Gay & Lesbian inclusivity in the Church
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"It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus" (I Corinthians 5:1-5).
This modern day lukewarm church movement is sickening to my soul. It basically says, "God, you didn't know what you were doing you racist old homophobic dolt! Now we have to fix what you so ineptly messed up!"
But what else are we to expect from this present Laodicean church?
"I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth" (Revelation 3:15-16).
This phony Christian spirit not only sickens me, but it also makes me very excited for I know that the Lord is even at the door. He told us that we would see certain things come to pass ... and they are happening all around us!
Maranatha! Even so, come Lord Jesus!
This modern day lukewarm church movement is sickening to my soul. It basically says, "God, you didn't know what you were doing you racist old homophobic dolt! Now we have to fix what you so ineptly messed up!"
But what else are we to expect from this present Laodicean church?
"I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth" (Revelation 3:15-16).
This phony Christian spirit not only sickens me, but it also makes me very excited for I know that the Lord is even at the door. He told us that we would see certain things come to pass ... and they are happening all around us!
Maranatha! Even so, come Lord Jesus!
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U
Church (ekklesia) is for believers. It has nothing to so with the fact we are all sinners.
Paul himself asked that certain people be removed from the fellowship.
The fellowship/church is not primarily a recruitment agency. Believers are to witness and preach outside of the church and new converts are then welcome.
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M
You wouldn’t like my church very much in that case. It has an evengelistic Sunday once a month. Where the congregation can invite people to hear the gospel. It also regularly puts on other evangelistic events too.
Plus new life courses, growing on courses for new Christians. In 4 years the congregation has grown so much that we have up to 500 to our first Sunday service and up to 1000 to the second service. Plus Sunday youth services of 400 teens and around 300 other children.
There aren’t Christians from other churches. They are new souls saved.
U
Yup that is church growth.
Not really what I was addressing. I was addressing the problem when people proclaim one thing and live another , the fellowship needs to deal with that, therefore someone who is practicing a certain sin even after being spoken to should not be in a fellowship.
Just know that church growth brings in many wolves in sheep clothing, and then the church really never deals with those people and therefore the mess we have today, a church that basically does not even know the simple gospel.
Not really what I was addressing. I was addressing the problem when people proclaim one thing and live another , the fellowship needs to deal with that, therefore someone who is practicing a certain sin even after being spoken to should not be in a fellowship.
Just know that church growth brings in many wolves in sheep clothing, and then the church really never deals with those people and therefore the mess we have today, a church that basically does not even know the simple gospel.
I'm not so sure about this sister. Although I get your point.
From personal experience, I heard the Gospel from my brother, although I didn't readily accept it, I did find myself going to his Church shortly thereafter.
There was a palpable difference from any other Catholic or several mainstream Protestant Churches I had been to. The Protestant ones for various functions like weddings and funerals. I grew up going to Catholic School and attending mass.
The difference is I can only describe now as having the Holy Spirit Present. So while it's true I heard the Gospel outside of the Church, I didn't truly believe and accept it til attending that Church several times.
I want others, especially those who may have been exposed to a dead church, to see one that the Holy Spirit is Present at.
Why would it be a bad thing for unbelievers to see God's Children worshiping Him, and hearing the Gospel?
From personal experience, I heard the Gospel from my brother, although I didn't readily accept it, I did find myself going to his Church shortly thereafter.
There was a palpable difference from any other Catholic or several mainstream Protestant Churches I had been to. The Protestant ones for various functions like weddings and funerals. I grew up going to Catholic School and attending mass.
The difference is I can only describe now as having the Holy Spirit Present. So while it's true I heard the Gospel outside of the Church, I didn't truly believe and accept it til attending that Church several times.
I want others, especially those who may have been exposed to a dead church, to see one that the Holy Spirit is Present at.
Why would it be a bad thing for unbelievers to see God's Children worshiping Him, and hearing the Gospel?
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U
Yes I understand this, the question as I read it is whether they should be allowed to join, which I regard as being a member.
At some point that person needs to not be living a life that is contrary to the life of a believer.
They may be saved and they may not be, but somehow we have this idea that the church does not need protection from the world. Huge mega churches have no idea who is sitting in the congregation. Sitting in a pew does not make one a believer.
Why does Jesus tell Peter to take care of his sheep, do sheep not need protection?
I think the evidence of what most churches are like is evidence that churches no longer are fulfilling their primary duty.
The model is pretty clear in the first century, the apostles took to the streets.
At some point that person needs to not be living a life that is contrary to the life of a believer.
They may be saved and they may not be, but somehow we have this idea that the church does not need protection from the world. Huge mega churches have no idea who is sitting in the congregation. Sitting in a pew does not make one a believer.
Why does Jesus tell Peter to take care of his sheep, do sheep not need protection?
I think the evidence of what most churches are like is evidence that churches no longer are fulfilling their primary duty.
The model is pretty clear in the first century, the apostles took to the streets.
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The church is a 'called out' assembly of believers. Called out from what? We are called out, separated from the world. Sodomites were not invited into the home of Lot (even though he was quite worldly) nor were his visitors required to go out and 'fellowship' with them.
Today's lukewarm Christians have a very skewed idea of what God means by purity and holiness in the church of God.
" . . . that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth" (I Timothy 3:15).
Today's lukewarm Christians have a very skewed idea of what God means by purity and holiness in the church of God.
" . . . that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth" (I Timothy 3:15).
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Just a question: Where in Scripture are the lost commanded to go to the assembly of believers to hear the gospel? The believers are to go out into the world and preach the gospel. Those that believe and are saved are to be invited to the assembly of believers to grow in their through the preaching of the word of God.
