that He was going to the Father's house (heaven) to prepare places for all believers and that He would be coming back to get us and take us back to the Father's house:

"Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me. My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.

Since the Father's house is in heaven and Jesus went there to prepare rooms (dwelling places) for us, His promise is then to "come back" and take us to those dwelling places which are in the Father's house, which are in heaven.

The only obvious conclusion, is that since Jesus has yet to fulfill that promise, that He will be coming back for all believer's, His bride. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 is a detailed account of His return:

"Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,165
1,795
113
#39
As you have claimed there being no process in becoming adopted by God, that it is all accomplished, I then saw this as your having an OSAS perspective.
If, however, you do believe in the process of overcoming one's natural inclinations in order to come to God, then I am in accord, as many scriptures testify to this effect.
Hello president,

We also have the following scripture as a promise from the Lord that He was going to the Father's house (heaven) to prepare places for all believers and that He would be coming back to get us and take us back to the Father's house:

"Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me. My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.
I prefer the KJV "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. "

This is one of the very few verses people can point to to hint that believers may go to heaven, this and the absent from the body verse. If we look at Paul's writings, he does not say anything about going to heaven when Jesus returns, bodily, at the resurrection. Speaking of the resurrection in I Corinthians 15, he says they that are Christ's will be made alive 'at His coming', and elsewhere that the man of sin will be destroyed at the brightness of His coming. The living saints are caught up to meet the Lord in the air with the dead in Christ in I Thessalonians. In Revelation, the beast, which many interpret to be the man of sin, is dealt with at the end of the book. Presumably the church is here with Christ at that time.

But at the end of the book, the city descends to the new earth. The church is on the new earth with the Lamb.
The only obvious conclusion, is that since Jesus has yet to fulfill that promise, that He will be coming back for all believer's, His bride. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 is a detailed account of His return:

"Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words.
Notice he does not say 'in heaven.' If Jesus is coming back to earth, why would we place Him in heaven after this event? In II Thessalonians 1, He comes back while the church is still here, giving the church rest, and executing vengence on them that know not God.
 

glf1

Active member
Jun 10, 2018
314
124
43
#40
Hey! Dean... PTL, forever and ever!
To me: Heaven is New Jerusalem, which is the mother of us all, (Gal 4:26, 27) with a length, width and height that is comparable to the distance of Houston to New York; which is so high, that we'll have to have a new Earth that is a lot bigger than this one to support it. Its where the Father dwells in unapproachable light upon a great white throne that sits under an emerald rainbow and where the gold of its streets and buildings are made of pure gold that turns transparent when one looks toward the Father's direction. The Lord's presence will be the light of the whole world, even on the far side. For now, New Jerusalem is in the third heaven which is above the physical universe, just as space is above the first heaven, which I consider to be the Earth's atmosphere. Like New Jerusalem, the new heaven and the new earth will be eternal. One might even call New Jerusalem, the eternal city of light. Only a very few things will transition from this earth to the new heaven and the new earth, and that will be the Lord, angels, the faithful in their resurrection bodies, and the word of God. We'll learn to know the Lord as fully as he knows us and we'll dwell in the house of the Lord forever!
Maranatha!