Calvinism vs. Arminianism?

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ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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Yea, it was Paul's idea . . .

"For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died" (Romans 7:9).

I believe he got it from God . . .
I am interested as to what age it is that you think people come to the age of accountability? How old was Paul when he was on the road to Damascus, and was converted from serving the old law and began serving Christ?
 

Prycejosh1987

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How did it become Calvinism vs. Arminianism? What was the debate before the 15,000's or so? Were people saved before they knew they were not saved?.... Is that question plain? ...lol
I am not bothered by what either believes, i look at the context of scripture. Some people are blowing things out of proportion.
 

ForestGreenCook

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How do you harmonize 1 Timothy 2:4 and 2 Peter 3:9? No man comes to the Father but by Jesus Christ - salvation hinges on mankinds belief in Jesus Christ . . . The dream that Nebuchadnezzar had was the result of HIS worshipping other gods and demanding that others do the same and nothing that Nebuchadnezzar could do would change that except to "break off thy sins by righteousness and thine iniquities by shewing mercy to the poor; if it may be a lengthening of thy tranquility."

Did Nebuchadnezzar break of his sins? Nope - The king spake, and said, Is not this the great Babylon, THAT I HAVE BUILT for the house of the kingdom BY THE MIGHT OF MY POWER, and for the HONOR OF MY MAJESTY? . . . . PRIDE caused the destruction that came upon Nebuchadnezzar - the fulfillment of his dream.
But when those days were fulfilled, those days prophesied through his dream, his understanding returned to him and he BLESSED THE MOST HIGH, and PRAISED AND HONORED him. So, God showed Nebuchadnezzar what would happen if he didn't break off his sins by doing righteousness and his iniquities by shewing mercy to the poor via the dream he had and that is exactly what was fulfilled.


That section of scripture has to do with King Nebuchadnezzar and him only but it does relate to Deut. 30:19: I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live. Could he have chosen "to break of his sins" and change the events? Apparently so. (You will surely reap what you sow!!;))

In 1 Tim 2:4, you are interpreting "saved" (delivered) to be referring to eternal deliverance, and it is referring to a timely deliverance that the babe in Christ receives when he comes unto a knowledge of the truth.

2 Pet 3:9, 2 Pet 1:1 tells you who Peter is speaking to in 2 Pet 39, who is them that have obtained like precious faith. Peter even includes himself in his warning by using the word "us-ward".

Perish=death=separation. When a child of God commits a sin, they separate themselves from their fellowship with God, temporary, until they repent.

Deut 30:19, death= being separated from fellowship with God. life does not refer to eternal life, but that good and abundant life that the child of God can live here on earth, by following God's commandments. This also relates to the strait gate in Matt 7.
 

ForestGreenCook

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There is no such thing as "the gift to believe the Gospel", or "the gift of faith". Faith is something people choose to have, or not.

In Eph 2:8, the gift is not the faith to believe. The gift is salvation BY faith, something anyone can choose to do.

When we are born again, God gives us the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and faith is a gift of the Holy Spirit (Gal 5:22)

In Eph 2:8, faith is not mankind's faith, but is the faithfulness of Jesus going to the cross for our justification (Gal 2:16).
 

ForestGreenCook

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Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

We bear the fruit but it is God that produces the fruit.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

That is true, when God quickens us to life with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit he produces the fruit within the Holy Spirit.
 

ForestGreenCook

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God chose Christianity, not individual Christians. He wants ALL people to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and become saved (1 Tim 2:4; 2 Pet 3:9).

1 Tim 2:4, When a new born babe in Christ comes unto a knowledge of the truth, they are saved (delivered) from their ignorance of the truth. Saved, according to Greek interpretation means delivered.

If you read 2 Pet 1:1, you will find who Peter is talking to in 2 Pet 3:9, which is them that have obtained like precious faith.

Peter even includes himself in his warning by using the word "us-ward", warning them to repent when they commit a sin to regain their fellowship with God. Perish=death=a separation. When the child of God commits a sin they separate themselves from their fellowship with God, temporary, until they repent.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Good one.. I can see where Calvinists would interpret that as saying that God gives people the "gift to believe". But I believe it is wrong to interpret that one verse in that way when there are many other scriptures contradicting that understanding.

Calvinists will disagree, but I believe that since the Bible is clear that God wants all men to be saved (1 Tim 2:4), He is not willing that any should perish (2 Pet 3:9), that the "gift" in that verse is not the "gift to believe", but along with the fact that Christians choose TO believe, God has given us to suffer for Him. Standing for Christ is not always easy.

The debate over whether Calvinism is true or not will not be settled here. People have been arguing about it for centuries. But I remain absolutely convinced that Calvinism is not true, that God gave people the ability to choose. He wants people to choose Him, He does not make some love Him but not others. That's not love.

You are absolutely right, God did give mankind the freedom to choose how he wants to live his life as he sojourns here on earth, but his eternal inheritance is given by God's sovereign grace, without man's choice.
 

ForestGreenCook

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A natural man can hear the gospel and understand it well enough to choose to believe it, at which point he receives the gift of the Holy Spirit, and becomes saved.

Would you be so kind as to give me a scripture to go with your statement?
 

ForestGreenCook

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which one do you think supports that in particular?

John 3:16?

Is the "world" in John 3:16 the same world as the worlds in these scriptures, or will you agree that there are different worlds in reference?

John 15:18-19, If the world hate you, ye know it hated me before it hated you. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own; but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

John 15-20, A little while, and ye shall not see me, and again, a little while, ye shall see me. Verley, Verley, I say unto you, that ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice, and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy.