Calvinism vs. Arminianism?

They were newly regenerated children of God and were babes in Christ, in need of a greater faith in growing in the knowledge of God. The natural man cannot discern the spiritual gospel, even if he hears it, it is foolishness unto him. The natural does not think he needs to be saved from breaking a spiritual law that he cannot discern.

So, according to you we are regenerated before Salvation.... instead at the time of Salvation...
Can the Holy Spirit convict an unsaved person?
Why then do we need to get saved?

Keep in mind the title of the thread. He is stating the Calvinist position. Sounds like you are Arminian.

So, according to you we are regenerated before Salvation.... instead at the time of Salvation...
Can the Holy Spirit convict an unsaved person?
Why then do we need to get saved?

If you were included in those that God gave to his Son to die for their sins, and I believe most on this forum are, if they are on the forum for the right reason, Jesus paid for our (those that God gave him) sins and we are blameless, and will live in heaven with him. The bible tells us how that we were saved eternally, and most of the salvation (deliverance) scriptures are speaking of God delivering us as we repent of the disobedience to his commandments. The bible is not an instruction manual telling us how to GET ETERNALLY DELIVERED. It is an instruction book as to how God wants his children to live here on earth.

So, according to you we are regenerated before Salvation.... instead at the time of Salvation...
Can the Holy Spirit convict an unsaved person?
Why then do we need to get saved?

I think most Calvinist see regeneration and salvation happening at the same time my friend. I am in that camp. Some may see them happening separately, but not I.

It depends on whether you are Arminian or Calvinist in your beliefs. Armenianism believes we have the ability to choose when hearing the gospel message. Calvinism believes as the KJV puts it the carnal mind is enmity against God. Therefore God has to reach out and touch the person to open their mind.

We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus. Calvinists and Arminians disagree about how this takes place. Does God get involved in triggering the cause of the process or not?

We are delivered eternally by faith "OF" Jesus (Gal 2:16). We are delivered here in time by faith "IN" Jesus. I believe Eph 2: explains the process of transforming the natural man into a spiritual man, especially verse 5.

You ignore the word grace. The full definition is we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus. Grace is a free gift from God.

You are using a version of the bible that has added and taken away words from the KJV to support man's involvement in his eternal salvation. Eph 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved (delivered) "THROUGH FAITH", not "THROUGH FAITH [IN JESUS ]",

Your reliance on KJV is very misplaced. It was translated in 1611 over 400 years ago. Language changes over time. In 1611 kill meant deliberate murder.
KJV Thou shalt not kill.
NIV You shall not murder.

Mal 3:6, For I am the Lord, I change not. Rev 22:19, And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

For example, because of the changes in the English language, a number of words occur in the King James that make zero sense to most people today.

That's why Christians should invest in Strong's Exhaustive Concordance. All ambiguity will disappear once a person looks up the word and sees the context.

It is changes to the English language that modifies the KJV. Not any one person. It is 400 years old. Therefore has many issues due to the changing language and other reasons.

For example, because of the changes in the English language, a number of words occur in the King James that make zero sense to most people today. These include the following nuggets that you will find scattered here and there:

Almug
Algum
Charashim
Chode
Cracknels
Gat
Habergeon
Hosen
Kab
Ligure
Neesed
Nusings
Ouches
ring-straked
sycamyne
trow
wimples, ….
The King James translators also translated some animal names into animals that in fact we now have pretty good reason for thinking don’t actually exist:

unicorn (Deut. 33:17)
satyr (Isa 13:21);
dragon (Deut 32:33) (for serpent)
cockatrice (Iswa 11:8),
arrowsnake (Gen 49:11, in the margin).
Moreover,, there are phrases that simply don’t make sense any more to modern readers: Phrases that no longer make sense:

ouches of gold (Exod. 28:11);
collops of fat (Job 15:25);
naughty figs (Jer 24:2);
ien with (Jer. 3:2);
the ground is chapt (Jer 14:4);
brazen wall” (Jer 15:20);
rentest thy face (Jer. 4:30);
urrain of the cattle (Exod. 9:2);
And there are whole sentences that are confusing at best, virtually indecipherable (or humorous)

And Jacob sod pottage (Gen 25:29)
And Mt. Sinai was altogether on a smoke (Exoc. 19:18)
Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing (Ps. 5:6)
I trow not (Luke 17:9)
We do you to wit of the grace of God (2 Cor. 8:1)
Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels (2 Cor. 6:12)
He who letteth will let (2 Thes 2:7)
The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd (Eccles. 12:11)


Other sentences make sense, but would today be considered somewhat problematic – at least for the sacred Scripture. My favorite is the one that refers to a man who: “Pisseth against the wall:…. 1 Sam 25:22, 34, I Kings 14:10!

I prefer to start with a modern translation so I don't have the KJV 400 years of language changes to contend with.

If modern translations were based upon the traditional Hebrew and Greek texts, everyone would use them. Unfortunately, they are based upon corrupt texts, which means that they are UNRELIABLE.