Speaking in tongues

Is that what you are saying? At 73 years old I have been around groups that with the laying on of hands while praying healed the person. God given gifts like this can open an unbelievers heart to accept Jesus.

I always feel the response of Holy Spirit what I pray in the prayer language Jesus died to make available to me.

So Love is only after resurrection?!!

Paul is saying gifts cease when perfect love comes, John is saying we must be perfected in love for us to be children of God and you are saying all these only comes after resurrection.

Are you serious?

Noose, get you head out of the sand.

1 Cor. 13:13 "And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love."

Paul said these three exist (remain) now. But when in glory we won't need faith and hope for we will be at one with God. Love will last forever. It seems you are attacking gifts some of us now have. Is this in love, this attack? If you don't have or want the gift why can't you leave it be. If it is really from God, you will have to answer Him for your attacks. Nuff said!

You should notice that these people talk about their works. Works doesn't save. We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus. Since grace is a free gift no one can earn earn salvation.

Maybe i misunderstood but i don't see anything that implies complete love only comes after resurrection. Both passages (1 Cor 13 & 1 John 4) are talking about being perfected in love here on earth.

1 Cor 13:
1If I speak in the tongues a of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, b but do not have love, I gain nothing.

4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.


1 John 4:
7Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. 10This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. 11Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

13This is how we know that we live in him and he in us: He has given us of his Spirit. 14And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God. 16And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.

God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them. 17This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus. 18There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

19We love because he first loved us. 20Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen. 21And he has given us this command: Anyone who loves God must also love their brother and sister.

You get the broken record award also: These same verses were addressed in #2137 and #2166. We pointed out how these verses pointed to a completeness in the hereafter. Are you face to face with God? 1 Cor. 13:12.

Are you complete in love and living sinlessly? 1 John 4:17. Not while you have flesh, you won't.

1 John 4:
11Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

13This is how we know that we live in him and he in us: He has given us of his Spirit. 14And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God. 16And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.

God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them. 17This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus.

It is explained over and over and over. Again it is right there for you to see. Paul said when love is made complete in us, the childishness in us ceases, John has explained what perfect love is and i keep highlighting just in case you missed it.
I'll try to simplify it further for you; Love for one another is knowing God as we are known- how simple must it get?

Your attacks are proof you are not complete in love. People of faith have gifts of faith and you cold heartedly denounce those gifts. What does that tell you?

Rev 3:19 Those I love, I rebuke and discipline. Therefore be earnest and repent.

I'm not denouncing gifts just like Jesus is not going to denounce gifts in:

Matt 7:21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

These deluded Christians are trying to play the gifts card but Jesus is not taking non of that and i won't take it either. You must discern the times we are living in.
Don't mistake these as attacks, i'm trying my best not to hurt anyone yet these things must be said.

And whoever told you resurrection is in the future must be given the award for best lie. Resurrection is now and is continuous.

Please explain your thoughts on the resurrection, like do you mean that our physical bodies will not die if we are currently Resurrected?

It angers me when someone takes a verse out of context and perverts the context. Here is that verse in context!! Oops you left out what was meant.

22 Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is not for unbelievers but for believers. 23 So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and inquirers or unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 24 But if an unbeliever or an inquirer comes in while everyone is prophesying, they are convicted of sin and are brought under judgment by all, 25 as the secrets of their hearts are laid bare. So they will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, “God is really among you!”

I am not sure what is they you are saying is left out? If God convicts a unbeliever (no faith) through His word . They simply say the as the rest of the believers that fall down and worship God knowing God is really among them.

It sounds like it is what was meant. Tongues God brining prophecy in other languages other than Hebrew is a sign against those who believe not (no faith) They make prophecy to no effect by the oral traditions of men called a law of the fathers.