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Yes, the problem then has come where the assembly of believers start to make accommodations for the lost world to make their services more "attractive" to the world. That's a dangerous road to go down, hence, look at the modern church in the US today: Rock n Roll music, fog machines, light shows, half naked people leading worship (or wearing tights), and hip preachers trying to be cool. They create things on campus to attract the crowd.
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One of the signs of His coming. If this so-called Millennial and Gen-X generations become adults it is certainly clear that the gates of hell would have prevailed against Christ's church. Well, He ain't gonna let that happen.
The scene is thoroughly set for the Antichrist to come on the scene. Although the Tribulation is mainly intended to bring Israel to her knee in repentance -- there will still be unsaved Gentiles in the world that will need to continue to practice their 'churchianity.' Heck, some mainline denominational churches will continue on as if nothing even happened, seeing as nothing really happens in them anyway.
A lot of those preachers will still bring Reader's Digest and gardening recipes into the pulpit with them.
The scene is thoroughly set for the Antichrist to come on the scene. Although the Tribulation is mainly intended to bring Israel to her knee in repentance -- there will still be unsaved Gentiles in the world that will need to continue to practice their 'churchianity.' Heck, some mainline denominational churches will continue on as if nothing even happened, seeing as nothing really happens in them anyway.
A lot of those preachers will still bring Reader's Digest and gardening recipes into the pulpit with them.
M
Read this also and you will see why we cannot compare what happened
in the NT to today’s churches. Basically become there wasn’t any churches to
invite people to, until people were saved and churches were formed.
Also the preaching took place in public places, where a mixture of people
would have been present.
https://www.evangelismcoach.org/should-we-invite-non-believers-summary/
As I finished out my chapter through chapter re-read of the book of Acts, I
see believers and non-believers in various settings:
elements. It gets mighty confusing to look at the book of Acts and to say
say that these conversions were occurring within or outside of the gatherings.
Acts merely describes what was happening.
It does not define a how the church will function following this particular era.
The church as a gathering PLACE is in development.
The earliest glimpses in Acts shows groups of people meeting in synagogues, public
squares, and in houses. Today’s PLACES of gathering is very different than the
gatherings in the book of Acts. Most of us meet in a dedicated space or building
set apart for church meetings.
The church as a gathered PEOPLE is still a theological concept in development.
It is later spelled out in Paul’s letters.
The church gathered for the PURPOSE of a particular expression of worship is not
the same.
It does not look like the weekly gathering of God’s people for worship as we know
it in nearly any form today.
To ask the book of Acts for evidence about inviting non-believers to a church is
ultimately a practice that will fail.
As the remaining passages deal with the missionary expansion of the early Christians
there were no “churches” in these towns for the gathering of the saints They were being
created as the apostles went forth, so looking at these passages for evidence of church
practices may be pointless.
in the NT to today’s churches. Basically become there wasn’t any churches to
invite people to, until people were saved and churches were formed.
Also the preaching took place in public places, where a mixture of people
would have been present.
https://www.evangelismcoach.org/should-we-invite-non-believers-summary/
As I finished out my chapter through chapter re-read of the book of Acts, I
see believers and non-believers in various settings:
- hearing the word of God proclaimed,
- gifts of the Spirit are manifested,
- elders are chosen,
- people getting saved, etc.
elements. It gets mighty confusing to look at the book of Acts and to say
- “that’s not a church meeting” but “that assembly is a church meeting.”
- That’s not church, that is church,
- Paul’s preaching in the synagogue is outreach, but teaching in a different place is a church gathering.
say that these conversions were occurring within or outside of the gatherings.
Acts merely describes what was happening.
It does not define a how the church will function following this particular era.
The church as a gathering PLACE is in development.
The earliest glimpses in Acts shows groups of people meeting in synagogues, public
squares, and in houses. Today’s PLACES of gathering is very different than the
gatherings in the book of Acts. Most of us meet in a dedicated space or building
set apart for church meetings.
The church as a gathered PEOPLE is still a theological concept in development.
It is later spelled out in Paul’s letters.
The church gathered for the PURPOSE of a particular expression of worship is not
the same.
It does not look like the weekly gathering of God’s people for worship as we know
it in nearly any form today.
To ask the book of Acts for evidence about inviting non-believers to a church is
ultimately a practice that will fail.
As the remaining passages deal with the missionary expansion of the early Christians
there were no “churches” in these towns for the gathering of the saints They were being
created as the apostles went forth, so looking at these passages for evidence of church
practices may be pointless.
you asked if they could "Join" aka be member . Anyone can come to a church service but if you are identifying with the very sin, God saved you from instead of a new creature in Christ. You have a serious problem with Biblical understanding. If you are saved then you are not gay or whatever sexual preference one see themselves as anymore. No one cannot be a member of a church and call themselves a gay Christian that is a lie from the pit of hell.
The problem here is that there are a growing number of denominations that not only accept sodomites into the congregation as members but have them as clergy.
Of course this is not a biblical practice but it is a growing problem as the outside world does not discriminate based on actual biblical knowledge.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Of course this is not a biblical practice but it is a growing problem as the outside world does not discriminate based on actual biblical knowledge.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
U
This guy had an excellent response......
Pete Charette says
June 26, 2018 at 2:02 pm
I think the main points in this discussion are the answers to two questions:
1. What is the purpose of Church?
Ephesians 3:10: so that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places.
2. What is her chief function “when gathered?”
Ephesians 4:11-16: And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pshepherds3 and teachers,4 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood,5 to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, 14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. 15 Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, 16 from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.
I don’t see a role for unbelievers in either the purpose or her function when gathered. Inviting unbelievers en masse eventually weakens the body and blurs the lines between Christians and non-Christians. Evangelism is the work of the Church when not gathered.
Have a great day, all. Grace and peace to you.
https://www.evangelismcoach.org/should-we-invite-non-believers-summary/