Making a sound and calling it some sort of secret language of God as evidence a person has the Holy Spirit is one of those oral tradition that does make the word of God's prophecy without effect

.No sign gifts. We walk by the faith that comes from hearing prophecy (God's word)

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

No, i mean, if a believer dies today, their soul is resurrected and caught up in heaven and heaven is no other place than the heart of a living believer here on earth (for this is where our Lord dwells in this new covenant). It simply means, the souls of the dead believers are immediately resurrected and they indwell the living believers. This is a continuous process until the end of age and this is what it means the dead rising first and being caught together with those that are alive.

Paul, twice mentions this; once, counts himself amongst those that are alive when the dead arise to be caught up together with him and others that are alive and in another place counts himself amongst the dead who shall rise and be caught up together with his 1st century listeners at Corinth.

1 Thess 4:
13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

2 Cor 4:
11For we who are alive are always being given over to death for Jesus’ sake, so that his life may also be revealed in our mortal body. 12 So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you.

13 It is written: “I believed; therefore I have spoken.” b Since we have that same spirit of c faith, we also believe and therefore speak, 14 because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you to himself. 15 All this is for your benefit, so that the grace that is reaching more and more people may cause thanksgiving to overflow to the glory of God.

These are letters written to 1st century people (not 21st century) who read and believed what Paul told them. Paul's doctrine was that resurrection is a continuous event and not some major event in a distant future. Not only Paul, Peter also taught the same.

The Souls of other believers live inside of Believers today? Do they affect the thoughts and consciousness?

Does each believer today have all the souls of all the previous Believers inside them or just certain ones? like one believer might have the soul of Paul while another believer has the sole of someone who died in the 4th century?

It is alluded to though not very clear:

Heb 12:1Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us,2fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3Consider him who endured such opposition from sinners, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.

And,

2 Peter 1:12 So I will always remind you of these things, even though you know them and are firmly established in the truth you now have. 13I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live in the tent of this body,14 because I know that I will soon put it aside, as our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me. 15And I will make every effort to see that after my departure you will always be able to remember these things.

And,

2 Cor 4:
11For we who are alive are always being given over to death for Jesus’ sake, so that his life may also be revealed in our mortal body. 12So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you.
13It is written: “I believed; therefore I have spoken.” b Since we have that same spirit of c faith, we also believe and therefore speak, 14because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you to himself. 15All this is for your benefit, so that the grace that is reaching more and more people may cause thanksgiving to overflow to the glory of God.

The question is, how does Paul's (apostle's) death beneficial to their listeners?
These are not clear verses that show to what extent the saints influence the living believers. About 2 Peter 1, some have argued that Peter's effort before his death will ensure that his listeners will always remember, but no one can guarantee that especially after they die yet Peter sounds convinced that his listeners will remember everything because of his efforts- he also says that they (his listeners) were already established in those things he was teaching them even before his death and he still thought it was good to keep reminding them.

IMO, Peter is saying that his efforts go well beyond his death.

But one thing i know they do is judge together with the Lord. They judge the living.



It is very hard to look at it on an individual basis because in the spiritual realm, everything is just one. The joyful heavenly assembly is one and the church, even though is made of individual people, is one body in Christ.

Psalms 103 is a very interesting Psalm- David describes his innermost parts (soul) and it includes believers.

You quoted a single verse. There is a saying you can prove anything from the Bible. It is true when single verses are used. That is why it is important to keep verses in context with the section of scripture and also compare to other areas of scripture on the same issue. If you notice I highlighted a verse from the section of where you took the single verse that completely changes the perspective of that single verse you quoted. In fact there are verses that are statements from a person attacking the concept of God. Refutation coming later. There is King Saul going to visit a witch. What was said and happened there was very evil. Context, context, context!!!

You are making a great leap that is contrary to the word of God. We are responsible for our actions. If we have others in us that goes away. What these sections of scripture are referring to is the memory about others and what they wrote not their memories.

You are making a great leap that is contrary to the word of God. We are responsible for our actions. If we have others in us that goes away. What these sections of scripture are referring to is the memory about others and what they wrote not their memories.